Arto's Gin Recipe V3

[The Baker]

If I am unable to get Sage tomorrow could you suggest a substitute?

Throw in some fresh sage from the shop.
Probably work?

Geoff

[artooks]

Hi Everyone,

I just added a new botanical to this recipe so the new recipe is now called. The new botanical is called " Melissa Leaves" added 0.5 grams / liter.

I just made a test batch of gin with camomile and lemon balm (melissa). Both at 0.16g / litre. I find it very herby. Neat the juniper is very present but mixed into a G+T you get a strong herbaceous cut grass odour. It's only been a week since I distilled it though so it might yet settle out some. I'll be interested in how you get on with the addition in yours. It'll help establish whether it was the camomile or the lemon balm that added that note.

I had a thought.

Can you not simply add some of the 60% ABV alcohol to the botanicals and blitz them with a hand lender to get them real fine.

I have used a pestle and motar but it is a mission.

That's an interesting idea, but my hand-held blender is plastic. Perhaps when we get a SS one I might try it...

...then again, I'm rarely that pressed to run a new gin. I can afford to let it macerate for a few days before running it.

it is all about experimentation, before I distill and make a recipe I make a very small batch from %50 pure alcohol and the herbs in it, I simply mix all the botanicals in it, this is like 100 ml small samples, just to get an idea how they will marry together, but to adjust the botanical amounts for a 100 ml sample is really hard, than I gently heat it up and let it cool, then I smell and taste if I like the outcome, I first go for it in my small still, if that comes out good, I do a big batch, so I will let you know once I distill it in my small still.

[Andrew_90]

If I am unable to get Sage tomorrow could you suggest a substitute?

Throw in some fresh sage from the shop.
Probably work?

Geoff

Can't even get my hands on fresh. I am off to have a look again in 30min.

[NZChris]

Ask for sage at your local garden center. We use it for more than distilling, so we always have it in the herb garden.

I seldom grind anything fine for gin. Juniper gets bashed and some types of hard peppers get smashed in a blender.

If you are worried about leaving valuable flavors in the still, run slower to give them more time to extract. My gin runs vary from an hour to six hours depending on the style of gin I'm aiming for and the still configuration.

[MereCashmere]

@art-

If you can get your hands on sum “confetti bush” I think you’ll be very pleased. It’s like lemon, liqorish, raisin, and basil all wrapped up in one gentle plant.

[artooks]

@art-

If you can get your hands on sum “confetti bush” I think you’ll be very pleased. It’s like lemon, liqorish, raisin, and basil all wrapped up in one gentle plant.

Thanks for the tip, I do not know if we have it here, I will check.

[Andrew_90]

Finally got my grubby mitt's on Dried Sage and Lime Blossoms, which from what I can see come from the Linden Tree family which are Lime Trees.

So I added Orris Root and Grains of paradise. I substituted the Earl Grey Tea for a local tee made from a local plant. It is called Rooibos Tea (Red Bush Tea). It is well noted for its medicinal and detoxifying properties and it tastes great. Thought the local endemic botanical would be nice to try to give it a South African flair.

She is macerating as I write and will be run late afternoon. I am rather optimistic.

[Andrew_90]

Ok so the pilot run is over. I have the equivalent of 4 x 750ml bottles busy stabilizing waiting for the water to get to temp before final dilution.

So some important notes;

I had 7 000ml @ 45% ABV of a previous batch of Gin (horrible tasting) which I decided to mix with my fresh stripped sugar wash of 27.6l @ 33% ABV. The output from the CCVM was 96% ABV spirit. One would have though that the bad tastes would have been stripped out. Could the strong taste have carried through despite the high ABV?

I took enough from this batch to do a trial run of 4ea 750ml bottles. When the run was over I took a little more and diluted it to make a double tot to sample with gin.

The nose is not as clean as I would have thought, I cannot put my finger on the smell.
There is a bitter and unpleasant aftertaste, very much in line with the previous poor batch.
The same smell and taste exist as per a batch when I thought I had added too much Mandarin Peel. No Mandarin in this batch????

Extremely disappointing.

So the only botanical that is strong and in abundance are the Juniper Berries, so I chewed on one to see if the taste was Juniper, it was not. I am totally stumped.



