Level of Concern

Discussion and plans for legalizing our hobby.

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JB_12
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Level of Concern

Post by JB_12 »

Should I, as a new hobby distiller, be concerned about getting arrested?

My current knowledge intuits that law enforcement and TTB are concerned more for illegal sale of illegal spirits and do not have the resources to pursue the hobby distiller who makes < 15 gallons per year and does not sell.

I plan to distill about 10-15 gallons per year and age 2 batches per year in 5 gallon new oak barrels. Will only be sharing with close family and friends and instructing them to keep low profile. I do my mashes on the driveway but I also brew beer and the neighbors know me for that. My distilling is done electric in my garage with closed garage door. I store my column and condenser and any glass with low wines or whiskey inside house in closet. Barrels will be in garage but unlabeled. I will not, under any circumstance, be selling a single drop.

What is my exposure with this hobby? I have small kids, wife, career that I cannot jeopardize but also love whiskey and getting into the art of distilling. What is a realistic level of concern for re: legality and potential arrest?
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jonnys_spirit
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Re: Level of Concern

Post by jonnys_spirit »

Don’t sell, don’t tell! If nobody knows then you’ve got nothing to worry about. Everybody loves free liquor - especially home made..
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BrewinBrian44
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Re: Level of Concern

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

Your story is pretty much the same as everyone on here, myself included.

Make sure to create no enemies with people who know about your little hobby. The scale you’re describing either means you plan to partake a lot, or have lots of friends to share with. Haha.

This hobby is illegal, plain and simple, but from stories I’ve heard, there could be a decent chance the fuzz wouldn’t even respond to the tip. Much bigger fish to fry. One of my buddies out here actually got me interested in the hobby and is good friends with a local county deputy. They were hanging out, sipping some of his apple pie moonshine. My buddy started asking him about the legality of the hobby, the deputy said “it’s only illegal if you sell it…” dude didn’t even know it’s a federal crime to make it. This guy literally did his runs in the middle of his driveway with neighbors and street traffic in plain sight. Don’t worry, I informed him of how absolutely stupid that was and he no longer does it. I also informed him of the law, illegal no matter what, he had no idea.

He later chatted with the deputy, informing him of the fact his shine project is indeed illegal. The deputy responded by saying, “wow, well I still wouldn’t do anything about it or any of the cops I know.” Thank god I live in the same county haha. Depending on your area, the local fuzz could have a very different attitude.

With all that said, having 50+ gallons of aging and finished booze in your home could be viewed as intent to sell your product. I’m sure many folks on here have quantities well beyond that, just be careful. Don’t sell, don’t tell!
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Twisted Brick
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Re: Level of Concern

Post by Twisted Brick »

Risk-assessment posts like yours pop up periodically, and the consensus is not to lose sleep over it as long as you 'keep your hobby under your hat'. Given the sheer number of retailers/online suppliers of whiskey stills, homedistilling is certainly no secret, and a testament to the tolerance of law enforcement busy attending to more egregious 'crimes'. In short, be discreet, follow all safety protocols and don't give anyone (family, friend or foe) a reason to call you in.

Other like posts:

viewtopic.php?f=49&t=71184

viewtopic.php?p=7599372

viewtopic.php?f=89&t=74396
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Yonder
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Re: Level of Concern

Post by Yonder »

Chill is the word. The advice you received above is great. Don’t sell, ‘specially near a school; don’t piss off your neighbors (or get into a contentious divorce); and don’t leave your ‘toys’ where people (or cops on a call) might see them. Otherwise you’re golden in this hobby. It is not a priority for law enforcement except in the east. The feds aren’t looking for 10 gal pot.
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Re: Level of Concern

Post by Wyododge »

I am one who has no real concern about authorities in my area, but one concern you should have, as TB mentioned, is safety. An electrical, Vapor or condensate fire will not be covered by insurance if it is due to an illegal activity. Fire extinguishers, charged garden hose, properly designed and installed electrical components, and collection away from open flame on a stable work platform (or the ground) are top priority. Just my $.02.
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Re: Level of Concern

Post by NormandieStill »

My first few runs were in our kitchen which has a large bay window looking into the garden. Impossible to see into unless you're already in the garden, but I still ran with the curtain closed and with a slight adrenaline rush. Over time I relaxed a little, as my body finally started to understand what my brain had already rationalised... the police don't just drop in to say hi without a reason, and no-one knows what I get up here.
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Re: Level of Concern

Post by StillerBoy »

JB_12 wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:57 pm I have small kids, wife, career that I cannot jeopardize but also love whiskey and getting into the art of distilling.
You have two conflicting line of thoughts in the statement, one about family and career, and the other about partaking in the hobby..

