Another stripper, 25L/h 2" 2.5kW ;)

[Yummyrum]

Yeah not sure about positive displacement pumps. But it'll surely cause bad behavior with a centrifugal pump.

Good point Larry , I was indeed using a centrifugal pump on mine . Although I can’t get my head around why it might be different . Way I saw what was happening was that near boiling liquid seemed to form into pockets of gas that would propel pockets of liquid up the feed tube . ( I was using silicone hose and could see the dark rum beer inside it )

Edit: OK thinking about it , the explosive force of vaporising liquid that propels up the tube would also force back through the centrifugal . Makes sense now ….. I think .

[Yummyrum]

In my mind , the other issue with vapour feeding the top rather than liquid is that the vapour will not get a chance to flash on the top plate , but rather simply leave the top of the still without getting a chance to dump the water .

[bluc]

If its already vapour surely it would be alcohol not water vapour. Good points. For sure this sounds like its gunna be whole lot of frustration hopefully with some fun times also...i will need a temp on my input by the sound of it.
I am close been waiting for 2x 2.5" ferrules and 2x 2.5 hangers over a month getting inpatient. :evil:

[Yummyrum]

If its already vapour surely it would be alcohol not water vapour.

It’s water and alc vapour bluc . If it were simply alcohol vapour, there would be no need for the plates below the feed point .

Incidentally , most do just feed the beer in above the plate . I feed mine via a thump tube onto the top plate so even if it was vapour , it had to bubble through the liquid on the plate.

[bluc]

I guess ima find out soon enough...

[LWTCS]

If its already vapour surely it would be alcohol not water vapour.

It’s water and alc vapour bluc . If it were simply alcohol vapour, there would be no need for the plates below the feed point .

Incidentally , most do just feed the beer in above the plate . I feed mine via a thump tube onto the top plate so even if it was vapour , it had to bubble through the liquid on the plate.

Yessir. My injector tube turns downward and deposits beer below the liquid level.

[bluc]

Another good tip yummyrum and lcwts

[bluc]

@l.c.w.t.s you say 9 plates is enough to purge all ethanol. You reakon 9 will create enough pressure to push out waste?

[bluc]

Looking for max effeciency (removal of max ethanol) and fullest flavour not high abv..

[Yummyrum]

@l.c.w.t.s you say 9 plates is enough to purge all ethanol. You reakon 9 will create enough pressure to push out waste?

Hope Larry will comment too , but the waste should exit via a fluid trap .
The height of the fluid trap should be long enough that the pressure at the bottom of the still doesn’t blow the waste out . If it does , then there is no pressure left to operate the plates as it ( the steam) will all exit via the waste which has had its fluid blown out .

So the waste leaves the still simply because the level inside the still equals the level of the outlet pipe . It shouldn’t need pressure to force it out .

Kinda like this

[bluc]

Of course path of least resistance has to be via the plates or as you say or blows out drain. But there still needs to be enough positive pressure to clear the effluent drain, not really clear but keep solids moving.. my setup will be more like opposite to your drawing. bottom of column will be effluent, steam input tube will be above level by about 100mm, drain out at 90 degrees to column. there will be indeed be a "utube"(manometer ??) style bend in the tube for a vapour lock.

needs to be a balance. Path least resistance through plates but enough back pressure it push"s mash out drain or drain will flood.
(I really need to work on a way to draw diagrams). I dont think solids will exit without a little pressure..

[LWTCS]

The size / volume of the trap will create a bit of back pressure and also act as a steam trap. I incorporate a "bottoms" HX into the trap in order to also preheat beer /cool effluent.

The elevations can be set up so that the effluent can gravity drain. We typically put a ball valve on the tip of the effluent discharge to be used as a way to have more control over throttling the pressure. Minor adjustments on the valve will also allow you to have more control over the column behavior is my experience.

I have no idea how far your effluent discharge can be pushed and still maintain good plate behavior with out excessive puking? But at that small scale I wouldn't rely on pressure to move effluent very far.

[bluc]

Ok thanks

[LWTCS]

You may find that if you want to experiment with using a bit of pressure for mass transfer of your effluent, you'll need to be prepared to reconfigure your waste stream a time or two to find that sweet spot?

I think I'd set up similar to yummy's diagram. So set up to gravity drain but with a way to cap the anti-syphoning breather and install a ball valve on the effluent dick.

You can't use the anti-syphon if you try and throttle pressure with a valve. But by having both options in place you'll be able to know for certain what set up ends up providing the best outcome and your feedback would likely be very much appreciated here.

[bluc]

Am i right in thinking anti siphon is to stop the drain completely clearing and allowing vapour escaping?

[LWTCS]

Am i right in thinking anti siphon is to stop the drain completely clearing and allowing vapour escaping?

Yessir.
If you gravity drain, the siphon effect will take over and drain your trap dry without the breather vent.

[bluc]

Ok sweet. Build it so it can use either anti siphon or pressure fed waste if one doesnt work the other will(should).

