Another Manometer

[BlueSasquatch]

Not jazzed on a manometer, but figure its better to be safe than sorry, and it's not terribly expensive to put together anyways. So looking for feedback.

Glass maxes out 12" above the top of the keg, arguably more above the top of the liquid level in the keg. Lets just say Its water, with mash in the thumper, down stream.

Do I need to be lower than the keg? Kegs have a concave bottom, so if you were flush with the ground, you're probably below the actual bottom of the liquid. Mine is raised up slightly for extra wiggle room, and to keep the stick lengths nice.

The pipe bracing is just the same size pipe, saddled onto and soldered to the outside of the pipe, did similar with the water lines for a condenser. Figure that length of 1/2" could be a bit easy to bend, bracing should help it.

I'm also somewhat concerned about the weight of this, with liquid, hanging off the union, may make a small wood brace for the bottom, to keep it supported from the ground. Or some sort of copper pipe brace to the keg, just not soldered onto the keg.

And then when it comes to filling this thing, I suppose connect a hose to the union, prior to attaching it to the keg, and fill it up that way?

Last week, I was about 18" above the top of the keg, and at 3/4" diameter, we calculated under 2 psi to blow.



Appreciate any feedback!

[stillness]

Hey BlueS,
I'll throw in my two cents here.
Good job hassling with a manometer! Hassling with all the rest, might as well throw it in.

Placement height of the manometer doesn't matter. Can be below or above the water in the boiler. It's just measuring the air pressure in the system, but the liquids shouldn't interact or touch. The water in the manometer just sits in the u-bend and the height isn't related to the water height in the boiler.

Ya, 1 psi is something like 27 inches water column (also, diameter of manometer doesn't impact the height. 27 inches is 1 psi with 2 inch diameter or 1/2 inch diameter).

[BlueSasquatch]

Hey BlueS,
I'll throw in my two cents here.
Good job hassling with a manometer! Hassling with all the rest, might as well throw it in.

Placement height of the manometer doesn't matter. Can be below or above the water in the boiler. It's just measuring the air pressure in the system, but the liquids shouldn't interact or touch. The water in the manometer just sits in the u-bend and the height isn't related to the water height in the boiler.

Ya, 1 psi is something like 27 inches water column (also, diameter of manometer doesn't impact the height. 27 inches is 1 psi with 2 inch diameter or 1/2 inch diameter).

Appreciate the feedback! I couldn't quite understand why other designs had the bottom of the manometer, drop below the keg, didn't quite make sense to me but the same can be said for alot of things.

[Twisted Brick]

Appreciate the feedback! I couldn't quite understand why other designs had the bottom of the manometer, drop below the keg, didn't quite make sense to me but the same can be said for alot of things.

I just copied the manometer/blow off tube placement used by the distilleries in Tasmania. The fact that theirs are so short indicates their giant boilers run at low pressures.

As drawn, your manometer mirrors mine. My design is not a true manometer since it doesn’t provide two glass tubes in a U-shape and the ability to measure the balance of liquid between two pressures of interest, namely atmospheric and boiler/thumper pressures. Since I didn’t feel an accurate reading of pressure was important, this design only serves as an indicator of system pressure and a straight-forward PRV to safely deal with an over-pressure event.

Initially, I found that just 3gal of thumper volume provided enough pressure to send my ‘indicating water’ higher than my glass could show, so I increased the water capacity (and weight) so the water ended up staying in a visually usable range, in the middle of the glass. At this point I do not intend to run slops in the thumper, only cleared wash. Time will tell if the water will react the same with a half-full thumper.

I think if you construct your manometer with the dimensions listed yours will act the same as mine did, and you will have to either enlarge the liquid capacity or alternatively, find a way to increase the density of your liquid.

If you haven’t ordered your glass yet, check these guys out. IIRC, they were about a quarter the cost of lab glass, dirt cheap for borosilicate and perfect for our use.

[BlueSasquatch]

I just copied the manometer/blow off tube placement used by the distilleries in Tasmania. The fact that theirs are so short indicates their giant boilers run at low pressures.

As drawn, your manometer mirrors mine. My design is not a true manometer since it doesn’t provide two glass tubes in a U-shape and the ability to measure the balance of liquid between two pressures of interest, namely atmospheric and boiler/thumper pressures. Since I didn’t feel an accurate reading of pressure was important, this design only serves as an indicator of system pressure and a straight-forward PRV to safely deal with an over-pressure event.

Initially, I found that just 3gal of thumper volume provided enough pressure to send my ‘indicating water’ higher than my glass could show, so I increased the water capacity (and weight) so the water ended up staying in a visually usable range, in the middle of the glass. At this point I do not intend to run slops in the thumper, only cleared wash. Time will tell if the water will react the same with a half-full thumper.

