Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash

[schoolmonkey]

I can't find any crushed Oyster shells, and the only one I did find was $150AUD for 2Kg's.

Go to a rural supply store......or maybe even a pet shop, ask for shell grit. People feed it to chickens/ chooks / fowls so that the eggs have healthy hard shells. Its a couple of bucks for a KG or two.
Eggshells will do the same job if all else fails.

Found this at Petbarn, will this work?
https://www.petbarn.com.au/watson-willi ... shell-grit

Or this, which is a medium grain.
https://www.petandgarden.com.au/poultry ... _size-3_kg

[Yummyrum]

Either would work fine

[schoolmonkey]

Either would work fine

Ended up getting the Watson & Williams, $10 for 1KG or $20 for 5KG.
Will start the Wineos tomorrow.

I had a Turbo Pure wash going which seemed to have stalled, threw 1/2 cup of washed shell grit in and within a few minutes it started going again, so I see why you're using it for the Wineo's wash.

[Bren]

About to give this a try so thank you for making my life a lot easier
One question though how much is half a cup just an ish on grams would be great.
Many thanks
Bren

[Bren]

About to give this a try so thank you for making my life a lot easier
One question though how much is half a cup just an ish on grams would be great.
Many thanks
Bren

[greggn]

One question though how much is half a cup just an ish on grams would be great.

1/2 US Cup of crushed oyster shells is about an handful. Don't fret about the volume/weight ... you needn't be exact when adding oyster shells.

[Bren]

Cool as thank you

[Salt Must Flow]

Cool as thank you

Like greggn said, don't sweat the amount. You can't have too much, but you certainly can have not enough. I believe this was mentioned previously, can't remember, but there's a topic where a guy put a big slab of marble I believe in his wash and reused it over and over again. Don't think of dosing with Calcium Carbonate like in a recipe. Use an abundance because it works, can be rinsed, dried and reused.

[Yummyrum]

1/2 a cup weighed in at 130g .

I’ve got tiny hands for a bloke , LOL , it’s about 1 and a half handfuls for me …. I’d use two to be sure .

[NZChris]

Like greggn said, don't sweat the amount. You can't have too much, but you certainly can have not enough.

I know someone who used too much, got called away and couldn't get back to distill it before the pH had gone too high and wrecked the wash. If he had used a block of marble instead of crushed shells, it would have been a lot less likely that he would have had to kick his can over.

[Salt Must Flow]

Like greggn said, don't sweat the amount. You can't have too much, but you certainly can have not enough.

I know someone who used too much, got called away and couldn't get back to distill it before the pH had gone too high and wrecked the wash. If he had used a block of marble instead of crushed shells, it would have been a lot less likely that he would have had to kick his can over.

How high did the ph get? How much did he use in what size wash? How high is "too high"? Was he called away for a day, several days, weeks? Missing all of the context to understand this scenario.

[robe]

I made a 30 l batch and followed the recipe pretty much to the letter. Except added 1 1/2 tsp of gypsum because my water is very soft. An extra 1/2 tsp of nutrient in addition to the 1 tsp of DAP. This is some all in one nutrient I got from a brew supply outfit. Just because. 9 pounds of sugar because it comes in a 4 kg bag. I used the recommended amount of Daddy yeast, that is all I have, plus threw in a few roughly broken clam shells for good measure. I live near the ocean so I have my pick, clam shells are nice and clean right off the beach, a quick clean and they are good to go.
It has been 7 days now and looks finished and quite clear but I will leave it another week just because I always leave my brews for 14 days. My temp is set to 27c and turn on at 26.5c which may be a bit too cool.
The best thing I ever did was buy some brew heating pads and a controller. I put them in a cupboard with an insulating blank to wrap the carboys. No more issues with stalling ever. I have four carboys and try to start a batch of two every week so I always have something on the go.

[robe]

I must say this adventure worked really well. Nice flavor for what it is. I added about 2L of feints to the mix, ran it slow and ended up with about 5L of really good product.
I have been using 250ml jars, so the first 500ml was trash and after that jar four was nice sweet and flavorful the rest came across as strong vodka up to jar 20 was starting to smell of cardboard.
I will definitely make this again next time I have a lot of feints to use. My next plan is some ag with angel yeast, I have a 20KG sack of cracked corn, I need a 1/4 steel plate to put under my big pot to try and keep the burning down.

[Captain Clyde]

Made 200 liters a week ago. Bubbling fervently as I type

[NormandieStill]

Just starting a new batch. Checking my notes, it's been nearly 18 months since I last made a straight sugar wash. Realised as I started that I was out of pure DAP so had to use a nutrient blend for yeast. This also covered the magnesium sulphate requirements, now I just hope that I don't get too many off-flavours from the other stuff in there. It took off as per usual. I'll get another two or three batches going over the next few days and should be swimming in neutral in about a month!

