There are some confusions in my mind.
I have seen different designs of liquid management unit.
Below are some examples of Russian-made items.
I want to know whether there is any difference between these designs?
How do these units differ in terms of performance? which one is better?
spiritdistiller123 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 6:26 am
There are some confusions in my mind.
I have seen different designs of liquid management unit.
Below are some examples of Russian-made items.
I want to know whether there is any difference between these designs?
How do these units differ in terms of performance? which one is better?
Yes there are difference in term of performance from what I've experience with LM's, but before I take the time to explain where and why, are you from the US or europe, as there is a simple design yet and some pictured I would touch..
Mars
" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "
StillerBoy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 9:18 am
Yes there are difference in term of performance from what I've experience with LM's, but before I take the time to explain where and why, are you from the US or europe, as there is a simple design yet and some pictured I would touch..
Mars
Could you please explain the difference between them? and also that simple design?
I am from Iran.
What do you mean.by performance? Are you after neutral or ????
By itself changing the top won't make the still run faster assuming your condenser is enough. The column and boiler energy limit speed.
The bigger the puddle of reflux or product the more the heads and tails will smear into the hearts.
As you make a run the etoh is depleted from the boiler. Most designs require a little adjustment to increase reflux to maintain quality. This is always pretty easy.
Some designs prioritize reflux and gather product as an overflow of reflux. These require less adjustment as you run. This imo is a pretty minor thing on a pot still but a HUGE deal for continuous.
Imo the offset 45 design is the simplest.
Now I know how you claim azeo so easy, it's based on a meat thermometer. :lol:
Guidance was provided but you drop the ball on continuing the thread.. so what style of still are looking at making since you have a CM and some kind of LM.. all CM, VM, LM are capable stills of achieving what you have stated many in your post, they just require learning how to operate them, without that learning, the still(s) will not provide you with the purity are looking for..
Mars
" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "
drmiller100 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 10:33 am
I know nothing about flavor or taste.
What do you mean.by performance? Are you after neutral or ????
By itself changing the top won't make the still run faster assuming your condenser is enough. The column and boiler energy limit speed.
The bigger the puddle of reflux or product the more the heads and tails will smear into the hearts.
As you make a run the etoh is depleted from the boiler. Most designs require a little adjustment to increase reflux to maintain quality. This is always pretty easy.
Some designs prioritize reflux and gather product as an overflow of reflux. These require less adjustment as you run. This imo is a pretty minor thing on a pot still but a HUGE deal for continuous.
Imo the offset 45 design is the simplest.
Hi drmiller,
Yes, my goal is neutral and by performance I mean anything related to the speed of take-off (96.6%). and if these designs are related to the quality of the product. I mean better separation of different alcohols from ethanol.
So, you mean it is better to decrease the puddle of reflux in these designs. right?
Guidance was provided but you drop the ball on continuing the thread.. so what style of still are looking at making since you have a CM and some kind of LM.. all CM, VM, LM are capable stills of achieving what you have stated many in your post, they just require learning how to operate them, without that learning, the still(s) will not provide you with the purity are looking for..
Mars
Actually these are not the same. in that thread I asked about automating LM and I got my answer.
Here, I want to know about the difference between the various designs of LM.
these two are different to me. maybe I am wrong I dont know.
I am able to achieve my goal with CM and LM (slanted plates) and I get 96.6% neutral (0.8l/h). I want to try different LM designs if they have better performance compared to mine
drmiller100 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 10:33 am
I know nothing about flavor or taste.
What do you mean.by performance? Are you after neutral or ????
By itself changing the top won't make the still run faster assuming your condenser is enough. The column and boiler energy limit speed.
The bigger the puddle of reflux or product the more the heads and tails will smear into the hearts.
As you make a run the etoh is depleted from the boiler. Most designs require a little adjustment to increase reflux to maintain quality. This is always pretty easy.
Some designs prioritize reflux and gather product as an overflow of reflux. These require less adjustment as you run. This imo is a pretty minor thing on a pot still but a HUGE deal for continuous.
Imo the offset 45 design is the simplest.
