Rum distillation equipment

[overoaked]

Hi I have been trying to perfect a heavy Jamaican style rum and have been using a 50Ltr keg pot still. But have been getting an odd off taste coming through from my reading this is rum tails smearing even when running it very slowly. My current plan is to use my CM still with a packed column but tune the dephlegmator to output spirit in the 80-85% range after reading what others have done on plated columns.

So has anybody tried this and what where your outcomes

[NZChris]

If you are getting an undesirable flavor and do have copper in the boiler and vapor path, the problem is likely to be in the wash and using a different still type is unlikely to get rid of it. Smell and taste your molasses and dunder, one of them may be the problem. My worst wash was made using an expensive rum yeast that I've seen recommended here, bakers yeast used on the same recipe was fine.

If you don't have copper in the boiler and vapor path, fix that.

[overoaked]

Thanks for the reply. That is a good point I didn't have any copper in boiler / vapour path. I mite try re-distilling it. Options for set up are

1. with the the column I use for reflux packed (copper mesh) and a pot head on top of that.

2.use the copper dephlegmator directly on top of the boiler with no coolant water running then the pot head

[Saltbush Bill]

There is your problem ....no copper..........use plenty, the more the merrier.

[Sporacle]

I have run a SBB as a 1.5 through my detuned CCVM, detuning was by reducing the copper mesh packing but still having it spread out evenly through the column. Came out a touch under 90 had a cleaner taste profile as compared to the same recipe run through my pot but not as complex
I would think that it will be ready to drink a bit earlier than my pot stilled stuff.
On your pot what size is your riser?
What's your take off rate?
Is it a one and done run?
Is the undesirable flavour in your very centre hearts jar or is it throughout the run, so could it be tails from cuts?
Keep us posted how you go

Posted same time as Bill

[NZChris]

Consider adding it to fresh wash and running it with copper added to the boiler and vapor path.

[overoaked]

There is your problem ....no copper..........use plenty, the more the merrier.

Equipment set up will be column from the CM still packed with copper mess with this pot head on top. This gives me max surface area of copper. Then rerun existing rum.

Split batch for re-distillation
1. As is dilute and run
2. With added new fermentation or low wines from striping
3. With aged muck

Just to compare to see what gives the best product

[StillerBoy]

My current plan is to use my CM still with a packed column but tune the dephlegmator to output spirit in the 80-85% range after reading what others have done on plated columns.
So has anybody tried this and what where your outcomes

I do my rum ( panela/fancy molasses/with secondary fermentation ) using a LM concentric in hybrid mode.. in hydrid mode I use a 2 x 24" column, packed with 1/2" glass marbles, compress the first part of the head section, body section done in pot mode, then back to compressing the early tails..

Product come online somewhat quicker, as it is really nice after a yr on oak, and from there I do a solace process..

Mars

[CoogeeBoy]

There is your problem ....no copper..........use plenty, the more the merrier.

SBB,
I'm a bit confused. I thought rum was made using pot stills and I get the idea of putting copper in the vapour path and in the boiler, but at what point does this packed column become a reflux column?

[Saltbush Bill]

In the bottom photo its set up as a pot. In the other photo its set up as a reflux, however if you dont turn the water on to the reflux condencer it will still behave as a pot as a pot still. Mesh alone does not make a reflux still, it must have forced reflux added.
When I made the first comment I was looking at the pot still photo only.

[overoaked]

Time to report back on progress.

Run 1: still charge 25Lts @ 45% of existing rum combined with 15Lts of aged muck. Results odd astringent flavour gone and some nice tropical fruit hints

Run2: as above but muck replaced with water. Results odd astringent flavour gone and much less tropical fruit

Have a new fermentation ready to be striped. It's a mixed fermentation. Pitched yeast first let it finish then added live aged muck and continued fermentation for a further 3 weeks. The plan for this will to follow run 1 and add muck to the still

[overoaked]

My current plan is to use my CM still with a packed column but tune the dephlegmator to output spirit in the 80-85% range after reading what others have done on plated columns.
So has anybody tried this and what where your outcomes

I do my rum ( panela/fancy molasses/with secondary fermentation ) using a LM concentric in hybrid mode.. in hydrid mode I use a 2 x 24" column, packed with 1/2" glass marbles, compress the first part of the head section, body section done in pot mode, then back to compressing the early tails..