[NormandieStill]

Update: Started another two batches with the same result that I had when I did this the first time around. For the first 6 hours or so of the ferment, I get a hydrogen sulphide (rotten egg) odour coming from the ferment. Then it settles down and goes away. I thought it might have been from pitching a little warm so I changed my technique and pitched at a lower temperature and it's still there. I got it last time when using DAP and this time when using the nutrient mix so I don't think it's that. If I do another batch I'll try and monitor the pH over the start of the run to see if it's a pH issue.

[Dee Envy]

Could it be the Gypsum (Calcium sulfate) and/or the Epsom Salts (Magnesium Sulfate)?

[Salt Must Flow]

Update: Started another two batches with the same result that I had when I did this the first time around. For the first 6 hours or so of the ferment, I get a hydrogen sulphide (rotten egg) odour coming from the ferment. Then it settles down and goes away. I thought it might have been from pitching a little warm so I changed my technique and pitched at a lower temperature and it's still there. I got it last time when using DAP and this time when using the nutrient mix so I don't think it's that. If I do another batch I'll try and monitor the pH over the start of the run to see if it's a pH issue.

What temp was it when you pitched? What yeast did you use? How many gallons? What water did you use (city water, well water)? Did you follow the original recipe to the tee or were there any alterations?

[NormandieStill]

Update: Started another two batches with the same result that I had when I did this the first time around. For the first 6 hours or so of the ferment, I get a hydrogen sulphide (rotten egg) odour coming from the ferment. Then it settles down and goes away. I thought it might have been from pitching a little warm so I changed my technique and pitched at a lower temperature and it's still there. I got it last time when using DAP and this time when using the nutrient mix so I don't think it's that. If I do another batch I'll try and monitor the pH over the start of the run to see if it's a pH issue.

What temp was it when you pitched? What yeast did you use? How many gallons? What water did you use (city water, well water)? Did you follow the original recipe to the tee or were there any alterations?

City water, very hard, pH ~ 7. 25 litres total volume (23L water for 4kg sugar). My only difference from the recipe is the lack of gypsum because I don't have any and my water is super hard. (Boil a litre of water in a saucepan and let it cool and there's a 0.5mm layer of calcium carbonate at the bottom!) Given how rapidly the smell dissipates I suspect I would never even have noticed were it not for the ferments running in my office.

As for temps, I've pitched at anything from 20°C to 30°C and they've all done the same. I suspect that it's a pH swing issue, but I'll have to monitor a ferment far more closely to see. These haven't been running long enough, but my previous batches all finished dry so no problems in the long run. Just interested if I'm alone in noticing this.

[Haurly]

I just started my first WPOSW and wow, that is an accelerated start! Looking forward to the rest of the process and result. This will be pot-stilled in an alembic for use as a neutral spirit base or possibly a tincture base. I'm curious about the effects of missing some ingredients and what a good fermentation temperature is.

I was impatient to get this going and didn't have citric acid or gypsum but did use the DAP and Epsom salts. I'm on well-water that's near ph neutral (7.3) and is pretty hard (16 grains/US gal). From what I've read, having no gypsum should be ok since the hard water has a lot of CaCO3 (276 mg/L) for ph buffering... if I have it right, but I'm not sure about the missing citric acid. Any feedback/advice about these would be appreciated.

The 1/2 cup of Red Star baker's yeast was pitched into wash with SG of 1.064 at about 34C (~93F). The pH was about 5 an hour after adding yeast (using paper strips, no meter). I insulated the primary pail with a towel and let the temperature fall naturally overnight. Room temp is about 17C, by morning the wash was at 23.5C with SG 1.050. I threw on a heating belt to keep temps from getting too low. Is there an optimal temperature for fermentation of this wash, or is it "the quicker the better"?

No rotten egg smells in the first day of ferment, just yeasty goodness and a ton of CO2, lol. I was a bit worried about the magnesium in the Epsom salts because we have the type of bacteria in our water that creates rotten egg odour in hot water from reaction with the magnesium sacrificial anode. Nothing so far and that's good.

[Salt Must Flow]

I just started my first WPOSW and wow, that is an accelerated start! Looking forward to the rest of the process and result. This will be pot-stilled in an alembic for use as a neutral spirit base or possibly a tincture base. I'm curious about the effects of missing some ingredients and what a good fermentation temperature is.

I was impatient to get this going and didn't have citric acid or gypsum but did use the DAP and Epsom salts. I'm on well-water that's near ph neutral (7.3) and is pretty hard (16 grains/US gal). From what I've read, having no gypsum should be ok since the hard water has a lot of CaCO3 (276 mg/L) for ph buffering... if I have it right, but I'm not sure about the missing citric acid. Any feedback/advice about these would be appreciated.

The 1/2 cup of Red Star baker's yeast was pitched into wash with SG of 1.064 at about 34C (~93F). The pH was about 5 an hour after adding yeast (using paper strips, no meter). I insulated the primary pail with a towel and let the temperature fall naturally overnight. Room temp is about 17C, by morning the wash was at 23.5C with SG 1.050. I threw on a heating belt to keep temps from getting too low. Is there an optimal temperature for fermentation of this wash, or is it "the quicker the better"?