Do the necessary reflection on what level of important both are, then make a decision.. good sound advise has been provided as to what other are and have experience in relation to the law..

No one can make that determination for you, you and your family are the only ones who can..

Mars
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Skipper1953
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Re: Level of Concern

Post by Skipper1953 »

Don't sell. Don't tell. Good advice. It is pretty hard to share your product with anybody while claiming to follow the don't tell part of that mantra. Be sure you understand the consequences of being found out. When spilled, you can not be too sure of what cracks alcohol will find it's way into.
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Salt Must Flow
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Re: Level of Concern

Post by Salt Must Flow »

No worries about what I do in the privacy of your own garage. Sugar isn't a sketchy ingredient to buy. Neither are grains. No one blinks when people buy yeast. I've never bought all my ingredients at the exact same time from the same store, but even if I did, I wouldn't expect anything to happen. No one really cares. My 16 yr old son came across 25 lb bags of sugar at the local grocery store that were damaged. He bought them all for me really really cheap and no one even asked what he was buying it for :lol:

There's a local TIG welder that I've been using over the years and he once asked, "for brewing or distilling"? I said brewing, but he's a very smart guy and probably knows better.

I think of home distilling just as home brewing and wine making. There's a lot of things that are technically unlawful, but no one cares. Granny isn't concerned about her beautiful poppy garden.
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Re: Level of Concern

Post by YodOfGeast »

I'm glad this topic is being covered and grateful for the sensible responses from everyone. My wife says I have my "paranoia bit" flipped permanently on and I do agree with her on that. That said, who knows what might transpire to generate interest in the goings on at your abode. For example, something as innocent as a termite inspection might start some bored dude or gal's mouth running at the local bar...about some strange looking equipment they saw while inspecting a house. The equipment might be innocent home brewing kettles, etc. But, what if some new IRS agent (of the 87,000 new ones just approved by the "Inflation Reduction Act") wants to distinguish themselves and researches still pieces & parts purchased and cross-references that shipping address with the address a-hole at the bar gave them. Stretch? Who knows. The point is something really innocent could lead to some unwanted attention which could lead to a giant federal/state kick in the 'nads.

That has lead me to reevaluating pursuing the art of distilling versus the legal risk. I do not sell or even give any away. I do not tell anyone; my wife is the only one that knows. I distill electrically in my basement out of anyone's sight and I have some aging in oak and other amounts I'm experiment in flavoring with, but total probably less than 5 gallons. Still, the paranoia bit steals some of the joy from the hobby, particularly as I observe the recent questionable FBI raids and the government's hiring of 87k more IRS agents. Anyone think the landscape is changing in light of these events?
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LWTCS
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Re: Level of Concern

Post by LWTCS »

YodOfGeast wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:46 am FBI raids and the government's hiring of 87k more IRS agents. Anyone think the landscape is changing in light of these events?

This is a troll question that is sure to start a firestorm. Shut it down now.
The landscape has nothing to do with the fact that this is and has been for a very long time illegal. It is well known.
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elbono
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Re: Level of Concern

Post by elbono »

LWTCS wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:12 pm the fact that this is and has been for a very long time illegal. It is well known.
Exactly, I judge my risk by how high on the tree I am. There are multitudes of people making a living off moonshine in my area. I don't sell, and only tell and share to a very few people I trust. Stay away from being "low hanging fruit"

Many friends offer to pay me, my response is "bring the jar back if you want a refill".
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Re: Level of Concern

Post by juana_b »

elbono wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:56 pm Many friends offer to pay me, my response is "bring the jar back if you want a refill".
Amen
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Re: Level of Concern

Post by Yummyrum »

Even the people closest to you can sometimes loose fact that its something that could get you time or a serious fine .
My Sister in law , is a highly intelligent woman , she knows I’ve been at it for years and absolutely loves my Gin .
Well this time , when she come to stay , she had a few and unbeknown to me posted on Facebook pics and hpw here BIL makes the best Moonshine Gin .

Fortunately my wife is always looking at facebook and saw the post and told me. Well I was not impressed :evil: and within minutes , the sisters had it removed .
Appologies were accepted and another glass poured :ebiggrin:

So I think its a fine balance of letting some people know . But familiarity can lead to loosing sight that it is still illegal and sometimes it needs ti be reminded to those that you share with that its your freedom on the line .

