Distillate pool forming in 2” ball valve

[BrewinBrian44]

Hey guys,

I have a 2” tri clamp ball valve for my 3” VM column and noticed a pretty big design flaw with it. When the valve is partially open, the outside of the metal cools enough for form a pool of distillate inside the ball cavity. It is mounted horizontal as to not create a pool when it’s closed, but I feel like it will contaminate my hearts by dragging some heads along, or heaven forbid a puke.

I decided to downgrade to a 1” tri clamp ball valve with PTFE seats. Have any of you experienced this happening with smaller valves?

Honestly, I should have gone with the 1” valve from the start, I never get close to fully opening the 2” and the adjustments are much more sensitive.

[Salt Must Flow]

Are you positive that ethanol is actually 'pooling' inside of this valve while distilling? The reason I ask is because that valve should be too hot to have condensate pool within it.

With my 3" VM, I use a 1" gate valve and that is plenty big enough. Any larger really isn't necessary.

[BrewinBrian44]

Are you positive that ethanol is actually 'pooling' inside of this valve while distilling? The reason I ask is because that valve should be too hot to have condensate pool within it.

With my 3" VM, I use a 1" gate valve and that is plenty big enough. Any larger really isn't necessary.

Yeah it’s definitely pooling. I found out by partially opening the valve after a run and tipping it sideways. A decent amount of liquid poured out. This was with it closed, so I know vapor wasn’t getting in there and cooling down after I shut off the power.

[MereCashmere]

IIRC this is what the CCVM boys n gals use to justify their lack of a valve; I think both options are fine choices personally. I don’t remember off the top of my head what the fix was, but I seem to recall someone figured out how to figger out this pooling. Maybe they’ll comment here? I think reducing the takeoff valve was a great idea

[Salt Must Flow]

I still don't see how this pooling can occur while the still is hot while running. My valve is hot as hell. I have an elbow on the other side of my valve and it is hot as hell too. The elbow connects to my shotgun condenser and with a decent temp gradient, the inlet of my shotgun condenser is hot as hell.

Now I can understand how one could switch off their still and over time, due to the valve cooling, could cause vapor to condense within the valve, but I don't see how it could while running hot. I've dribbled water on my valve while my VM was running and the water cooked off quick. Ethanol cooks off much quicker.

[BrewinBrian44]

Yeah it surprised me too. I have the valve as close to the T as possible. I even hear it make a gurgle sound when I open it.

[still_stirrin]

Hey guys,

I have a 2” tri clamp ball valve for my 3” VM … mounted horizontal as to not create a pool when it’s closed, but …

If you rotate the valve 90* so the stem is on top, the ball spins on a vertical axis, thereby eliminating the “pool” of condensate.

… I decided to downgrade to a 1” tri clamp ball valve with PTFE seats. Have any of you experienced this happening with smaller valves?

Honestly, I should have gone with the 1” valve from the start, I never get close to fully opening the 2” and the adjustments are much more sensitive.

My VM uses a 1” ball valve. No problem with condensate pools either. And, like you’ve noticed, you won’t run it wide open (ever) because it’s a reflux head. The VM is very easy to set and maintain the reflux ratio for high purity products. You don’t need to worry about fluctuations of water pressure or temperature (like a CM stillhead). Just set and forget.
ss

[BrewinBrian44]

Hey guys,

I have a 2” tri clamp ball valve for my 3” VM … mounted horizontal as to not create a pool when it’s closed, but …

If you rotate the valve 90* so the stem is on top, the ball spins on a vertical axis, thereby eliminating the “pool” of condensate.

… I decided to downgrade to a 1” tri clamp ball valve with PTFE seats. Have any of you experienced this happening with smaller valves?

Honestly, I should have gone with the 1” valve from the start, I never get close to fully opening the 2” and the adjustments are much more sensitive.

My VM uses a 1” ball valve. No problem with condensate pools either. And, like you’ve noticed, you won’t run it wide open (ever) because it’s a reflux head. The VM is very easy to set and maintain the reflux ratio for high purity products. You don’t need to worry about fluctuations of water pressure or temperature (like a CM stillhead). Just set and forget.
ss

SS, that’s fantastic advice! Thank you!

[shadylane]

Have the valve and all the plumbing going slightly up hill from the column.
That way any passive reflux drains back to the packing.

[BrewinBrian44]

Have the valve and all the plumbing going slightly up hill from the column.
That way any passive reflux drains back to the packing.

Hey Shady,

I’m trying to think of a “non-fabrication way I can do that. Everything I have is try clamp modular, minus my boiler which a friend tig welded for me. I wonder if I could do that, plus the other recommendation for the horizontal orientation, with a couple 45 degree bends?

[LWTCS]

Full port 3 way valves dont have full overlap when switching on the fly.
Doing so will result in vapor or liquid entry onto the valve body.

These valves are not intended to be partially open / closed and therefore are not good at throttling or switching directions on the fly.

[NormandieStill]

Have the valve and all the plumbing going slightly up hill from the column.
That way any passive reflux drains back to the packing.

Hey Shady,

I’m trying to think of a “non-fabrication way I can do that. Everything I have is try clamp modular, minus my boiler which a friend tig welded for me. I wonder if I could do that, plus the other recommendation for the horizontal orientation, with a couple 45 degree bends?

Put a small wedge under your boiler to tilt it? A degree or so won't cost you any efficiency but might clear the run-off... but I'm with the others, I don't imagine that much pooling is going on during a run due to the heat of the thing.

[kimbodious]

It is just passive reflux that occurs after you shut down the boiler.