Am am going to chuck the entire batch. Any ideas for me?

[NormandieStill]

Did you taste the neutral after you'd redistilled it? If there was a strong taste you should have picked it up then.

Edit to add: Also... perhaps try and find a way of making smaller batches. 7L of bad gin is much bigger problem than 250ml!

[Andrew_90]

I did taste the neutral and I did not get any overwhelming taste that I get now. There was a bitterness to the neutral.

[NormandieStill]

I did taste the neutral and I did not get any overwhelming taste that I get now. There was a bitterness to the neutral.

Sounds like you might have got some carry-over from the previous batch. You really want as clean as possible for gin (or complimentary flavours if you know the flavour profile of your botanicals). Personally I wouldn't use a neutral that tasted bitter to make gin. That sounds like early tails to me.

Not that this helps you now. I'd let it sit for at least a week if not two before trying it again and see if it balances at all. If not... back in this still with it and take great care with your cuts.

[artooks]

Ok so the pilot run is over. I have the equivalent of 4 x 750ml bottles busy stabilizing waiting for the water to get to temp before final dilution.

So some important notes;

I had 7 000ml @ 45% ABV of a previous batch of Gin (horrible tasting) which I decided to mix with my fresh stripped sugar wash of 27.6l @ 33% ABV. The output from the CCVM was 96% ABV spirit. One would have though that the bad tastes would have been stripped out. Could the strong taste have carried through despite the high ABV?

I took enough from this batch to do a trial run of 4ea 750ml bottles. When the run was over I took a little more and diluted it to make a double tot to sample with gin.

The nose is not as clean as I would have thought, I cannot put my finger on the smell.
There is a bitter and unpleasant aftertaste, very much in line with the previous poor batch.
The same smell and taste exist as per a batch when I thought I had added too much Mandarin Peel. No Mandarin in this batch????

Extremely disappointing.

So the only botanical that is strong and in abundance are the Juniper Berries, so I chewed on one to see if the taste was Juniper, it was not. I am totally stumped.



Am am going to chuck the entire batch. Any ideas for me?

Hi,

When I was first starting out to this hobby, I started making a sugar wash from a recipe, I prepared it with high anticipation, and when I started to get to the hearts, I was all very much excited, I took a sample and that was the weirdest taste I have ever had in my life, the after taste was even way worse, so I would like to know which recipe did you use, because when a sugar wash tastes bad, the main reason to blame is that there is insufficient nutrients for the yeast, so first of all can you please share the recipe you used ?

[artooks]

I did taste the neutral and I did not get any overwhelming taste that I get now. There was a bitterness to the neutral.

Sounds like you might have got some carry-over from the previous batch. You really want as clean as possible for gin (or complimentary flavours if you know the flavour profile of your botanicals). Personally I wouldn't use a neutral that tasted bitter to make gin. That sounds like early tails to me.

Not that this helps you now. I'd let it sit for at least a week if not two before trying it again and see if it balances at all. If not... back in this still with it and take great care with your cuts.

Agree with that, some of my gins really smell harsh especially at day 1 and just after I dilute the gin, so as NormandieStill suggests waiting could change the overall taste especially after 2 weeks, but for gin you need the pure hearts, it should be clean because you want the taste the overall taste of all the botanicals you include if you didn't make the cuts correctly and lets say you got some early tails, that will carry over even you distill with a CCVM still.

[artooks]

Ok so the pilot run is over. I have the equivalent of 4 x 750ml bottles busy stabilizing waiting for the water to get to temp before final dilution.

So some important notes;

I had 7 000ml @ 45% ABV of a previous batch of Gin (horrible tasting) which I decided to mix with my fresh stripped sugar wash of 27.6l @ 33% ABV. The output from the CCVM was 96% ABV spirit. One would have though that the bad tastes would have been stripped out. Could the strong taste have carried through despite the high ABV?

I took enough from this batch to do a trial run of 4ea 750ml bottles. When the run was over I took a little more and diluted it to make a double tot to sample with gin.

The nose is not as clean as I would have thought, I cannot put my finger on the smell.
There is a bitter and unpleasant aftertaste, very much in line with the previous poor batch.
The same smell and taste exist as per a batch when I thought I had added too much Mandarin Peel. No Mandarin in this batch????