Hi drmiller,
Yes, my goal is neutral and by performance I mean anything related to the speed of take-off (96.6%). and if these designs are related to the quality of the product. I mean better separation of different alcohols from ethanol.
So, you mean it is better to decrease the puddle of reflux in these designs. right?
Yes. The smaller the pools the better.
Have you considered continuous distillation?
A downside is you have to figure out how to get rid of the fores. Upside is 2 gallons per hour of neutral.
Now I know how you claim azeo so easy, it's based on a meat thermometer. :lol:
drmiller100 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 1:23 pm
Yes. The smaller the pools the better.
Have you considered continuous distillation?
A downside is you have to figure out how to get rid of the fores. Upside is 2 gallons per hour of neutral.
Talk about confusing someone or someone being confused..
The size of the pool has really nothing to do with purity and smearing.. the take off rate is the one having an effect on those behaviors in any operation of a still..
As to the downside of getting rid of the fores, they are in the distillate across the run at the hobby level, and achieving 2 gallon per hr of neutral, what size and length of refllux column are talking about to accomplish such, not discounting the kind and size of packing.. vague statements creating confusion is an expression of lack of understanding..
Mars
" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "
drmiller100 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 1:23 pm
Yes. The smaller the pools the better.
Have you considered continuous distillation?
A downside is you have to figure out how to get rid of the fores. Upside is 2 gallons per hour of neutral.
No, it is not continuous. 2 gallons per hour is too much even for a 4 inch diameter column (if there is enough height to reach that purity)
StillerBoy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 1:49 pm
Talk about confusing someone or someone being confused..
The size of the pool has really nothing to do with purity and smearing.. the take off rate is the one having an effect on those behaviors in any operation of a still..
As to the downside of getting rid of the fores, they are in the distillate across the run at the hobby level, and achieving 2 gallon per hr of neutral, what size and length of refllux column are talking about to accomplish such, not discounting the kind and size of packing.. vague statements creating confusion is an expression of lack of understanding..
Mars
you said that there are differences between the pictures that I've attached. but you didn't explain that. would you please talk a little about them and your experience?
spiritdistiller123 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 2:08 pm
would you please talk a little about them and your experience?
As to the experience with operating an LM, it's been pointed out in the link already posted in a prior post above, and the link provides all the info necessary..
As to a simpler design, once comprehension of how an LM is to be operated for efficiency, it will be detailed at such time, as it would be a waste of my time to do so without comprehension/understanding of the operational part..
Mars
" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "
spiritdistiller123 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 2:08 pm
would you please talk a little about them and your experience?
As to the experience with operating an LM, it's been pointed out in the link already posted in a prior post above, and the link provides all the info necessary..
As to a simpler design, once comprehension of how an LM is to be operated for efficiency, it will be detailed at such time, as it would be a waste of my time to do so without comprehension/understanding of the operational part..
Mars
Let's review your contributions to this thread.
First post. :I know it all but am too busy to answer you now.
Second post. I already gifted you with all the knowledge you need.
Third post. I'm confused as I don't know how to do the things you descrzibe
Fourth post. It would be a waste of my time as I've never operated a still.
And there is the gist. You've never run a still yet you continue to shit upon others threads with pompous attitude.
Arrogant I can take. Hell, I can be arrogant.
But I try to remember there are others on this forum who have a lot more knowledge about distilling than I.
Last edited by drmiller100 on Sun Jul 24, 2022 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Now I know how you claim azeo so easy, it's based on a meat thermometer. :lol:
There are some confusions in my mind.
I have seen different designs of liquid management unit.
Below are some examples of Russian-made items.
I want to know whether there is any difference between these designs?
How do these units differ in terms of performance? which one is better?
Thanks in advance.
Hi! Your pictures finally came through on my Mac here in Oregon.
I would tell you there is little to no difference in the performance of LM parts in your pics. They do show levels of complexity and price to attract different buyers. You really don't "NEED" a sight glass. The part with the "X" wire at the bottom is for the column to hold the packing in. It is not a LM head.
