Gin Run %(ABV) during different stages and when to end

[artooks]

Hi,

Everyone,


I have been watching some videos and reading some articles about gin run, what I would like to understand is a gin run is not like a normal spirit run in terms of cuts, for example we only cut a very small amount for the heads in OEG It states only 10 mls for 10 liters and for the actual hearts or the main product we collect 400 mls per liter around (70-80% ABV) but in some videos I see some people continuing distilling until %40 ABV or even %28 which is tails territory, I have never tried it but intend to, so if we were to decide to end the gin run what would be a good level of course this will differ from recipe to recipe, but I am talking about without going into tails what would be the %ABV to end the distillation, I will definitely try this, but if there are any of you which has tried this, could you please chime in and explain your experience.

Thanks

[NZChris]

I use my records and tasting notes from previous runs of similar styles of gins to decide on the volume to take off.

I’ve never checked ABV at the spout because it isn’t important to me.

How much you can take off can depend on how greedy you were when choosing the heart cut from your base spirit and what you fermented, you will want to shut down fairly early if you used tomato in the wash.

[howie]

are you talking about different methods?
using the OEG method, you should only be using good neutral, so i don't think there should be heads/hearts/tails.
isn't the only difference with the OEG method, that the run will pick different botanicals at different parts of the run.
that first 10 ml is usually strong citrus, it will cause louching, but sometimes i add it anyway.
after 400ml/litre mark, it can pick up more astringent/woody/cassia type flavours?
i never measure the abv either, just go by taste, collect samples after the 400ml mark and add what i want.

the 40%/28% you talk about, is that maybe people doing a spirit run with low wines through a botanical basket?
eg start the spirit run, put the still into full reflux after heads, add botanical basket & restart run etc etc

[Saltbush Bill]

Howies right , that first part of any gin run , regardless of the botanical bill is where a lot of the oils are and where a lot of louching problems begin.
Ive never really noticed it to contain a lot of citrus.....but then I use a lot less citrus that Odins recipe.

it can pick up more astringent/woody/cassia type flavours?

Spot on there to.....going to deep into the tail end of the run brings those types of flavours across......if you go to far the cassia can become overpowering ......you will also start getting bitterness coming through from my experience.
Its like blending /cutting anything, collect in smallish jars........smell and taste your way through them, anything tasting really woody/ strong cassia toward the end leave out or only add a little to the over all take.
After doing the same recipe a few times with the same amount of booze in the boiler you will learn where to stop.......I usually run till it goes cloudy, then work backward from that point leaving out the last two or three jars.

[NZChris]

If a particular botanical is too strong late in the run but you want to run longer to capture late flavors from other botanicals, use less of it.

[Saltbush Bill]

If a particular botanical is too strong late in the run but you want to run longer to capture late flavors from other botanicals, use less of it

If it was that easy Id do it that way Chris, by the time that happens other issues are starting to make them selves known, bitterness and cloudiness of the out put isn't far away. They are all good indicators that you are getting very close to the end of the run and that there is bugger all Alcohol left in the boiler anyway.
Using less will also effect the way the main body of the run tastes. As with most things distilling, greed gets you nowhere, Id rather not try to wring the last drops out of the run by adding less.

[NZChris]

I usually go at least 40ml beyond the 400ml/l of OEG. For non-gin products that are high in fruit and botanicals I go way beyond it, stopping because it’s running out of flavor, not because they are bitter or tailsey.

I don’t know which botanicals cause my gin takeoff to get bitter after I’ve taken my cut, because I haven’t gotten around to running enough of them individually to have identified any.

[Lights Out]

Only a couple of gin runs to my name but I found the flavours change significantly as the run goes on so certainly don't want to be cutting off too early and leaving out any good stuff. Coriander and orange iirc were pretty late on in my first run, but then shortly after they came through it went cloudy and abv dropped off a cliff so it gave me a natural end point.

Secind run was with a cleaner neutral, but oddly it never did similar to the first one, I was starting to think by volume I must be getting closer to the end and sure enough I was still getting about 60% at the spout but a bit of a tails flavour. I certainly think I found it costs nothing to go to smaller jars toward the end of the run even if its not a traditional heads/hearts/tails scenario

[artooks]

Hi,

Yes since we are starting with clear hearts it is not like a spirit run, but then again macerating the spirit with botanicals, and since there is a variety among these botanicals, not all the botanicals we put in will react the same way during the run, their aroma will be extracted differently even in different stages, but for example up until now I am using OEG method for my gins now I would like to extend it to collect more from the run, I will regard it as a spirit run and collect the early tail in a different jar, but what I was mainly asking if there was an ABV point to finish the run, but as I understand it will be unique in every different recipe also it will differ on the method if we are doing a herbs on boiler or vapor infusion, so more experimentation is needed.