I think if you construct your manometer with the dimensions listed yours will act the same as mine did, and you will have to either enlarge the liquid capacity or alternatively, find a way to increase the density of your liquid.

If you haven’t ordered your glass yet, check these guys out. IIRC, they were about a quarter the cost of lab glass, dirt cheap for borosilicate and perfect for our use.

Right, I may have to increase the height somewhere in order to keep a visual, I actually already have the glass now, three tubes of 20" 3/4" so I could shoot for dual glass, and the ability to actually measure pressure, but I'm not sure I see a ton of value in that.

I recall your thread with the increased height after running, Im likely to try atleast once, distilling a full 10 gallons on grain, in the 15 gal thumper, reckon that would be near max pressure.

[Twisted Brick]

Looking forward to hearing your results.

[BlueSasquatch]

Looking forward to hearing your results.

What kind of glue to bond the glass with the copper? I am using a bushing between the copper fitting and the glass itself, but need to seal the glass to the bushing.

In theory it only ever has contact with water. Worst case I suppose steam, or alcohol vapor, pending the still charge.

[Twisted Brick]

The best high-heat epoxy I found was a JB-Weld that I think was good for glass too. On mine, the copper fitting was first soldered to the ferrule, then the glass got epoxied tight into the end of the copper fitting to avoid any exposure to water/steam.

I think you won't have to worry about any exposure to liquid once the epoxy sets. The water in the manometer remains cool despite its copper conductivity. You'll want to make a jig for your bushing and fitting so it epoxies up aligned perpendicular (as you can get it) to your glass.
.

[shadylane]

Here's a pic of how I modified some 1/2" flare copper fittings to work with glass.
The glass can slide inside the tubing for adjusting to length.
This was used for a water site glass.

My 2 cents.
For an effective manometer.
Clear plastic tubing is cheaper than copper fittings and glass.

[BlueSasquatch]

Here's a pic of how I modified some 1/2" flare copper fittings to work with glass.
The glass can slide inside the tubing for adjusting to length.
This was used for a water site glass.

My 2 cents.
For an effective manometer.
Clear plastic tubing is cheaper than copper fittings and glass.

DSCF0002 (350x263) 1.jpg

I do like the gasket and threaded fittings, eliminates the need for any glue. I'll have to do a quick look into that. I've just cut pieces to length and dry fitted last night, the first drop after the 45 degree is about 1/2" from the side of the keg, so it clears, just keeps it low profile.



Those small horizontal pieces will be filed to give a sort of concave sides, so they saddle up to the vertical pipes nicely, and then soldered in place to help give strength.

[EricTheRed]

Nice - but a question
Would it not make sense to put a union on each of the vertical pipes so you can easily replace the glass should it break?
and one on the piece coming from the cap - to make it easier to store?

[Ben]

Could be a nice detail to slot or split a piece of copper and shroud that manometer tube, give it some protection.

[BlueSasquatch]

Could be a nice detail to slot or split a piece of copper and shroud that manometer tube, give it some protection.

Right, I've thought about that, just run 3/4" pipe with some slots cut out. But Twisted Brick had the gonads to bounce one of these tubes on his kitchen table and it did not break. They are quite thick as well, same glass that beakers are made out of, so they are rather durable. But I don't disagree that glass makes me uneasy, but perhaps it'll do me good, keep me paying extra close attention during set-up.

Nice - but a question
Would it not make sense to put a union on each of the vertical pipes so you can easily replace the glass should it break?
and one on the piece coming from the cap - to make it easier to store?

Twisted Brick has a series of connection points via ferrules and clamps that align much more with what you describe. I'm lacking a horizontal union at the moment where it comes off the Tee above the keg. You can see it in the drawing but it was not in the mail order with the rest of the fittings. Should have it fairly soon. Then I can atleast pull the unit for storage. I'm hoping not to have to replace the glass, but it will indeed require me to melt some solder, clean and re-solder some joints to do so.

[Yummyrum]

Blue , that’s the best looking damn Manometer I’ve seen .

Quite possible the glass might break . But seeing as you built it , probably gonna take you about an hour or so to fix it .

Then again , might never break .
Don’t be so sure Borosilicate is tough . It sucks with impact damage unlike toughened glass . But it's good at resisting temperature shock changes.

As it happened , tonight , Dog was playing with new Automated Ball thrower , ball bounced off Dogs face , up into bench and smashed my Borosilicate Measuring Cylinder ….. I kid you not , shit happens . But so long as you can fix it quick or get on with the show , you’re good to go .

[Bushman]

My PC is made from Borosilicate and i have been very careful with it but am guessing I have been running it for over 10 years now.
download/file.php?id=15286&mode=view

[Oatmeal]

Enjoying this thread! A manometer build is getting awefully close to the top of my list, and this is a great reference.

