Reflux as pot?

[Landlocked Islander]

Hey there have a reflux column still that I’m hoping to use as pot still for a batch of whisky in the near future. I’m curious if I’m better off just removing the packing from the column and not using cooling at top of head or removing column entirely and just condensing in condenser. Hers a pic of second option for clarity’s sake. Thanks for thoughts. Appreciate the forum!



So that’s without the column in the middle
[IMG]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202202 ... 962a4b.jpg[/IMG]

[Bushman]

Your picture did not post but a picture would help. If you plan to reflux then your not using it as a pot still, if your not refluxing and leaving the packing in then you will get what is called passive reflux. The reason we need a picture is if you have a VM and it is open at the top then it would be very difficult to use it as a pot still. Again it’s hard to add information without a picture.

[still_stirrin]

It’s a old fashion concentric jacketed CM style reflux condenser. As you show, omitting the column and packing and not cooling the RC, you’ll have a basic potstill. So, it’ll work as you’ve desired for a whiskey or full flavored run.

Oh, and don’t post photos on an external drive (tapatalk, for example). Post properly resized photos on this website. They need to be resized to no more than 800 pixels an any side. There’s an attachment tab below your test input block.

And another thing, we don’t need Tapatalk advertisement on the website either, so please turn that signature line off. Thanks.
ss

[Bushman]

Missed the link!

[Landlocked Islander]

It’s a old fashion concentric jacketed CM style reflux condenser. As you show, omitting the column and packing and not cooling the RC, you’ll have a basic potstill. So, it’ll work as you’ve desired for a whiskey or full flavored run.

Thanks for the feedback I assume my picture showed up then? I see it on my post so wondering if others don’t.


Oh, and don’t post photos on an external drive (tapatalk, for example). Post properly resized photos on this website. They need to be resized to no more than 800 pixels an any side.

So you’d rather I don’t use Tapatalk as a way of accessing and posting on the forum or just for posting pictures?
Could you let me know why it matters?



There’s an attachment tab below your test input block.

So if I attach file it works better than if I attach photo through app?


And another thing, we don’t need Tapatalk advertisement on the website either, so please turn that signature line off. Thanks.


Not sure how to do this but I’ll give it a look.




Thanks for response.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Landlocked Islander]

Missed the link!

Still?

[Salt Must Flow]

Keep the copper in the vapor path. Leave that reflux condenser empty (no running water) and it will serve just fine as a basic pot still.

[Landlocked Islander]

Thanks guys. Just add the copper in vapor path with perforated plate or just on its own? Don’t want it dropping into boiler.

[Salt Must Flow]

You'll need something to support the copper mesh from falling into the boiler. I assume whatever that still came with to support the copper mesh will work.

[Landlocked Islander]

You'll need something to support the copper mesh from falling into the boiler. I assume whatever that still came with to support the copper mesh will work.

Ok great. Ya there’s a plate I can add. Sure appreciate the responses guys. I’ll let ya know how it goes!

[The Baker]

Picture worked okay for me.

Geoff

[elbono]

Not sure how to do this but I’ll give it a look.

Thanks for response.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=74028

[still_stirrin]

Here you go, LLI:

CM w/o column

The disadvantage for photos posted on external servers is that they may not remain over time. And then, the discussion in your thread can become worthless without the photo. So, posting on the HD website server will sustain over time with the thread. But, since pixel size consumes server space, the website requires the photos to be no larger than 800 x 800 pixels.
ss

[still_stirrin]

Edited to add:

The vapor tube to your product condenser may be adequately sized if you’re running a high reflux run. But, if you’re trying to run this stillhead as a potstill, your throughput (vapor production rate) will be limited by that small vapor tube. A larger condenser with a larger vapor tube would be a wise investment should you plan on a lot of full flavored spirits. Ditto for using the head for stripping runs too.
ss

p.s. - that plug on your heat element is limited to 15 amps. I hope the rest of your electrical system is properly designed. A 15 amp receptacle will limit the amount of power you can use. Be aware … be safe!

[Landlocked Islander]

Edited to add:

The vapor tube to your product condenser may be adequately sized if you’re running a high reflux run. But, if you’re trying to run this stillhead as a potstill, your throughput (vapor production rate) will be limited by that small vapor tube. A larger condenser with a larger vapor tube would be a wise investment should you plan on a lot of full flavored spirits. Ditto for using the head for stripping runs too.
ss

p.s. - that plug on your heat element is limited to 15 amps. I hope the rest of your electrical system is properly designed. A 15 amp receptacle will limit the amount of power you can use. Be aware … be safe!

Thanks man appreciate the info. I’ll be using propane as a heat source not that element but thanks for pointing it out just the same! As for vapor tube I will definitely look into making a larger one if I get into full flavors. I suspect I will.