No rotten egg smells in the first day of ferment, just yeasty goodness and a ton of CO2, lol. I was a bit worried about the magnesium in the Epsom salts because we have the type of bacteria in our water that creates rotten egg odour in hot water from reaction with the magnesium sacrificial anode. Nothing so far and that's good.

The Citric Acid is to lower the 'initial PH' ideally to 5.2 - 5.6 before pitching yeast. Yeast prefers stability. Stable PH, stable temp, etc... If Citric Acid is not added, the yeast will have to endure a drastic PH drop throughout the first couple days.

Calcium Carbonate is added to buffer the PH. As the PH drops, the Calcium Carbonate keeps the PH from 'crashing' or going so low that the ferment stalls.

[Haurly]

The Citric Acid is to lower the 'initial PH' ideally to 5.2 - 5.6 before pitching yeast. Yeast prefers stability. Stable PH, stable temp, etc... If Citric Acid is not added, the yeast will have to endure a drastic PH drop throughout the first couple days.

Calcium Carbonate is added to buffer the PH. As the PH drops, the Calcium Carbonate keeps the PH from 'crashing' or going so low that the ferment stalls.

OK, thanks for the info Salt, I'll try the citric acid and gypsum in the next batch. Hope the yeast didn't get too stressed during the initial (and continuing) drop.

The pH is about 3 as of this morning if the cheap paper strip is right. Is this ok? Should I correct it?
It's definitely lower than yesterday and in the 3 range. I may have to buy an actual meter to get better accuracy than +/-1 based on a colour guess, lol.

Is there an optimal temperature to ferment at, or just keep it steady and wait for the finish and clearing?
Although there is a lot of discussion on this site about ferment temperature, I couldn't find anything on optimal temperatures for this wash (or others) or for the types of yeast used. Is this a thing?

Sorry for the questions, I have read up on this site and elsewhere, but there is so much information I'm sure I've missed a lot.

[Haurly]

Update on Day 4 of WPOSW fermentation:

• Wash pH seems to have dropped a bit more but it's tough to tell with the paper strips, looks like 2 or between 2 and 3 but the shading at that end of the scale is very close.

• Temp steady at 27C (80.6F) since the heating belt was added.

• SG reading 0.996 currently with decent bubble activity (~72bpm through the airlock, down from 270bpm at the start).

• Flavour has gone from alco-sweet to alco-dry, very little discernible sweetness left (to my palate, anyway).

The pH seems so low from what I've read around here but no stall that I can tell (still bubbling and SG dropping). I didn't add anything to bring pH back up since things were still moving along and SG is now below 1. I'm not 100% confident in accuracy of the strips, or maybe my interpretation of the colours, but I'm not colour blind and don't think I'm missing by that much.

Looking back: I may have snuck by a stall by the skin of my teeth.
Looking ahead (with even more reading jammed into my already too-full head): Next time I'll add the citric acid and gypsum, and will try pitching at a lower temp then raising temp, as suggested here:

Sugar wash will drop in PH within the first 24 hrs if it is started at Ph of less than 5.. starting the wash at a Ph of 5 by adding citric acid, and the Ph will drop very little, and less calcium carbonate will be needed to bring the Ph back to 4.5..

Also pitch the yeast, if using baker's yeast, at a starting temp of about 82 - 83*F for the first 12 hrs, then raise it to 85*F, and along with a starting Ph of 5, the Ph will stay in the 4.5 rate..

Might need to insulate with more than a towel to get to 85F, don't want to turn up the house furnace : )

All thoughts and feedback welcome, cheers!

[olddog newtricks]

Had a pop at this last night
23lt
4.6kg Sugar
1tsp DAP
1tsp Citric Acid
1/2tsp Epsom Salts
75g Dried Bakers Yeast
120g Crushed Oyster Shell
SG 1070
22c

First time as this and proper cold in the UK just now so got a heater set a 22c to keep it going

Forgot to check ph level SG was 1070

Added crushed oyster shell in a hops bag and dropped it in, should I have hung it up?

Started well and bubbling away great guns this morning will give it a week see what it does

[Yummyrum]

22°C is at the cooler end of what Bakers yeast likes .
Might take a few weeks to ferment out . If you can crank up the heat at least another 5° will help heaps

[olddog newtricks]

Thanks I will go raise the heater see if it can bring it up, the air temp is colder so harder work

[olddog newtricks]

Well found the issue my heater was faulty keep cutting off and not coming back on.
replaced and just under 2 weeks went from
SG 1070
FG 0920

Starting to clear not the usual cloudy I get from other recipes, I used crushed oyster shells for first time seems to do the trick, have taken them out as read that leaving them in too lo,mg causes issues?
leaving it another week or to clear then will siphon it out.
So far this looks like a winner for the kit and environment I have.

Thanks for the recipe!

[Yummyrum]

Glad you found a problem you were able to fix OD NT
OG of 0.920 does seem a bit low though . 0.990 would be closer to a dry wash I would have expected .

[olddog newtricks]

Glad you found a problem you were able to fix OD NT
OG of 0.920 does seem a bit low though . 0.990 would be closer to a dry wash I would have expected .

oops typo on my part 0992 not 0920!