Settling on a design. 3" ccvm?

[WildonionAB]

Howdy everyone. Doing my best to absorb as much information as possible but it's a lot.

I going to build a 3" ccvm SS column with copper packing to a 2" shotgun condenser with 3/8 tubes( I think 7 tubes).
A SS 50L keg will be my boiler and I will heat it with a Propane burner.

Mostly going to run it as a pot still but like the modular idea so I can run it as a Reflux column if I want.

[bunny]

Hi,
You are at a very critical point in your hobby.
Decisions you make now will affect your total satisfaction with the hobby.

How long have you been reading?

What spirits would you like to make?

What quantity would you like to produce? Why?

What has set you off in the direction of a 3" anything?

If you prefer flavored spirits, build a pot still with your keg.

If and when you should decide to try neutral, you can always clamp a Boka to your keg.

You would be amazed at just how many BokaWankers are hiding here. (peek-a-boo )

Good Luck, and Good Reading

[Deplorable]

Your plan is sound for a flexible modular still.
I'd add that you only need (4) 1/2" tubes in that shotgun shell. It'll knock down anything you can throw at it.

[WildonionAB]

Been reading for several weeks now.
Rum, Bourbon/ single malts mostly but would like to make Gin/Vodka for making cocktails for the wife and her friends. But mostly Rum and whiskey.
Quantity = couple gallon finished product per run. I'd like a bit of young spirit to slake our immediate thirst and the rest will age for hopefully a few years. I'm under no impression that good spirits happen quickly.

Why 3"? To cut down on total time required for a spirit run. If I build the boiler with a 3" outlet I can put a reducer to 2" very easily without any restrictions but from what I read a 3" to 2" increases vapor speed(although the consequences appear to be minimal according to the CCVM thread I'm read through. )

[ecir54]

Sounds like he has a good plan to me with a modular design.

[WildonionAB]

Your plan is sound for a flexible modular still.
I'd add that you only need (4) 1/2" tubes in that shotgun shell. It'll knock down anything you can throw at it.

I haven't found a calculator for the shotgun( haven't looked for one yet) The reason I was thinking 3/8 tubes vs 1/2" was that I watched "Still It" on YouTube and he stuffed 5 (1/2" ) into a 2" shotgun but it seemed difficult, so my brain told me 3/8 would be easier to install because I could add extra tubes to make up the difference in diameter.
But I don't know, lol I have a tendency to overbuild my projects.

[bunny]

I recommend you re-evaluate your current choice of propane to heat your keg. Most find switching to electric, if doable, one of the best things they have done to simplify their operation. If you cannot go electric, ditch the shotgun idea and go for a big Liebig such as yummyrum's to keep your product and fumes further away from the fire.

While I'm at it, (I will say it out loud). If you insist on VM, get yourself a ball valve and build a VM. I don't know anyone with a VM who would trade theirs for a CCVM. Of course this is just my opinion.

[Salt Must Flow]

Your plan is sound for a flexible modular still.
I'd add that you only need (4) 1/2" tubes in that shotgun shell. It'll knock down anything you can throw at it.

I haven't found a calculator for the shotgun( haven't looked for one yet) The reason I was thinking 3/8 tubes vs 1/2" was that I watched "Still It" on YouTube and he stuffed 5 (1/2" ) into a 2" shotgun but it seemed difficult, so my brain told me 3/8 would be easier to install because I could add extra tubes to make up the difference in diameter.
But I don't know, lol I have a tendency to overbuild my projects.

I absolutely agree with bunny. Electric really is the way to go and a LONG Liebig is the right idea for propane.

Here's the condenser calculator. Compare how many inches of 1/2" is required vs 3/8". But when entering the values into the calculator, you need to enter the actual OD outer dimension of the pipe, not the ID inner dimension. 1/2" is 0.625" OD and 3/8" is 0.5" OD.