[artooks]

Another thing that I am wondering, lets say I have 2 different gin run that I have to start the first one is %43 ABV and the second one is 30 ABV do I still collect 400 mls from each other, or is there a formula for this how do you do it ?

[Wozza]

...so if we were to decide to end the gin run what would be a good level of course this will differ from recipe to recipe, but I am talking about without going into tails what would be the %ABV to end the distillation, I will definitely try this, but if there are any of you which has tried this, could you please chime in and explain your experience.

Thanks

I started with OEG and have gradually been varying the amounts of juniper, coriander and citrus (currently up to version 20). Last recipe (quantities per litre of 43% neutral) was:

17g juniper
5g coriander
2g orange peel
14g grapefruit peel
1.5g angelica root

I toss the first 20ml (very cloudy) and then take slightly more than the recommended 400ml per litre. I run 7 litres at a time (quite a small boiler) and I collect 3.0 L as opposed to the recommended 2.8L. I tried pushing it a little past 3.0L, but the next 200ml was very slightly tailsy.

If the stuff was costing me $30 a bottle to make I might push it a little. But it's around $4 so...I've stuck with 430ml per Litre.

Incidently, I collect the first 200ml in a jar and the rest goes straight into a demijohn. That 200ml goes slightly cloudy when diluted to 43%, so I keep it separate so that the bulk is crystal clear. Make some crystal clear ice and add a good tonic and a slice and gee, roll on Friday. And no hangovers either...

Another thing that I am wondering, lets say I have 2 different gin run that I have to start the first one is %43 ABV and the second one is 30 ABV do I still collect 400 mls from each other, or is there a formula for this how do you do it ?

I'd do the approx. 400ml per Litre for the 43% and do cuts for the 30%.

[NZChris]

2g orange peel
14g grapefruit peel

Fresh or dried?

[Wozza]

2g orange peel
14g grapefruit peel

Fresh or dried?

Fresh. I get whatever looks good in the supermarket. It's generally mandarin (can't get tangerines here), lemon, oranges, grapefuit (normal or pink) and tangelos (which is kinda cross between an orange (?) and a tangerine). Sometimes I'll pick whatever seems to have the thicker skin as it's easier to peel. So tangelos are a favourite.

I've started thinly slicing oranges and grapefuit and drying them in the pizza oven or the kichen oven. The dried grapefuit is awesome in a g and t.

[NZChris]

The dried grapefruit is awesome in a g and t.

Especially if you use a squeeze and a twist of fresh grapefruit and peel when pouring a G&T.

[Wozza]

The dried grapefruit is awesome in a g and t.

Especially if you use a squeeze and a twist of fresh grapefruit and peel when pouring a G&T.

Talking of grapefruit...pink grapefruit juice, a good shot of tequila, dash of syrup, dash of lime, lotsa ice and a sprinkle of flaked salt on top. Una Paloma. A bloody nice drink.

[richard1]

Another thing that I am wondering, lets say I have 2 different gin run that I have to start the first one is %43 ABV and the second one is 30 ABV do I still collect 400 mls from each other, or is there a formula for this how do you do it ?

If you use the same amount of Neutral, then YES the same amount.

Just for info, this is your (Aartooks) recipe and blended 3 ways (just to make things interesting)

.................. All have same amounts of Neutral spirit. I have manipulated ABV dilution to both 43% and 30%. Then I have further based botanicals based on either 43% or 30% in the boiler

[artooks]

Another thing that I am wondering, lets say I have 2 different gin run that I have to start the first one is %43 ABV and the second one is 30 ABV do I still collect 400 mls from each other, or is there a formula for this how do you do it ?

If you use the same amount of Neutral, then YES the same amount.

Just for info, this is your (Aartooks) recipe and blended 3 ways (just to make things interesting)

.................. All have same amounts of Neutral spirit. I have manipulated ABV dilution to both 43% and 30%. Then I have further based botanicals based on either 43% or 30% in the boiler

aartooks 30 30.png

aartooks 43 43.png

aartooks 30 43.png

Wow great write up your excel sheets are very detailed and precise good work please let me know about the outcome I am really wondering how all of them will turn out.

[8Ball]

I just did 3 runs of OEG style gin. Back to back. 1L at a time. Tossed the first 15 ml then collected the next 420 ml. What was left behind I dumped. Decided to combine all three batches into one jar because I didn’t take notes on the botanicals used other than:”a little, a little more, and; a lot.” Wound up with 1.25L @ 73.5%. Knocked it down to 46% and my 0.5G jar is full to the rim. Gonna let it sit the full 5 weeks and then break out the Fever Tree tonic and limes.