Extremely disappointing.

So the only botanical that is strong and in abundance are the Juniper Berries, so I chewed on one to see if the taste was Juniper, it was not. I am totally stumped.



Am am going to chuck the entire batch. Any ideas for me?

One last thing, I understand that you wanted to save your previous gin batch that was not very successful, but while trying to save the old batch you are risking and mixing your pure hearts with an old gin that has already been macerated with botanicals, but as I said before, I suspect that maybe there is a problem with you initial fermentation. can you confirm how was your first spirit run tasted when you reached hearts did you taste it ? How was it ?

[howie]

andrew, i have read your post and just to be clear....
you added 7litres of bad gin to 26litres of low wines/stripped sugar wash?
the you did a spirit run with that mix?

also the botanical list has 7.5gm earl gray in 1 per litre?
i have used green tea for gin once, which seems to ok at 2.5gms per litre.
but i've also used tea to extract the tannins for cider, so i'm thinking it's a balancing act with quantity of tea?

[Andrew_90]

Thanks all.

@arto. I use Shady's Suger Shine Wash and don't skimp on anything.

@howie. Well spotted, that is indeed a typo, I used 1.9g/l of the the Tea.

Had a smell of the neutral early this a.m. there is no hint of the offensive smell, got my wife to smell it and she says there is no smell but she described my Gin as having a perfumed smell, she is a non drinker.

I tasted some neutral at 07;00 and she tastes neutral.

I wonder if I don't have a bad / poor quality batch of Juniper Berries. The one I had last night was near tasteless and dry.

This is so disappointing.

[NZChris]

You might have to go through your apothecary tasting every ingredient until you find the offender.

According to my records, I have used sage to make a very nice gin, (a very 'out there' gin with few typical botanicals), so I doubt sage is the problem, but it might be if you used too much.

[Andrew_90]

So as Arto said, the stuff needs to stand awhile. Went out this a.m. after the first tasting. Got back 5 hours later and diluted the batch, the nose got less aggressive as did the taste.

Poured a double G&T at 12:45 (yes I know it a bit early but this is research as opposed to drinking ). Better than last night but there is still a very bitter after taste.

[Andrew_90]

Went past my local Distilling Supply shop this afternoon armed with my Berries, sample of Neutral and a sample of my Gin.

The first then he looked at was the berries, although the outward appearance looked the same as on his shelves he munched on one, which he said was rather tasteless.

He then tasted the neutral and told me was not bad, but that it had a bite and there there was something in the neutral that he could not put his finger on. I told him I had added may 7l of bad Gin to the spirit run and he said that must have been it.

Then he tasted my gin and immediately turned his nose up when he smelled it. He could not figure out what the smell was nor the taste.

He then took an eye dropper and added some Gin Extract my Gin and the "gin taste" returned to my Gin. It became vaguely acceptable.

He was of the opinion that my Juniper Berries were simply not imparting enough Gin flavour as they should.

[artooks]

Thanks all.

@arto. I use Shady's Suger Shine Wash and don't skimp on anything.

@howie. Well spotted, that is indeed a typo, I used 1.9g/l of the the Tea.

Had a smell of the neutral early this a.m. there is no hint of the offensive smell, got my wife to smell it and she says there is no smell but she described my Gin as having a perfumed smell, she is a non drinker.

I tasted some neutral at 07;00 and she tastes neutral.

I wonder if I don't have a bad / poor quality batch of Juniper Berries. The one I had last night was near tasteless and dry.

This is so disappointing.

Hi,

using too much orris root could cause the perfume taste.

[Andrew_90]

Thanks,

So it gets worse. I dilute to 45% ABV with distilled water to ensure that the product does not louch. Yesterday the Gin she was crystal clear, this morning she had louched. What is going on?

PS: She smells way better today, starting to smell like Gin. Will keep the bottles for two weeks then do a taste test.

[NZChris]

Yesterday the Gin she was crystal clear, this morning she had louched. What is going on?

It sounds like you have missed out on some common reading material and easy solutions.

I'm surprised if a newly proofed gin hasn't developed a haze by the next morning. I don't want to replicate the wimpy commercial gins available at my local liquor store.