And by that , I don’t mean pinning their throat against a wall …. just a reminder in conversation now and then .
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Re: Level of Concern

Post by Bushman »

It is almost impossible if you have been at it for any length of time that someone will know about your hobby. I don’t give it away to anyone other than immediate family members, I don’t sell, and I don’t talk about it often. If I have people show up and I offer them some alcohol usually they don’t know that I made it. The hardest part is when they say this is really good what brand is it?
hawkwing
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Re: Level of Concern

Post by hawkwing »

My kids ask what I’m doing and I tell them I’m making beer. One day they might see a picture of a still at school and say my dad has one of those. I’ve never heard of a cop caring though.
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Renhoekk
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Re: Level of Concern

Post by Renhoekk »

Bushman wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 7:47 am. If I have people show up and I offer them some alcohol usually they don’t know that I made it. The hardest part is when they say this is really good what brand is it?
Ha….too right. “I picked up a bottle on holiday…dunno what it was”. :angel:
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Re: Level of Concern

Post by Knife_man »

Zero , interestingly I actually had the police call on me the other day about 10 mins after I had finished a run, for a completely unrelated matter I should add , my mum's house had been burgled and I had diascovered it.

So I sat in my living room talking to two police detectives whilst my illegal still was cooling outside the kitchen window 🤣.

On the off chance they went outside
*Would they know what it was ?
*Could they be convinced that I used it for water,perfume or something else legal?
*would they actually care? Given that they had a burglary to investigate which had an actual victim and my shine harms no-one except the taxman to the tune of a few quid.

Just my personal opinion but I think that police work is quite often looking for people who ACT guilty ..... if you get a knock on the door and immediately rush around hiding things they know you got something to hide and are going to go looking for it.
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Re: Level of Concern

Post by Stonecutter »

YodOfGeast wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:46 am I'm glad this topic is being covered and grateful for the sensible responses from everyone. My wife says I have my "paranoia bit" flipped permanently on and I do agree with her on that. That said, who knows what might transpire to generate interest in the goings on at your abode. For example, something as innocent as a termite inspection might start some bored dude or gal's mouth running at the local bar...about some strange looking equipment they saw while inspecting a house. The equipment might be innocent home brewing kettles, etc. But, what if some new IRS agent (of the 87,000 new ones just approved by the "Inflation Reduction Act") wants to distinguish themselves and researches still pieces & parts purchased and cross-references that shipping address with the address a-hole at the bar gave them. Stretch? Who knows. The point is something really innocent could lead to some unwanted attention which could lead to a giant federal/state kick in the 'nads.

That has lead me to reevaluating pursuing the art of distilling versus the legal risk. I do not sell or even give any away. I do not tell anyone; my wife is the only one that knows. I distill electrically in my basement out of anyone's sight and I have some aging in oak and other amounts I'm experiment in flavoring with, but total probably less than 5 gallons. Still, the paranoia bit steals some of the joy from the hobby, particularly as I observe the recent questionable FBI raids and the government's hiring of 87k more IRS agents. Anyone think the landscape is changing in light of these events?
Obviously there are cops who are members here.
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Re: Level of Concern

Post by bcook608 »

Stonecutter wrote: Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:32 pm
YodOfGeast wrote: Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:46 am I'm glad this topic is being covered and grateful for the sensible responses from everyone. My wife says I have my "paranoia bit" flipped permanently on and I do agree with her on that. That said, who knows what might transpire to generate interest in the goings on at your abode. For example, something as innocent as a termite inspection might start some bored dude or gal's mouth running at the local bar...about some strange looking equipment they saw while inspecting a house. The equipment might be innocent home brewing kettles, etc. But, what if some new IRS agent (of the 87,000 new ones just approved by the "Inflation Reduction Act") wants to distinguish themselves and researches still pieces & parts purchased and cross-references that shipping address with the address a-hole at the bar gave them. Stretch? Who knows. The point is something really innocent could lead to some unwanted attention which could lead to a giant federal/state kick in the 'nads.

That has lead me to reevaluating pursuing the art of distilling versus the legal risk. I do not sell or even give any away. I do not tell anyone; my wife is the only one that knows. I distill electrically in my basement out of anyone's sight and I have some aging in oak and other amounts I'm experiment in flavoring with, but total probably less than 5 gallons. Still, the paranoia bit steals some of the joy from the hobby, particularly as I observe the recent questionable FBI raids and the government's hiring of 87k more IRS agents. Anyone think the landscape is changing in light of these events?
Obviously there are cops who are members here.
Be careful and don’t f*ck Uncle Sam and it’ll be ok
I guess I could be considered one of them, if you want to reach a bit.
I work at a prison. Every time I find hooch during a cell search or unit search I just giggle to myself and think "Ha, mine is better!" lol
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