To knock down 5500W, you'll find that 1/2" (0.625" 15.875mm OD) pipe needs 108" of pipe. Using 4 pipes would require at least a 27" long shotgun condenser (water jacket).

To knock down 5500W, you'll find that 3/8" (0.5" 12.7mm OD) pipe needs 135". Using 7 pipes would require at least a 19.3" long shotgun condenser (water jacket). Now if you made this shotgun condenser approx 27" long, it would be significantly more efficient per inch of length and use significantly less water in comparison to the other one. This shotgun condenser for instance follows similar dimensions (20" long) that the calculator recommends (stainless instead of copper though).

Using four 1/2" (0.625" 15.875mm OD) pipes is certainly easier than seven 3/8" (0.5" 12.7mm OD) pipes. It doesn't matter which way you go as long as you follow the calculator and know the limitations.

When I bought 2" copper pipe, I bought a 5' stick. I built two shotguns and made the very most use I could out of the materials. I think it was worth the effort.

I use one shotgun condenser for stripping runs to knock down one element 5500W at full power. I connect both together for stripping runs to knock down two 5500W elements at full power. For spirit runs I use one shotgun condenser and run only enough water through it to not see air bubbles in the water line.

[WildonionAB]

I recommend you re-evaluate your current choice of propane to heat your keg. Most find switching to electric, if doable, one of the best things they have done to simplify their operation. If you cannot go electric, ditch the shotgun idea and go for a big Liebig such as yummyrum's to keep your product and fumes further away from the fire.

While I'm at it, (I will say it out loud). If you insist on VM, get yourself a ball valve and build a VM. I don't know anyone with a VM who would trade theirs for a CCVM. Of course this is just my opinion.

The propane has to stay. No way to use 240V out at the farm where we will run it.
I will keep the flame hazard in mind. I will route it well away and with good wind direction.

[kimbodious]

I started with a CM then went briefly to VM but am happily settled with my CCVM.
Check the links below for pictures of my modular design stills.

[Yummyrum]

Why 3"? To cut down on total time required for a spirit run.

This will only be applicable when you are using the CCVM to make Nuetral .

When used in Pot still mode ( which from the sound of things you will be mostly be using it for IE , making Rum and Whiskey ) 3” will not make a scrap of difference to how fast you can run it .

[WildonionAB]

Why 3"? To cut down on total time required for a spirit run.

This will only be applicable when you are using the CCVM to make Nuetral .

When used in Pot still mode ( which from the sound of things you will be mostly be using it for IE , making Rum and Whiskey ) 3” will not make a scrap of difference to how fast you can run it .

Judging by your Username you have much useful information!
So why does the 3" not help with a pot still?
I thought that vapor speed was critical with either pot or reflux column?
With running as a pot still as long as my condenser is working properly I won't need to worry.
So the modular design is what I need. For the rare occasion when I want neutral I will run the 3" column with packing and majority of the time a short riser to the condenser is probably all I need for flavourful spirits.

[Saltbush Bill]

There is nothing wrong with running on Propane / gas.......it works just fine, I been using it for 10 years and am in no hurry to change.
A lot of other long term distillers I know use gas as well.
Do use a liebig to get your end product away from the flames......a nice long one.

[WildonionAB]

There is nothing wrong with running on Propane / gas.......it works just fine, I been using it for 10 years and am in no hurry to change.
A lot of other long term distillers I know use gas as well.
Do use a liebig to get your end product away from the flames......a nice long one.

I was thinking about the outlet from the shotgun providing the length away from the flames vs a really long Liebeg.
I want to build the shotgun because I like how difficult it is to build.

[shadylane]

I going to build a 3" ccvm SS column with copper packing to a 2" shotgun condenser
A SS 50L keg will be my boiler and I will heat it with a Propane burner.

Mostly going to run it as a pot still but like the modular idea so I can run it as a Reflux column if I want.

Modular is a good Idea.
When heating with gas, I prefer a leibig instead of a shotgun.