[Landlocked Islander]

So I did my first stripping run!
Just thought I’d post some of my notes I took here and if someone has some thoughts or recommendations I’m thankful for it. So I had a wash of ujssm wash( litres of fluid. ) from that I filtered 24 litres into 50 gallon boiler seen above. I kept and discarded the first 200 ml and rest went into one collection vessel for spirit run later.

A couple questions.
Do you guys start your condenser as soon as you apply heat? Or wait for Vapor to show up then cool? This is what I did.

What temps is your distillate when it comes out? I measured ,one at one poin5 md it was 110 f. This see,s hot to me so I wonder if I need to reduce heat to boiler since condenser may mot be keeping up.

I took notes of how long and what abv distillate was coming out and tasted and touched it all along the way. I burnt it on spoon and on plate while I could also.
Here are notes from run.

First drops at 16 min. Then pouring two min later
Turned down heat

800ml collected at 33 min
At 33 min 54%
Dumped another 800ml at 42 min
52%abv
Another 800 at 50 min still was reaching 90• Celsius
At 44% abv
Dumped another 800ml at 1 hr
Distillate coming out at 110 f
At 36%
Dumped another 800ml at 1:10hr min
At 32% abv
Dumped another 800ml at 1 hr 19 min
At 29% abv
Dumped another 800 at 1 hr 31 min
18%
Dumped 500 at 1 hr 38 min
14%


Entire mix was at 40% total of 6.1 liters


Are there other things I should be recording along the way to help me learn?

Thanks a lot for all the guidance. Had a great time and second gen of ujssm is already bubbling nicely.

[subbrew]

So I did my first stripping run!
Just thought I’d post some of my notes I took here and if someone has some thoughts or recommendations I’m thankful for it. So I had a wash of ujssm wash( litres of fluid. ) from that I filtered 24 litres into 50 gallon boiler seen above. I kept and discarded the first 200 ml and rest went into one collection vessel for spirit run later.

A couple questions.
Do you guys start your condenser as soon as you apply heat? Or wait for Vapor to show up then cool? This is what I did.

What temps is your distillate when it comes out? I measured ,one at one poin5 md it was 110 f. This see,s hot to me so I wonder if I need to reduce heat to boiler since condenser may mot be keeping up.

I took notes of how long and what abv distillate was coming out and tasted and touched it all along the way. I burnt it on spoon and on plate while I could also.
Here are notes from run.

First drops at 16 min. Then pouring two min later
Turned down heat

800ml collected at 33 min
At 33 min 54%
Dumped another 800ml at 42 min
52%abv
Another 800 at 50 min still was reaching 90• Celsius
At 44% abv
Dumped another 800ml at 1 hr
Distillate coming out at 110 f
At 36%
Dumped another 800ml at 1:10hr min
At 32% abv
Dumped another 800ml at 1 hr 19 min
At 29% abv
Dumped another 800 at 1 hr 31 min
18%
Dumped 500 at 1 hr 38 min
14%


Entire mix was at 40% total of 6.1 liters


Are there other things I should be recording along the way to help me learn?

Thanks a lot for all the guidance. Had a great time and second gen of ujssm is already bubbling nicely.

Some thoughts:

As for putting water to the condenser I usually plug in the still and then assemble the head and put water to the condenser. I have water running well before the riser heats up.

I use a 55 gallon barrel and a pond pump for cooling so my distillate temp varies over the run and with the weather as the water temp varies. I try to adjust the water flow to keep it about 60 to 70F. But cold water in the winter will be colder. End of run in warmer weather will be much warmer. Your condenser is limiting you so for a stripping run I would run as fast as I can even if the output is 100f, as long as no vapor is leaving the condenser.

Which brings me to the last. I record similar numbers to yours to help me understand. Looking at your numbers they look Ok, you did level out a bit in the middle. Your abv numbers are falling in a pretty linear fashion which is good for a stripping run. Spirit run will hold higher and then fall off faster at the end. Due to leveling in the middle you have a higher ABV for your low wines than I like for flavor. I want my low wines to end up closer to 28 or 30%. At 40% you were leaving some flavor in the pot.

Just for comparison of what you might do with a larger condenser, when running 4500w, I pull 6 cups, so just short of 1500 ml every 9 minutes at the start and slows to every 11 minutes by the time I am hitting 8% at the spout. But my numbers are similar to yours, starting in mid 50s for the first jar and dropping about 8 points per jar after that. I don't get the middle part leveling you had. That is starting with a 10 to 12 gallon charge. I end up with 2.6 to 3 gallons of low wines at 30% starting with about an 8% wash/mash.

