Inverted sugar vs table sugar, questions on flavor profile.

[Newtothis]

I was looking at doing a sugar wash and have been reading about inverted sugar vs regular table sugar. My question is, what are the differences in the flavor profile if any if you were do do a neutral spirit out of the wash, and does anything else change during fermentation using inverted sugar vs just plain table sugar. Thanks.

[still_stirrin]

In the end, no differences (in flavor).

Inverted sugar will ferment a little quicker because inverting the sucrose produces glucose which is slightly more “digestible” by the yeast. But, the products of fermentation of either sugar is ethanol (plus some congeners).

Invert, if you like. But it’s not a “deal breaker”.
ss

[zed255]

I've heard it said that inverting may reduce the bite some sugar washes can have. I've done it both ways and can't say for me that its worth the effort, that is I don't perceive any differences.

Yeast break up sucrose into fructose and glucose before metabolizing the simpler sugars anyhow, so your effort only saves the yeast the step they do for themselves already. That may account for the slightly faster ferment speed I've seen noted by others. As SS mentions the net result is ethanol (and CO2) plus some congeners.

Edit to redact an incorrect statement.

[Newtothis]

Read the wiki article on it and I found this to be interesting , not that it makes a difference to my previous question, but still interesting nevertheless.

“ Optical rotation

Edit: Once a sucrose solution has had some of its sucrose turned into glucose and fructose the solution is no longer said to be pure. The gradual decrease in purity of a sucrose solution as it is hydrolyzed affects a chemical property of the solution called optical rotation that can be used to figure out how much of the sucrose has been hydrolyzed and therefore whether the solution has been inverted or not.
Definition and measurement

Edit: A kind of light called plane polarized light can be shone through a sucrose solution as it is heated up for hydrolysis. Such light has an 'angle' that can be measured using a tool called a polarimeter. When such light is shone through a solution of pure sucrose it comes out the other side with a different angle than when it entered, which is proportional to both the concentration of the sugar and the length of the path of light through the solution; its angle is therefore said to be 'rotated' and how many degrees the angle has changed (the degree of its rotation or its 'optical rotation') is given a letter name,
α
\alpha (alpha). When the rotation between the angle the light has when it enters and when it exits is in the clockwise direction, the light is said to be 'rotated right' and
α
\alpha is given to have a positive angle such as 64°. When the rotation between the angle the light has when it enters and when it exits is in the counterclockwise direction, the light is said to be 'rotated left' and
α
\alpha is given a negative angle such as −39°”

[seamusm53]

Just a side note that yeast metabolize sugars to access oxygen. The sugar literally provides oxygen for the yeast to respire in an anaerobic environment.

No, the yeast do not GET the oxygen from the sugar.

Yeast do require oxygen in order to multiply - else we'd need to add ALOT more yeast. But they get what they need from the oxygen dissolved in the mash and we provide that oxygen by vigorous stirring at the beginning of the process.

Once the yeast have 'used up' that oxygen they begin the anaerobic phase of fermentation where instead of multiplying they convert the sugar into alcohol and CO2. At that point providing more oxygen with further stirring can get in the way of alcohol production though we often do push down the cap and stir it back into the mash.

[Stonecutter]

Read the wiki article on it and I found this to be interesting , not that it makes a difference to my previous question, but still interesting nevertheless.

“ Optical rotation

Edit: Once a sucrose solution has had some of its sucrose turned into glucose and fructose the solution is no longer said to be pure. The gradual decrease in purity of a sucrose solution as it is hydrolyzed affects a chemical property of the solution called optical rotation that can be used to figure out how much of the sucrose has been hydrolyzed and therefore whether the solution has been inverted or not.
Definition and measurement

Edit: A kind of light called plane polarized light can be shone through a sucrose solution as it is heated up for hydrolysis. Such light has an 'angle' that can be measured using a tool called a polarimeter. When such light is shone through a solution of pure sucrose it comes out the other side with a different angle than when it entered, which is proportional to both the concentration of the sugar and the length of the path of light through the solution; its angle is therefore said to be 'rotated' and how many degrees the angle has changed (the degree of its rotation or its 'optical rotation') is given a letter name,
α
\alpha (alpha). When the rotation between the angle the light has when it enters and when it exits is in the clockwise direction, the light is said to be 'rotated right' and
α
\alpha is given to have a positive angle such as 64°. When the rotation between the angle the light has when it enters and when it exits is in the counterclockwise direction, the light is said to be 'rotated left' and
α
\alpha is given a negative angle such as −39°”

If all that wasn’t confusing enough I once tried to delve deeper into the mysteries of light…. Richard Feynman does a pretty good job at explaining it but if you really want to make your eyes bleed here’s a link to more. https://faculty.csbsju.edu/frioux/polar ... AR-sup.pdf

[Demy]

At Hobby level I didn't notice any difference. I believe that it is worth reversing the sugar only in particular situations, perhaps for large volumes or for og at the limit (which is not recommended in any case).

[JakeB]

It's funny, I have always inverted, mostly from recommendations from the Stillit Chanel. That channel used to be informitive. Now it is entertaining, but too much marketing. Not sure I can trust all that is said there given Still Spirits sponsorship since to get good results from their equipment the first step is to throw away their instructions.

It does make sense that there would be a small difference, given that you are making less work for the yeast. I don't do much sugar anymore as I enjoy the flavor from malt extract more, but I have wondered if it really is worth it. I find it to be a small step that may make a small difference, so why not... Some do it, some don't... I don't think it adds much time, or difference in result really. Invert, don't invert, probably doesn't matter much...

[subbrew]

If all that wasn’t confusing enough I once tried to delve deeper into the mysteries of light…. Richard Feynman does a pretty good job at explaining it but if you really want to make your eyes bleed here’s a link to more. https://faculty.csbsju.edu/frioux/polar ... AR-sup.pdf

Thanks for the link, that is awesome. Feynman is one of favorite men. Highly recommend his books. For me, he makes math not just understandable but fun.

[Yummyrum]

I’m an inverter
I figure if I have to boil around 25 litres of water to make my 180 litre wash warm enough for pitching ,I might as well add the 32 kg of sugar to it , and at the same time , throw in a few teaspoons of Citric acid .

(OK I actually only add the sugar to about 15 litres of water . The the other 10 is boilded and simmered with my weekbix and all bran .)

Anyway , I’ve never done a side by side , but I’m pretty sure I have less heads with less sugar bite than I used to with just cold dissolving if sugar .