[shadylane]

I was thinking about the outlet from the shotgun providing the length away from the flames vs a really long Liebeg.
I want to build the shotgun because I like how difficult it is to build.

Here's something I built awhile back.
It's halfway between a liebig and shotgun.

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=49639

[Twisted Brick]

Kudos to you for starting with a keg boiler. There is no problem connecting a 3" riser/column to a 2" keg. If you do decide to have a ferrule welded on, you might consider going larger than 3" as it would allow you to get an arm inside and facilitates cleaning. The costs of a reducer/tri-clamp will increase though.

Your plan to build a modular CCVM is a popular one due to its operational and build simplicity while avoiding paying for a costly valve. My kit (below) is like what you are planning, and gets used 90% for whiskies and 10% vodka/neutrals.

Your plan is sound for a flexible modular still.
I'd add that you only need (4) 1/2" tubes in that shotgun shell. It'll knock down anything you can throw at it.

If I remember correctly, Deplorable built his shotty with the same specs as mine (21" x 4 x 1/2") installing the copper end plates I make for members. Mine doesn't blink when condensing vapor from 40k NG btu's (11kw) while Deplorable posted that he could not overpower his with 100,000btu's on propane. Like SBB, I love running gas. I once contemplated (and one day may) switching to electricity, but I read of a scottish distillery who ripped out its new steam system and re-installed gas because of flavors nuances lost in it's single malts.

BTW, don't get too close to the HD condenser calculator. Over the years members have posted a number of inaccuracies they've found with it and is regarded as a tool best for ballpark estimates. There has been interest shown in improving it, however.

Below are a few links that may be helpful to you in designing your shotty. For those less-inclined, a shotty build appears problematic, but to those saavy to give it a go, it really isn't difficult. Heaven knows, I've built enough of them. If you have any questions along the way, just holler and I'll help where I can.

Shotgun & deph. tube & baffle design guidelines

Shotgun Proportions

7-Tube Shotgun Epic Fail

Twisted Brick

[WildonionAB]

I was thinking about the outlet from the shotgun providing the length away from the flames vs a really long Liebeg.
I want to build the shotgun because I like how difficult it is to build.

Here's something I built awhile back.
It's halfway between a liebig and shotgun.

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=49639

Thanks Shady. Some ideas for me to think about

[DasBeast007]

Sounds a lot like a DAD300/kimbodious setup to name a few. I'm using the same except it's usually in a 2" pot still mode. For CCVM I do switch over to a 3" as you are thinking. Every run has been on propane and I only own a shotgun condenser for my PC. The RC was made following DAD300's suggestions.

In pot still mode: I haven't seen much difference between the 2 or the 3" riser, for stripping runs but spirit runs are so slow you'll never overload the 2" riser. The 3" (plus a shotgun) are going to weight more...so it's easier for me to setup in 2".

In CCVM mode: the 3" will let you run product faster...but you'll need adequate heat and a LOT of product for that boiler. Generally, I only run low wines through the CCVM (not to say you can't run a wash).

All that said, 95% of my runs are on the pot still.

[shadylane]

Before I forget again.
On a CCVM the reflux condenser will be knocking down the majority of the vapor.
That means a big product condenser isn't as important as on a Potstill or CM.

[WildonionAB]

Kudos to you for starting with a keg boiler. There is no problem connecting a 3" riser/column to a 2" keg. If you do decide to have a ferrule welded on, you might consider going larger than 3" as it would allow you to get an arm inside and facilitates cleaning. The costs of a reducer/tri-clamp will increase though.

Your plan to build a modular CCVM is a popular one due to its operational and build simplicity while avoiding paying for a costly valve. My kit (below) is like what you are planning, and gets used 90% for whiskies and 10% vodka/neutrals.

Your plan is sound for a flexible modular still.
I'd add that you only need (4) 1/2" tubes in that shotgun shell. It'll knock down anything you can throw at it.

