General atmosphere of forum

[Rrmuf]

I'm only going on two years here and can say the forum has been very helpful, and I appreciate the time people take to help me along.

YES, sometimes I have faced a rebuke.
YES, sometimes it is short.
YES, there was always a valid point behind it.

I can only point to ONE solitary response that I would say was completely inappropriate (from someone with less time here than me!) where they descended to accusing me of being a "Trudeau supporter" ... so some kind of political insult? I still don't know what I said to provoke this. Blocked. Done. Move on.

BL: I would rather develop a thick skin than shitty spirits.

[NZChris]

There wasn't an internet as we know it today when I did my initial research into distilling, it was done in university libraries. Count yourself lucky that so much information is easily available when you started.

I suggest that you quickly hone your skills for searching the forum, internet and archives, because there might be some reluctance amongst the old hands for answering your questions from now on.

[The Baker]

Seen lots of people come and go in my fifteen years here
and five or ten in earlier forums.

Listening to some nice calming classical music.

Geoff

[Corn Cracker]

I have noticed there are several new members daily. There's a f.b page that has a LOT of silly questions and this site gets mentioned as a good place to learn the craft. What is not mentioned is this isn't an elementary school, kindergarten level hobbyist come to this highschool level forum asking silly questions, doing stupid shit that ain't safe and get butt hurt when called out. There are some gruff "professors" here as there are anywhere, look at those guys as your grandpa that don't put up with nonsense, you don't back out of the fam because grandpa called you out in front of everyone.

Do your research, ask about what you don't understand from your research and it's not that hard to get along here.

Or hook up with that f.b page and watch jars being shook and "can i fermint fruity pebbles syrup, i bought 5 gallons of it" ridiculous posts.

[habaz]

Come on guys dont be so sensitive. Old boys can be tough sometimes. I see this as a pay back for what i get from them.

If somebody complains when we push a little hard while playing football we say "come on this is a men's game, dont cry like little girl". So moonshine is a men's hobby.

And all these old guys deserve any kind of respect and tolerans for their valuable know how and experience they share with us. Nothing is free!

[8Ball]

Hello everyone and especially the PIC,

I would like to appeal to something that has been brought up repeatedly yes, enough already!!by former members, friends and current members, outside sources, and as of today, myself with first hand experience. While these forums are an incredible source of information, and often, camaraderie, it increasingly appears to be simultaneously censorial in nature, or at the very least a good old boys club where a few folks with power get to dictate what the rest of us don’t include me in your generalizationsconsume. (This is my interpretation)

I've been lurking on here for a few yearssponging knowledge without contributing to the common good in other words before posting, and during that time, I witnessed a lot of awful behavior and communication that was not censored, and it's still available to view. Anyone on here can read through the litany of older posts to experience first hand this isn't a made up diatribe.

I can't obligated to voice my concerns in the hopes the powers that be respond and explain why this is so, because it's insulting, and feels like being treated like a child; if the shoe fits …I'm 45. Maybe that's young around here...I can't be certain.

There are many ornery responses by elder members, often... Warranted, but also, often enough, not so. Especially when they dismiss actual questions with such banal responses as "go talk to a librarian. There must be an actual BOOK on the subject." I read that post, it was solid advice(Paraphrasing) Seriously? That is extremely condescending. How is that legitimate advice in 2022 given the climate of the pandemic? And this type of behavior is never censored, but rather the responses to such arrogant replies. It's very frustrating. What also concerns me is that by bringing up this topic publicly, I fear that I risk retaliation you deserve itunder since "terms and conditions" excuse. ( But I've been silent long enough and I'm willing to bring this to light, and hopefully, get some criticism as well. I crave to engage with differing opinions. Ask and you shall receive…)

There are posts that begin to get off topic, but are reigned in by the O.P., that are subsequently, partially deleted, because of reasons or claims, with the cheering of other elder members in those threads. This happens repeatedly. It's always against lesser or newer members and never, that I've seen, enacted against elder members.

Those other members cheering added literally nothing of value to the conversation, yet applauded the censorship. Can I be more polite can you be more butt hurt?in expressing my frustration given the current culture on this forum? It is abrasive and strikes me as elitist (at times). I'm certainly not alone in this perspective.

How does this create a welcoming environment for what amounts to outlaws? Literally, we are all outside of the law, which I understood as meaning we have a brotherhood that transcends politics, even if we're on "opposing teams"? No participation trophies here, you have to earn your place It was my hope that we would be significantly more encouraging to anyone interested, even when they ask ignorant or legitimately dangerous questions.... Simply as a matter of principle. Treat your brothers with respect, even if they aren't on your level.