[still_stirrin]

So I did my first stripping run! … So I had a wash of ujssm wash( litres of fluid. ) from that I filtered 24 litres into 50 gallon boiler seen above…

Ooops … I think that’s a typo ‘cuz judging from your photo I estimate your boiler at 10 to 12 gallons. No???

Do you guys start your condenser as soon as you apply heat? Or wait for Vapor to show up then cool? This is what I did.

Neither. I fill the product condenser when I start the heat (electric elements in my boiler) and then shut it off. My boiler will take 90 minutes to produce on 10 to 12 gallons of wash, so I don’t need to waste water during this time. Filling the condenser will condense the highly volatile foreshots when they finally make their way to the pc. When it first starts to drip, then I start the water flow to the pc, adjusting the flow to a minimum to match the heat input and product knockdown. With the shotgun product condenser, it doesn’t take much water flow to do the job.

What temps is your distillate when it comes out? I measured ,one at one poin5 md it was 110 f. This see,s hot to me so I wonder if I need to reduce heat to boiler since condenser may mot be keeping up.

Ideally, you’d want the condensate (product/low wines) to come out at the calibration temperature of your Proof & Traille hydrometer. But 70*F is good. If you’re discharging at a cooler temperature, your measurement will read lower than actual proof. But if your product is coming out warmer than the calibration temperature, your hydrometer will read with a higher proof. And at 110*F, you have a lot of temperature correction to do.

I took notes of how long and what abv distillate was coming out and tasted and touched it all along the way. I burnt it on spoon and on plate while I could also.

Novel idea. But, flaming your product, especially on a stripping run, doesn’t make much sense. If you have to do it, be careful so you don’t burn yourself. I don’t recommend flaming a spirit even “just for fun”.

Are there other things I should be recording along the way to help me learn?

If you feel compelled to measure a temperature, measure the water exit temperature from the product condenser. If it’s warm to the touch (110-125*F) then you’re not wasting water and you’ve balanced the heat input/vapor production rate. But you don’t need a thermometer to do this … just touch the pc at the vapor inlet (it’ll be very hot), and touch the water outlet and it should be quite warm to the touch. It won’t be scalding, but warm like hot water from a faucet.

Again, looking at the photo of your rig, I suspect the limiting factor is your product condenser, certainly not the riser diameter (vapor speed limitations). The small vapor tube to the pc will limit flow and accelerate the vapor speed. That would be the first modification I’d suggest.

So, how’s it feel to get the first strip run behind you?
ss

[Landlocked Islander]

Thanks for all the feedback!
Yes 50litre boiler lol.

And I coolers the low wines before measuring abv as I was aware that 110 was too hot.

My assumption was that cooler is better for the condenser. Is this incorrect? I filled a keg with cold water then circulated that with small pump. I did not it heat and so exchanged some cold for warm but I found that unless I had condenser quite cool to the touch I would see vapor in collection jar from low wines.

I do have a column with 5 sight glass ports that I. Ould put on before condenser. It’s about 30” tall and 3 “ diameter. If I did this I was worried I would get too much reflux and lose out on flavor. Am I wrong in that assumption?

If I added column but didn’t add too much copper mesh would I still get a lot of reflux?

Having a run behind me feels awesome and I just can’t wait to run my second gen. Should be a few more days but it’s bubbling nicely at the moment.
Thanks again!

[rubberduck71]

More experienced folks to please weigh in on my comments in blue below if I stray from good advice:

My assumption was that cooler is better for the condenser. Is this incorrect? I filled a keg with cold water then circulated that with small pump. I did not it heat and so exchanged some cold for warm but I found that unless I had condenser quite cool to the touch I would see vapor in collection jar from low wines.
"Cooler" is a relative term. You definitely don't want your condenser water to get too hot, but you don't need to go crazy with cooling it either. I use a couple gallon apple juice jugs with frozen water in a 15 gal storage bin filled a little over halfway with room temp water. I go through ~4-10 of them depending on length of run 3-12 hrs

I do have a column with 5 sight glass ports that I. Ould put on before condenser. It’s about 30” tall and 3 “ diameter. If I did this I was worried I would get too much reflux and lose out on flavor. Am I wrong in that assumption?

If I added column but didn’t add too much copper mesh would I still get a lot of reflux?
I would say go ahead & add the column & throw a couple rolled up copper mesh rolls in 2 or 3 of them. Since your rig is all stainless, the copper will help filter out some unwanted impurities, but won't add much if at all reflux since your dephlag is not in use.

I you haven't already, build up 3 stripping runs worth of low wines & charge your boiler with them. For me, stripping runs are 3-3.5 hrs start to finish, and then the spirit is anywhere from 8-12 hrs.