If I remember correctly, Deplorable built his shotty with the same specs as mine (21" x 4 x 1/2") installing the copper end plates I make for members. Mine doesn't blink when condensing vapor from 40k NG btu's (11kw) while Deplorable posted that he could not overpower his with 100,000btu's on propane. Like SBB, I love running gas. I once contemplated (and one day may) switching to electricity, but I read of a scottish distillery who ripped out its new steam system and re-installed gas because of flavors nuances lost in it's single malts.

BTW, don't get too close to the HD condenser calculator. Over the years members have posted a number of inaccuracies they've found with it and is regarded as a tool best for ballpark estimates. There has been interest shown in improving it, however.

Below are a few links that may be helpful to you in designing your shotty. For those less-inclined, a shotty build appears problematic, but to those saavy to give it a go, it really isn't difficult. Heaven knows, I've built enough of them. If you have any questions along the way, just holler and I'll help where I can.

Shotgun & deph. tube & baffle design guidelines

Shotgun Proportions

7-Tube Shotgun Epic Fail

Twisted Brick

I'm struggling to find posts with people running a boiler using a gas heat source. What words should I be searching?
As electric isn't an option I want to check out what others are doin so I don't scorch my washes(or get hurt).

[shadylane]

I'm struggling to find posts with people running a boiler using a gas heat source. What words should I be searching?

There's a section of the forum just for gas heat.
viewforum.php?f=86

[WildonionAB]

I'm struggling to find posts with people running a boiler using a gas heat source. What words should I be searching?

There's a section of the forum just for gas heat.
viewforum.php?f=86

Oh FFS. I didn't see that section. Lol oops

[Deplorable]

Clear your wash before you run it, or don't let it set in the boiler light enough to settle before running it and you won't scorch.
Unless you plan to distill on grain, or with a lot of solids it's pretty much a non issue.
My experience, while admittedly limited to less than 2 dozen ferments, has been that a cleared wash gives you a better tasting finished product.
Keep the solids out of the boiler and take a conservative approach to heat up and you'll avoid a scorch. I've run propane, and electric, and the only scorch I've ever had was when I ran a really murky wash I should have let settle, but I got greedy and was in a hurry. 2 rules in this hobby that will bite you every time.

[Twisted Brick]

I'm struggling to find posts with people running a boiler using a gas heat source. What words should I be searching?
As electric isn't an option I want to check out what others are doin so I don't scorch my washes(or get hurt).

What Deplorable said. HTH.

homedistiller: gas burners

homedistiller: propane

homedistiller: gas vs electricity

[WildonionAB]

Much appreciated guys!
So the keg will have 2 openings. A 2"(which it comes with) and I'm putting a 4" as well. The 4" will be a fill/drain and will have a see through cap(so I can watch for excess foaming). It will be TIG welded on.
I'm going to stick with the shotgun just because I want to build one and will make sure it dispenses product a safe distance away.
The riser will be copper with Tri clamp ends brazed on and the column will be 36" stainless with come kind of copper scrubber in it.

[Sporacle]

and the column will be 36" stainless with come kind of copper scrubber in it.

is your column going to be 36 inches total to height to take off point for a 3 inch CCVM?

[WildonionAB]

and the column will be 36" stainless with come kind of copper scrubber in it.

is your column going to be 36 inches total to height to take off point for a 3 inch CCVM?

36" to the bottom of the Tee. I don't have the measurements but I'd assume it would be close to 40" at the takeoff. From what I read that is enough length. Packed with SPP or something similar.

[Tummydoc]

Flip the keg, use the 2 inch sanke (now on the bottom) for a drain. It's a PITA emptying a boiler without a drain and you'll have to disassemble the column to empty it if you don't have a drain.

[bunny]

Flip the keg, use the 2 inch sanke (now on the bottom) for a drain. It's a PITA emptying a boiler without a drain and you'll have to disassemble the column to empty it if you don't have a drain.

This is very true, however, putting the drain into the propane flames doesn't sound like a good idea to me.