[BlueSasquatch]

Blue , that’s the best looking damn Manometer I’ve seen .

Quite possible the glass might break . But seeing as you built it , probably gonna take you about an hour or so to fix it .

Then again , might never break .
Don’t be so sure Borosilicate is tough . It sucks with impact damage unlike toughened glass . But it's good at resisting temperature shock changes.

As it happened , tonight , Dog was playing with new Automated Ball thrower , ball bounced off Dogs face , up into bench and smashed my Borosilicate Measuring Cylinder ….. I kid you not , shit happens . But so long as you can fix it quick or get on with the show , you’re good to go .
230156BC-EEB4-45DF-9D5D-CA2FDBCAB589.jpeg

High praise! I appreciate it, I've been leaning heavily on Twisted Brick for most of the design, I just can't bring myself to spend the $$ on ferrules. They are great, but I just don't like clamps.

Right, I've broken a beaker, knocked it onto the shop floor while fiddiling with an axe. (Side business restoring axes, sold about 450 of em now, fun, shouldn't do it while distilling tho) And the last time I distilled, I held the top of the hydrometer with my teeth and busted it. Somehow no blood. Anyways Im no stranger to breaking shit, which is why I've been dragging my feet on a manometer in the first place.

Still considering a couple extra copper unions to make replacement a hair easier, I had to hollow out some bushings to get the glass to fit, not very fun and ideally I won't have to do it again, so may look at those press fittings, not 100% set in stone yet. Also like Twisted found while operating, he needed more height and I may not have enough, I've tried to go as minimal as possible, but the ability to add in a spool piece of height, would probably serve me well. Just more copper and $$ to something I didn't want in the first place, but better done upfront.

My PC is made from Borosilicate and i have been very careful with it but am guessing I have been running it for over 10 years now.
download/file.php?id=15286&mode=viewimage.jpeg

Ah so you're the owner of that beauty! I've had it saved in a photo album for a while but at the time, Didn't grab a name. Beautiful piece!

[Twisted Brick]

Blue , that’s the best looking damn Manometer I’ve seen.

Quite possible the glass might break .

Then again , might never break .

I'm not sure of Blue's glass wall-thickness, but the borosilicate I used appears to be pretty thick, maybe 30% solid? Even so, we know that borosilicate is tempered to withstand extreme heat changes, not sudden violent impacts. After normal handling and conducting my highly-scientific Table Rap Test, I have concluded that borosilicate glass tubes can be hella strong, and can take a pretty significant blow and remain intact.

Below is an interesting study on the compressive and tensile strength of borosilicate glass tubes for consideration for use in physical structures. The study also includes the use of AB epoxy for bonding the tubes to metal.

https://repository.tudelft.nl/islandora ... J/download

Nice work, Blue. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that you won't need to enlarge your manometer volume.

[jessespa]

Blue,
I love that manometer. Another great thread to read. I do have a question where did you find the 1/2" return elbows?
I was looking for some of those a while back. Looks a lot cleaner than two elbows put together.
I really enjoyed this thread thanks for sharing.

[stillness]

Yep, that's a beauty! Reminds me of a trombone.

[shadylane]

Just a thought.
Multiply the readings X2 since there's only a single glass tube.

[BlueSasquatch]

Blue,
I love that manometer. Another great thread to read. I do have a question where did you find the 1/2" return elbows?
I was looking for some of those a while back. Looks a lot cleaner than two elbows put together.
I really enjoyed this thread thanks for sharing.

Supply House dot com, is where I order alot of my copper. Their prices are on-par with big box stores I find, and they offer free shipping once you get over $100. I quite like the return elbows as well, I used some in another condenser design I borrowed from Brutal, and I think they do offer a nice clean look.

Yep, that's a beauty! Reminds me of a trombone.

3rd person to tell me that, which is funny because the condenser I have for this rig is a "trombone" condenser.

Just a thought.
Multiply the readings X2 since there's only a single glass tube.

Right, the glass I ordered (Twisted Brick recommended the seller, my glass isn't quite as thick as his, but is 1/2" rather than 3/4" as I was trying to get away with something smaller) comes in sets of 3, so It was tempting to put another glass tube in the first leg, so that a change in level for reading could be done. But I'm not sure I care too much the exact pressure. I almost went with no glass at all, turning it more into a safety blow-off tube than a pressure gauge, but I figured even a split seconds heads up would be better than getting 100% surprised.

Reckon the design needs a few more unions and still need to pick up some flared copper fittings and see how good of a fit I can get with them, would make swapping out broken glass, ideal. It's bound to happen somepoint in time.

[stillness]

I remember seeing that condenser around.. crazy triple walled thing. That's also rad. This build belongs in an art show.