Product come online somewhat quicker, as it is really nice after a yr on oak, and from there I do a solace process..

Mars

Thanks for the tip mite give this a go on the next run

[StillerBoy]

Run 1: still charge 25Lts @ 45% of existing rum combined with 15Lts of aged muck. Results odd astringent flavour gone and some nice tropical fruit hints

Nice experiment with about 60% aged muck, whereas I add some wash to the spirit, as to the muck it's added in the secondary, i find it imparts nice flavor, different anyways than regular..

Have a new fermentation ready to be striped. It's a mixed fermentation. Pitched yeast first let it finish then added live aged muck and continued fermentation for a further 3 weeks. The plan for this will to follow run 1 and add muck to the still

Doing a secondary ferment using aged muck is what I've been doing for the last yr or so.. I don't use fresh dunder in my ferment any more, preferring doing a secondary instead.. I do add some wash to the spirit run instead of dunder or muck.. I only do the secondary for 14 days, never went 21 days.. what I've notice is that there is a big different, in the secondary, if the ferment is fully cover vera one partly close or seal.. there seem to be a big different in activity ..

Mars

[overoaked]

Doing a secondary ferment using aged muck is what I've been doing for the last yr or so.. I don't use fresh dunder in my ferment any more, preferring doing a secondary instead.. I do add some wash to the spirit run instead of dunder or muck.. I only do the secondary for 14 days, never went 21 days.. what I've notice is that there is a big different, in the secondary, if the ferment is fully cover vera one partly close or seal.. there seem to be a big different in activity ..

Mars

What difference do you notice with sealed Vs partial

The next fermentation experiment is use fresh dunder as the 100% of liquid element instead of water and also do a mixed fermentation as before with muck

[StillerBoy]

What difference do you notice with sealed Vs partial

The one time (and that was on attempt at doing a secondary), I didn't put the lid on properly across the fermenter (the lid is a piece of plexiglass).. within a week, the wash was starting to develop a similar activity as the muck pit.. the second time I made sure to seal it properly, and no top activity develop and the smell wasn't as strong either..

Mars

[overoaked]

This is a picture of the last fermentation just before it was emptied. The lid was sealed but opened regularly. Mite try what I have on the muck pit as a lid next time 25mm bung hole covered with a very fine bug net to keep the fruit fly's out. Had a bit of an infestation once

[StillerBoy]

This is a picture of the last fermentation just before it was emptied.

Based on the picture, that pretty much what my looked like (and some strong flavor).. and on the second one, with the fermenter seal, there was none, and so has the last two (I do a rum wash every three month).. will take picture of my wash, which is presently in its third day of a 14 days secondary, once it reach the 14 days, as I was planning on going only 7 days on this round, but will now/maybe go 14 days, will see..

That the fun of making rum compared to whiskey's, the turn around is much quicker, and just as nice to enjoy..

The lid was sealed but opened regularly.

What I've observed playing around with a my muck pit over the past yr and half (pit is a 7 gal capacity), if you unseal the pit (an open area on it or the lid is just on top but not press down or open/closed often), the activity is activated, if it's seal, the activity is slowed down.. so I do a combination of both..

Mars

[NZChris]

The next fermentation experiment is use fresh dunder as the 100% of liquid element instead of water and also do a mixed fermentation as before with muck

That's very brave. I don't recall anyone else here doing that. Watch your pH and oxygenate well.

A commercial rum trick I've heard about recently, but haven't tried with rum yet, is using the backset from the spirit run or the last retort in the ferment.

[StillerBoy]

will take picture of my wash, which is presently in its third day of a 14 days secondary, once it reach the 14 days, as I was planning on going only 7 days on this round, but will now/maybe go 14 days, will see..

