Large oil/steam jacketed boiler questions

[Sporacle]

Good point Chris wasn't too sure why he needed the exact temp

[morefog]

I'm using a hybrid system with multiple controls. When distillate gets too hot the switch turns off the boiler. When the stack temp gets too hot a different switch turns off the electrical element. I've only been doing stripping runs with this new setup, but I'm hoping the element control will be important during the spirit runs.

Apologies to OP for hijacking his thread.

[The Baker]

Switches turning off and on the element are a no-no.

You need a controller that adjusts the POWER.

Others will explain the details.

Geoff

[Saltbush Bill]

When the stack temp gets too hot a different switch turns off the electrical element.

What are you calling "the stack" do you meant the top of the column or something.
Best if we all speak the same ling here , otherwise things get dreadfully confusing very quickly.

When distillate gets too hot the switch turns off the boiler.

the wash in the boiler can only get as hot as it needs to be to boil......it cant get any hotter, in the same way that water cant boil at any hotter than 100c. You cant control temp of the boiler or wash, only how hard it boils.
You cant have things turning on and off when ever they feel like it .....it just wont work that way.

[LWTCS]

When the stack temp gets too hot a different switch turns off the electrical element.

What are you calling "the stack" do you meant the top of the column or something.
Best if we all speak the same ling here , otherwise things get dreadfully confusing very quickly.

When distillate gets too hot the switch turns off the boiler.

the wash in the boiler can only get as hot as it needs to be to boil......it cant get any hotter, in the same way that water cant boil at any hotter than 100c. You cant control temp of the boiler or wash, only how hard it boils.
You cant have things turning on and off when ever they feel like it .....it just wont work that way.

Well the caveat to that is that with oil as the heating media, you can far more easily tolerate cycling. Oil does a very nice job of maintaining heat and so the cycling has a far more spread out, delayed affect.
But you as the operator would be monitoring oils temps. Not vapor temps.
Oil is also very slow to respond to adjustments.

Not a big deal if your protocols are dialed in and you're just doing the one thing.

[jward]

Another caveat is Pulse Width Modulation(PWM). It's a technique that involves cycling the power on an off to control power. The system I use one sets the power to some fraction as a percentage and the controller turns the power on and off to represent the fractional power. This controls a boil very well. Unfortunately the monitoring amp-meter generally shows full power or no power instead of the fractional power.

One can manage the boil by turning on and off if one is controlling heating media or using PWM.

[hartmanhooch]

Although I have no experience with steam I have now completed 2 runs on my new 100l jacketed boiler. I’m running a mix of 6gal mineral and 2gal vegetable oil. When purchasing I decided to stay state-side for the boiler so I knew it was safe. Paul at ADE was a huge help and built the boiler according to my needs, the build and delivery were completed in 4 weeks and the quality is outstanding.
Although it’s true that the power adjustments are delayed and not directly proportional, I was able to successfully get through my first two tries.

[LWTCS]

How long did it take for you to come to temp?
How many watts did you throw at the kettle ti come to temp.

That kettle was not manufactured state side btw.

[hartmanhooch]

When I did the vinegar run I timed it at 90 minutes to boil with 5kw put into the oil.
And I believe that ADE does build their own boilers as I had them make mine with an additional offset 4” opening for the column when I mount the agitator in the center.

[LWTCS]

Yes I can see the weld on the cap is quite different than the other polished welds.
He modified the cap for you.

[Windy City]

When I did the vinegar run I timed it at 90 minutes to boil with 5kw put into the oil.
And I believe that ADE does build their own boilers as I had them make mine with an additional offset 4” opening for the column when I mount the agitator in the center.

Did you get a mixer for that kettle??
I have found using a jacketed kettle it makes a huge difference.

[hartmanhooch]

Yes, I have a speed controlled agitator with a 2” tri clamp mount. I used it on an angle with UJ because of the small amount of corn in the pot during distillation. When I do my first all grain in this I will set up the agitator in the middle and mount the column on the offset 4” opening.
When I drained the UJ mash out of the 2” boiler drain it went really slow through the waste hose and I scooped out what had coagulated around the bottom edges. Not looking forward to cleaning out after an on the grain run with a big all grain bill.
(And no, I didn’t have the gun basket mounted during the UJ run)

[The Booze Pipe]

I am digging deep here researching a bane-marie/jacketed boiler it looks similar to your setup. Looking to strip whiskey mashes with it, likely off the grain. The grains will get pressed dry first.
What PRV are you running/how much pressure is the boiler/jacket rated for? How long does heatup take with one 5500w element? With two elements? How does it respond to power input changes?

[Black Bull]

100L pot, about 6l of heat exchange oil in the jacket.
2 x 3500w Elements
PRV and pressure gauge are provided with the still.
never had more than 1PSI in it to date
(except the time I boiled it dry and it just puked oil out the PRV)
Just under an hour from switch on to fore shots with wash at about 88 degrees C
I switch second element off most of the time when I start producing distillate.

[The Booze Pipe]

100L pot, about 6l of heat exchange oil in the jacket.
2 x 3500w Elements
PRV and pressure gauge are provided with the still.
never had more than 1PSI in it to date
(except the time I boiled it dry and it just puked oil out the PRV)
Just under an hour from switch on to fore shots with wash at about 88 degrees C
I switch second element off most of the time when I start producing distillate.
20240531_173341.jpg

Thats a nice setup! How do you like the controller? I thought I'd add that on as well.

[Black Bull]

It works well enough, fine control is a bit lacking though.
I'm going to rebuild/Modify the controller and add a proper digital thermostat as a bit of a fail safe,
and to make temperature control a bit easier

[The Booze Pipe]

It works well enough, fine control is a bit lacking though.
I'm going to rebuild/Modify the controller and add a proper digital thermostat as a bit of a fail safe,
and to make temperature control a bit easier

Are you running the two 3kw elements or 5500w ? 6000 watts seems a little low for heat up, but maybe its enough for the steam jacket?

[Black Bull]

they're 3500w elements, so 7000w total, running on 240v
Last run a I dodgied up a thermocouple to try and monitor what the jacket temp was doing.

with roughly a 100l charge and 2 elements Heating til production started then
switch back to one kept the jacket within a few degrees of the wash.
Whereas two elements on 100% and the jacket temp easily ran away and got as high as 110c,
at which point I was having trouble controlling the offtake and shut the second element down again.

A few have mentioned that the pot would be slow to react to power input changes,
but as long as it's not overpowered it seems to react fairly quickly.

Additionally agitator speed also makes a difference to the boil rate.
I assume this is because it promotes better heat transfer to the wash