This is a very time consuming, often confusing, and intricate hobby. I think even the newbies, who are most often misguided, eventually fall in line with the culture of safety here. Myself included.

Being censored is rampant now, across all big tech and legacy media platforms, if you don't tie the party line. Why is that happening here? Maybe, because of the power differential, those in a position to "clean up threads" don't understand what it feels like to be censored, but I can assure you, it is very unwelcoming. It also causes serious frustration, especially when the conversation has been reigned in by the O.P.

I submit this post with the most respect,I have my doubts, but you get a pass here and I don't want to be kicked off the platform. But these grievances aren't felt by just a small minority, it's just that most folks either don't care enough or don't want to kick the hornets nest. I hope you folks understand my intent is to approach this in a manner that encourages self-reflection on all parties, good idea, yourself included while hopefully providing a more welcoming and understanding environment.

Mistakes are made, often by me, but not with malevolence. This is the best forum available, so please understand my concerns are with honest intent to improve the collective experience. Nice first effort

[SeeSeeVeeEmm]

This seems like a good example of a misinterpreted reply taken personally.
This doesn't bother me like that post a couple days ago did though. Bit my tongue for that one.

To the mods re: censorship. I'm in your house, not mine. Please don't hesitate to remove anything I post that you do not want here. Thank you for your service here.

To the "good 'ol boys club". You've spent years and years searching and researching, years and years of paying attention, years and years of hard work, years and years of making mistakes, and years and years of EARNING the respect of one another. Thank you for freely giving your knowledge.

To misinterpretation. Thank you for keeping me on my toes and making me read the same thing multiple times or asking questions to clarify.

I found this forum searching for answers and knowledge
and am still on this forum because I WILL be slapped for being out of line and I WILL be called out on mistakes I don't know I'm making.
Thank you for progressing my journey down the rabbit hole and not being my emotional support forum.

The past couple years has been difficult for humans on earth. People are on edge.
And lets remember, just because someone's bad day is directed at you, doesn't mean it has anything to do with you.

Lol did someone get “bothered” by a thread? You need to leave your feelings at the door when you step in here bud.

Btw, your post sounds like the submissives at the local S&M meetup my old restaurant used to host. “You’ll slap me if I’m outta line daddy” Someone needs to grow a pair…

As for OP, I’ve been on this forum long enough before this account and I agree with you on some of your points; I believe if one of the vets made this post they’d be lauded, but that’s the trend around here. I guess we all gotta get used to it.

[SeeSeeVeeEmm]

There wasn't an internet as we know it today when I did my initial research into distilling, it was done in university libraries. Count yourself lucky that so much information is easily available when you started.

I suggest that you quickly hone your skills for searching the forum, internet and archives, because there might be some reluctance amongst the old hands for answering your questions from now on.

Eh he can just make another account.

[Tater]

There wasn't an internet as we know it today when I did my initial research into distilling, it was done in university libraries. Count yourself lucky that so much information is easily available when you started.

I suggest that you quickly hone your skills for searching the forum, internet and archives, because there might be some reluctance amongst the old hands for answering your questions from now on.

Eh he can just make another account.

Looks like you havent read rules here .

[SeeSeeVeeEmm]

There wasn't an internet as we know it today when I did my initial research into distilling, it was done in university libraries. Count yourself lucky that so much information is easily available when you started.

I suggest that you quickly hone your skills for searching the forum, internet and archives, because there might be some reluctance amongst the old hands for answering your questions from now on.

Eh he can just make another account.

Looks like you havent read rules here .

Looks like you can’t detect sarcasm on the internet bud.

Also, you’re delusional if you think banned members don’t make alt accounts, or that some members have multiples.

[psf]

Damn SSVE, you jumped right in with your 7 total post.

I tell my boys all the time "Grown folks are talking."

[Tater]

There wasn't an internet as we know it today when I did my initial research into distilling, it was done in university libraries. Count yourself lucky that so much information is easily available when you started.

I suggest that you quickly hone your skills for searching the forum, internet and archives, because there might be some reluctance amongst the old hands for answering your questions from now on.

Eh he can just make another account.

Looks like you havent read rules here .

Looks like you can’t detect sarcasm on the internet bud.

Also, you’re delusional if you think banned members don’t make alt accounts, or that some members have multiples.

few might get by .we have our ways checking .there been few Ive banned several times . takes me about 30 seconds to ban someone .However onec ip blocked as well as email and name takes poster longer to get back on . one thing that doesnt change over time is way ya type /talk .theres software that picks up on that bud.