If I cut my gins to where they don't louche, they start to taste more like commercial gins. If that is what you want, add your best neutral at your desired ABV until it doesn't louche.

[Andrew_90]

Hi, yes I know the remedy to louching.

In my reading I had convinced myself that at 45% ABV, that alcohol would not louch, my last batch at 45% did not hence the confusion.

[richard1]

@Andrew_90 As below / attached is my spreadsheet view of the recipe. I haven't included the Lindentree. My only view is on the use of dried house tea i.e. Earl Grey and similar, I find that they can lead to some quite harsh flavours especially if used in high ratios.

As to louching as you haven't used absolute excessive botanical values, I suspect that you have cut too way early into hearts with the heavy Juniper oils coming through.

[NZChris]

For some of my gins I include the foreshot after smelling it. Just because somebody, somewhere, recommends discarding a foreshot, doesn't mean that it is the right thing to do for every gin you might decide to make. If your juniper isn't particularly strong, removing a foreshot might be a mistake.

If the foreshot smells like nail varnish I never include it.

[artooks]

For some of my gins I include the foreshot after smelling it. Just because somebody, somewhere, recommends discarding a foreshot, doesn't mean that it is the right thing to do for every gin you might decide to make. If your juniper isn't particularly strong, removing a foreshot might be a mistake.

If the foreshot smells like nail varnish I never include it.

I totally agree with you NZChris, for example, "Turkish Raki" is an anise based spirit, which you add the anise wait 48 hours and redistill again, for example in this run, you have to capture the early tails, in order to get the anise oils, the easiest test to understand whether you extracted enough anise oils is once you finish the run and dilute it to 50% ABV you drink it with 1 part raki and 1 part water once you add water it has to go cloudy around 38% ABV if it does not goes cloudy it means you did not extract enough anise oil in the early tails, for many tails needs to be discarded, but in this case you need it, same goes with gin as well, if what. you are looking for is a big juniper aroma than you need more juniper oils to begin with. In order to combat touching I am thinking to keep the gin around 50% ABV this is what I do with Raki as well.

[NZChris]

You don't have to 'combat louching' unless you are selling to a market that expects your product to be clear. As a home distiller, that shouldn't be a problem. Embrace the louche, be proud of the fact that you don't use so few botanicals that your gin is as clear as the finest mountain spring water etc., etc., blah, blah, blah.

God forbid that I should ever have to make an Absinthe that doesn't louche at 50% in the bottle.

[NormandieStill]

You don't have to 'combat louching' unless you are selling to a market that expects your product to be clear. As a home distiller, that shouldn't be a problem. Embrace the louche, be proud of the fact that you don't use so few botanicals that your gin is as clear as the finest mountain spring water etc., etc., blah, blah, blah.

God forbid that I should ever have to make an Absinthe that doesn't louche at 50% in the bottle.

I recently made limoncello, following Demy's recipe and the louching is essential. Frankly the clear spirit before proofing looks a lot a urine sample, but the almost shimmering oils if the proofed down one look fantastic. I would tend to agree that while appearance is of some importance, flavour is everything.

[richard1]

I suspect that you have cut too way early into hearts with the heavy Juniper oils coming through.

Apologies, this ought read .... too way early into heads with heavy Juniper oils coming through

[Andrew_90]

So in keeping with Arto's recipe I have left the Gin to settle.

After 1 week odd the nose has altered significantly, the offensive smell is gone and Gin smells rather pleasant now. I have set one bottle aside to taste at various points in the maturation process. The gin tastes really good, really nice.

I have two bottles just maturing and I will not though these for at least 4 weeks.

After lots of introspection I believe that I need to concentrate on the source, the neutral. I am not sure that I am starting with neutral that is up to scratch, this in my opinion is simply due to my inability to make cuts correctly. Start wrong, end wrong. The next time I will load my fractions into the car and seek out someone with a wealth of experience to do the cuts with me.

The biggest revelation to me has been the affect that time has on the finished product. Was always taught that spirits do not age in the bottle, whether this is true or not I know not, what I do know is that Arto's recipe definitely changed for the better in the bottle.

Arto, I will make your recipe again as it is nice.