Update.. after 7 days of secondary fermentation.. it smell just like the muck pit does after just 7 days, will not go the 14 days and will stripped tomorrow..

Mars

7 days of secondary fermenation

[overoaked]

The next fermentation experiment is use fresh dunder as the 100% of liquid element instead of water and also do a mixed fermentation as before with muck

That's very brave. I don't recall anyone else here doing that. Watch your pH and oxygenate well.

A commercial rum trick I've heard about recently, but haven't tried with rum yet, is using the backset from the spirit run or the last retort in the ferment.

100% fresh dunder experiment didn't go to plan. 25Lts molasses mixed with 120Lts approx fresh dunder. It was cooled overnight to 30 degrees, vigorously mechanically stirred for 10min, pure O2 was bubbled through at a rate of 5Lts per min for 15min, yeast vit B and Epson salts added. Gravity taken not that it would be accurate but allow me to track fermentation progress to stable gravity along with pH 3.5 the yeast I use is happy at this pH as have used for sour beers recently. It was left for 3 days with temp control provided by submersible heating element. No evidence of fermentation occurred.

Plan B: take small samples from the fermenter and start dilution in till fermentation occurred. Fermentation started at a dilution of 50% fermenter contents and 50% water. It is fermenting but quite slowly. I can only presume it was osmotic pressure stalling the fermentation.

I will report back once this is run with more results

[NZChris]

100% fresh dunder experiment didn't go to plan. 25Lts molasses mixed with 120Lts approx fresh dunder. It was cooled overnight to 30 degrees, vigorously mechanically stirred for 10min, pure O2 was bubbled through at a rate of 5Lts per min for 15min, yeast vit B and Epson salts added. Gravity taken not that it would be accurate but allow me to track fermentation progress to stable gravity along with pH 3.5 the yeast I use is happy at this pH as have used for sour beers recently. It was left for 3 days with temp control provided by submersible heating element. No evidence of fermentation occurred.

A pH of 3.5 is too borderline for me. I would adjust it to at least 4.5 with slaked lime, then use whole shells or a slab of marble to buffer it for the rest of the ferment.

The gravity, if temperature corrected, is accurate. It doesn't tell you how much fermentable sugar you have, but the OG/FG difference when the ferment goes dead tells you the ABV of the wash.

[Saltbush Bill]

I wouldnt expect any wash made with 100% dunder to ferment without having some major PH issues.

[NZChris]

PH would only be an issue if it wasn't dealt with when putting the ferment down, or if you took your eye off the ball during the ferment. I have done successful non-rum ferments using 100% backset.

[overoaked]

I wouldnt expect any wash made with 100% dunder to ferment without having some major PH issues.

Yes I understand that dunder is acidic but at a pH of 3.5 I would still expect it to ferment as I have started this yeast off in beer with a starting pH of 3.1 and it fermented out dry just a little slowly

[NZChris]

When I say 100% backset, I mean all of the backset from a wash of the same size, you still have to add water to get back to the original volume.

If you try that with rum, you will double the amount of non-sugars. Check the SG of the dunder before you use it. It might change your mind.

PH can be adjusted, high to encourage bacteria and funk, low to suppress bacteria.

[Dancing4dan]

Question.

Secondary rum ferment spoken of here is the addition of wash and / or muck to a wash after it has completed primary ferment? Then it is allowed to ferment a second time?

[StillerBoy]

Secondary rum ferment spoken of here is the addition of wash and / or muck to a wash after it has completed primary ferment? Then it is allowed to ferment a second time?

Muck (aged dunder) is added to the primary fermenter after its finish fermenting out, and the fermenter is seal/covered but not necessary under air lock, for a period of time, depending on the extra flavor one wants, from 7 - 15 days..

Mars

[NZChris]

Question.

Secondary rum ferment spoken of here is the addition of wash and / or muck to a wash after it has completed primary ferment? Then it is allowed to ferment a second time?

It's to let bacteria grow to create hogo, not to scavenge more alcohol.

[Dancing4dan]

Edited

[Dancing4dan]

Edited