[SeeSeeVeeEmm]

Damn SSVE, you jumped right in with your 7 total post.

I tell my boys all the time "Grown folks are talking."then what are you doing here young lad?

Didn’t know there is a rule with a prerequisite post count before I get the boys panties in a twist

[SeeSeeVeeEmm]

Eh he can just make another account.

Looks like you havent read rules here .

Looks like you can’t detect sarcasm on the internet bud.

Also, you’re delusional if you think banned members don’t make alt accounts, or that some members have multiples.

few might get by .we have our ways checking .there been few Ive banned several times . takes me about 30 seconds to ban someone .However onec ip blocked as well as email and name takes poster longer to get back on . one thing that doesnt change over time is way ya type /talk .theres software that picks up on that bud.

Hey, sorry bud I’m an old fogie and I just call it like I see it, and your “hacker” software isn’t working one bit! I’ve seen members admit to having banned accounts and alts and still posting today.

[Tater]

Well Im amazed at all you discovered in your short time here .

[Twisted Brick]

Not much getting accomplished here other than hurling insults and giving HD-bashers ammo.

Time to get back to distilling, gentlemen.

[Deplorable]

I'm just curious how long before this gets locked and someone gets the ban hammer.

[Hügelwilli]

one thing that doesnt change over time is way ya type /talk .theres software that picks up on that bud.

You mean for example you search in the database for "doesnt", "ya" and ".theres" to find the alt account of yourself?

[subbrew]

hell everyone else is so I will toss in my two cents. Still fairly new and have learned a lot from this forum. Had a post deleted when I strayed to close to politics - fair enough, not a political forum. Didn't totally agree but was not going to waste time getting upset. Are there a few grumpy old members here that seem more than happy to call out redundant or newbie, I didn't read that much, questions, without much polish and politeness, yes. But you soon learn who they are, I ignore what I consider uncalled for comments and learn from the good ones.

Most sections of this forum are what I consider college level. I didn't expect a college math prof to explain simple multiplication to me. But Colleges do have remedial classes to get "newbies" up to speed. My suggestion, if you have answered something 50 times and a it gets asked again, just move to the next thread, let a newer person such as myself answer it if I can. Only step in if my answer is factually incorrect.

I want to bring the new people along as much as possible, while learning from the experience (and sometimes grumpy. PS I love being old enough to sometimes be a grumpy old fart now) members on this forum. More people mean more experiments. One of those new folks may just be the next DAD300 that comes up with great new ideas.

Now, everyone go listen to some Andrew Dice Clay and Sam Kinison routines learn how to laugh off offense.

[shadylane]

General atmosphere of forum

That's easy. It's about home distilling.

Some folks may think a single run sugar shine works best for them.
Others might prefer malting and mashing.
Some folks buy readymade equipment, others like to build.

Here's the thing that counts,
Most folks come here to talk, learn and compare ideas.
Naturally there will be differences of opinion and ability to express them.
Especially depending on how how intoxicated, inarticulate or ornery some folks might be.

On a side note.
I figure a question asked in the novice section.
Deserves an honest and nonsmart assed answer.

[BrewinBrian44]

Figure I’d add my take on HD after a couple years on here.

I’ve experienced the blunt responses, but it’s all good. Imagine being on here from the beginning, answering the same questions over and over again. I realized right away, this forum should be more about “reading” than posting. The HD power search is an awesome tool. I’m amazed at all I’ve learned without needing to make a single post about the topic.

Sure, I’ve been guilty of asking for a little spoon feeding if I’m having a tough time grasping a concept, but I’ve got nothing but help here by letting people know I’ve already done some initial research. I’ve also been guilty of being wrong or misinformed on a post and was swiftly called out on it, but here’s the thing, I deserved it, didn’t let it hurt my feelings AND learned from what I was initially wrong about. Leading to more reading from me…

A lot of times, you’ll find when you make a stupid post, you’ll get the snarky comments. This usually indicates you have more reading to do.

Think of earning respect here like a right of passage, you gotta show you’re doing the research and making real attempts at building your skill set. These boomers put in the work to make this place what it is and deserve some respect. Also make sure to say thanks when people help you out!

[shadylane]

A lot of times, you’ll find when you make a stupid post, you’ll get the snarky comments. This usually indicates you have more reading to do.

I find a "snarky comment" much more annoying than someone who asks a question.
I can learn from the folks that take the time to answer questions.
The folks that are "snarky" only breed more of the same.
And muddy the water of knowledge.