[Yummyrum]

Ok sweet. Build it so it can use either anti siphon or pressure fed waste if one doesnt work the other will(should).

A valve on each /both .

So if you throttle the effluent too much , will it buildup ?
Seems like critical adjustment . LOL looks like an excuse for another sightglass to monitor effluent level .

[bluc]

Gunna have sight glass above and below plates. If you throttle waste wouldnt it just blow out anti siphon?

[Yummyrum]

Gunna have sight glass above and below plates. If you throttle waste wouldnt it just blow out anti siphon?

I think Larry was suggesting you can either run it via gravity in which case you need the anti-syphon vent .

Or ,
you can use pressure to blow it out in which case you block ( don’t need ) the anti-syphon but use a valve to regulate the effluent discharge rate .
This method seems like a fine balance between letting too much out and risking a self syphon blow out … or… not letting it discharge fast enough whereby it backs up inside .
Mindyou the whole continuous still thing is one after another fine balances , so why not add another one

I may be reading it wrong , but I suspect the reason Larry said to try Gravity discharge method first , is to reduce the number of variables at first until you get all the main variables like power, feed rate , feed rate temp , anti-foaming etc dialled in , then tweak things like discharge methods .

[LWTCS]

Gunna have sight glass above and below plates. If you throttle waste wouldnt it just blow out anti siphon?

I think Larry was suggesting you can either run it via gravity in which case you need the anti-syphon vent .

Or ,
you can use pressure to blow it out in which case you block ( don’t need ) the anti-syphon but use a valve to regulate the effluent discharge rate .
This method seems like a fine balance between letting too much out and risking a self syphon blow out … or… not letting it discharge fast enough whereby it backs up inside .
Mindyou the whole continuous still thing is one after another fine balances , so why not add another one

I may be reading it wrong , but I suspect the reason Larry said to try Gravity discharge method first , is to reduce the number of variables at first until you get all the main variables like power, feed rate , feed rate temp , anti-foaming etc dialled in , then tweak things like discharge methods .

Yessir, that is a reasonable statement. It seems like these little stills are a bit more sensitive based on the feedback from other experienced member operators. We can see that zero (or the like) pressure in the column is helpful at this scale.
Of the 4/ 12" systems in service now, we know that the 12" can push waste through about 75' of hose and lift about 7' in the air. It would be nice to know what at that larger scale can be scaled down to perform at a similar commensurate scale. General rules of thumb so to speak.

Maybe running any measurable amount of pressure at this scale is just a bad idea in terms of good column behavior? Setting the effluent stream up to experiment with either technique should answer several questions.

How far along are you bluc?

[bluc]

I just have to solder my ferrules into a copper pipe make plates. Also purchase the heat exchangers. I am going to use counterflow wort chillers(coiled liebig) they are 7 feet long and have a 12mm and 8mm path. Down bottom Waste Solids will take 1/2 path, continous steam generator water(using a rims tube) will use the 8mm path.

Up top vapour will take 1/2" path, mash the 8mm path.
Have a 500ml/min perastaltic pump(max) with a speed controller. It has 6mm tube. Grain will be ground and sieved to 3mm max.

Plan on assembling plates and section and the pump in next 2 weeks..hopefull purchase hx in the next month

[LWTCS]

And pump?

[bluc]

Yea just got to make an enclosure for it and speed controller..

[stevea]

Really excellent build. I believe you are near the practical limits of flow rate for 2", and your power efficiency is good. Hard to beat that.

[drmiller100]

From your boiler, creat an outlet for the overflow. Put it fairly low in the boiler. I used half inch which is plenty big.

Then have the hose go UPHILL to the height you want the water in the boiler. Let's say it goes uphill 18 inches. That is 18 inches of water :pressure: obviating the need for any pressure valve.


Then put a T with the top fitting exposed to atmosphere. This breaks any siphon inadvertently draining your boiler.
It also pukes as a warning if your column floods

Again, here I have a counter flow exchanger so the waste exits at 100 degrees or so and the new beer going is boiling a little as it enters the column.

[drmiller100]

@l.c.w.t.s you say 9 plates is enough to purge all ethanol. You reakon 9 will create enough pressure to push out waste?

Hope Larry will comment too , but the waste should exit via a fluid trap .
The height of the fluid trap should be long enough that the pressure at the bottom of the still doesn’t blow the waste out . If it does , then there is no pressure left to operate the plates as it ( the steam) will all exit via the waste which has had its fluid blown out .

So the waste leaves the still simply because the level inside the still equals the level of the outlet pipe . It shouldn’t need pressure to force it out .

Kinda like this BEB006C2-88F0-4C08-B1F0-CB4CED53FE6B.jpeg

Crap!!! I can't get yummy pic to copy down from his post above!!!

download/file.php?id=79479&mode=view
This picture is cool but won't work. This will blow bubbles.

Move the boiler pull off LOWER in the boiler then there will be head to hold the water in the boiler.

The boiler level of water will be determined by the height of anti siphon no matter where you pull from the boiler,