[LWTCS]

Figure I’d add my take on HD after a couple years on here.

I’ve experienced the blunt responses, but it’s all good. Imagine being on here from the beginning, answering the same questions over and over again. I realized right away, this forum should be more about “reading” than posting. The HD power search is an awesome tool. I’m amazed at all I’ve learned without needing to make a single post about the topic.

Sure, I’ve been guilty of asking for a little spoon feeding if I’m having a tough time grasping a concept, but I’ve got nothing but help here by letting people know I’ve already done some initial research. I’ve also been guilty of being wrong or misinformed on a post and was swiftly called out on it, but here’s the thing, I deserved it, didn’t let it hurt my feelings AND learned from what I was initially wrong about. Leading to more reading from me…

A lot of times, you’ll find when you make a stupid post, you’ll get the snarky comments. This usually indicates you have more reading to do.

Think of earning respect here like a right of passage, you gotta show you’re doing the research and making real attempts at building your skill set. These boomers put in the work to make this place what it is and deserve some respect. Also make sure to say thanks when people help you out!

Beyond commenting in the back room how this entire thread is accomplishing not one thing, I wasn't going to respond at all to this (yet again) complaining about how someone got their feelings hurt on HD.

This place definitely has a reputation for tough love. Shoot I remember when PP got all butt hurt on his entry into the snake pit.
He got himself up to speed real quick and became a very good resource for lots of members.

Anyway, before this thread wears itself out more than it already has, just wanted to comment that this post above saved me from pulling the plug. Thank you Brian.

The info is free folks. And it is indeed qualified info.
Much more so than the ridiculous Facebook, reddit, or YouTube platforms.

If you can't handle the delivery then this platform is just not for you. You're better off somewhere else. That is unless you're interested in getting the info.

[cranky]

On the thread the other day that got locked I told someone "if you see something say something" so that's just what I'm doing.

Some of you are being excessively and unnecessarily rude in this thread.

This tends to be an occasional problem and the OP is correct that certain members are given a certain amount of slack before being disciplined.

There is no harm done by being nice to people in your responses, there can be a lot done by unnecessary rudeness.

[Oldvine Zin]

The info is free folks. And it is indeed qualified info.
Much more so than the ridiculous Facebook, reddit, or YouTube platforms.

If you can't handle the delivery then this platform is just not for you. You're better off somewhere else. That is unless you're interested in getting the info.

Well said Larry

Stay safe
OVZ

[shadylane]

Here's what Rrmufsaid said that began this conversation.

I can only point to ONE solitary response that I would say was completely inappropriate

Sounds like the "General atmosphere of forum" isn't too bad at the moment.

[CopperFiend]

In the two years I've been here after lurking for a year I have developed a strong protective feeling towards this forum and the vast resource it is. I have gone from being an absolute newbie with no idea what I was doing, trying to make whisky having never done an AG mash before and on a dirt cheap Chinese pot. Hopefully to someone who can assist the more experienced members here by taking some of the strain of the newbies questions off their hands.

I feel like this is similar to learning to be a doctor, you have to start as a med student and keep getting under everyone's feet, not able to do anything well and occasionally irritating the residents and consultants. You then start to find your feet as you filter the knowledge out of the tirade of abuse you get from the consultants for screwing up and gradually become a useful part of the team doing basic jobs. You then become a resident and are capable of dealing with more complex jobs but still remember what it was like to be right at the bottom so you're more kind to the new guys and try to help them. Then finally many years later you're a consultant, top of the field and have totally forgotten what it was like to be a student and sometimes get sick of them pestering you with what you think are inane questions but you actually asked yourself when you were in their position.

Anyway, rambling post but I'd like to say I really appreciate both the mods, old guard and also the newbies because it makes me feel better about myself to be able to answer their questions and see them eventually start posting 'this recipe was amazing and tastes great' posts. Nobody change, you med students need to take the rough with the smooth and see that you'll be a resident in a year or so if you keep at it.

Copper.

[EricTheRed]

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[Demy]

I noticed that a few years ago there is more valid information on the internet (in general on different topics) today copy / paste reigns on blogs, but I have learned a lot through the internet so I cannot say that it is totally unreliable (see this forum, unique of its kind).

[Rrmuf]

Here's what Rrmufsaid said that began this conversation.

I can only point to ONE solitary response that I would say was completely inappropriate

Sounds like the "General atmosphere of forum" isn't too bad at the moment.

+1 I completely agree! Love the forum!