P1050284.JPG
The 45* LM head in the photo above will work as well as any Russian LM head and since you do the small amount of work to make it, it will probably be cheaper.
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StillerBoy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 2:23 pm
As to the experience with operating an LM, it's been pointed out in the link already posted in a prior post above, and the link provides all the info necessary..
As to a simpler design, once comprehension of how an LM is to be operated for efficiency, it will be detailed at such time, as it would be a waste of my time to do so without comprehension/understanding of the operational part..
Hi! Your pictures finally came through on my Mac here in Oregon.
I would tell you there is little to no difference in the performance of LM parts in your pics. They do show levels of complexity and price to attract different buyers. You really don't "NEED" a sight glass. The part with the "X" wire at the bottom is for the column to hold the packing in. It is not a LM head.
P1050284.JPG
The 45* LM head in the photo above will work as well as any Russian LM head and since you do the small amount of work to make it, it will probably be cheaper.
Hi bunny,
I can't agree with you more . I have the same opinion about these LM units as well and I just wanted to ask others opinions.
"They do show levels of complexity and price to attract different buyers" you can say that again bro.
Yes I know that X wire is not an LM head. I just wanted to show the units in the front row in that picture.
But about sight glass I have different opinion. I think when you are using tiny packing (such as spp) it can be helpful as you can observe the process and if there is any flooding in the column you can notice that. Even for adjusting the power of heater, I think sight glass can be helpful. When there is a phlegm on your packing, you can see that and reduce the power in order to eliminate that phlegm. If I am mistaken, please correct me.
you can see this in this video: from 3:20 to 4:35. You can understand what's happening in the video, even though it's in Russian (I don't know Russian too).
drmiller100 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 2:49 pm
What bunny said. Times 2. I use a very similar design
I would suggest a temperature gauge at the top of the column. I use Walmart meat thermometers with a cable on it for easy reading.
Thank you too
What do you exactly mean by "at the top of the column". I want to place a thermometer 4 inches down from the top of the packing as you suggested in my previous post. I think this is the best place for LM stills, unless you can conduct the reflux somehow that there is no contact between the thermometer probe and reflux.
drmiller100 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 2:49 pm
What bunny said. Times 2. I use a very similar design
I would suggest a temperature gauge at the top of the column. I use Walmart meat thermometers with a cable on it for easy reading.
Thank you too
What do you exactly mean by "at the top of the column". I want to place a thermometer 4 inches down from the top of the packing as you suggested in my previous post. I think this is the best place for LM stills, unless you can conduct the reflux somehow that there is no contact between the thermometer probe and reflux.
Rolling your eyes in your upper post annoyed me. Made me think I was wasting my time with another know it all who had never TRIED anything.
You are smart. Your questions now are at the level you will quickly figure out this stuff when you start running a still.
Now I know how you claim azeo so easy, it's based on a meat thermometer. :lol:
drmiller100 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 4:01 pm
Rolling your eyes in your upper post annoyed me. Made me think I was wasting my time with another know it all who had never TRIED anything.
You are smart. Your questions now are at the level you will quickly figure out this stuff when you start running a still.
My apologies if you felt annoyed. nothing personal. I know that I know nothing about distillation. A complex issue such as distillation makes me feel too annoyed when I do not have academic knowledge about it. Maybe some day I start to read university books about distillation. Maybe that day you can call me "know it all" (kidding). but at the moment I have no time to do that.
drmiller100 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 10:33 am
Imo the offset 45 design is the simplest.
The design has a couple good qualities.
It has a small cup, to reduce smearing.
100% of the RC reflux is directed into the cup, that lets you run the LM at low reflux ratios, like a CM.
All the reflux that spills from the cup, is directed to the center of the packing.
But about sight glass I have different opinion. I think when you are using tiny packing (such as spp) it can be helpful as you can observe the process and if there is any flooding in the column you can notice that. Even for adjusting the power of heater, I think sight glass can be helpful. When there is a phlegm on your packing, you can see that and reduce the power in order to eliminate that phlegm. If I am mistaken, please correct me.
I like your 45 Offset LM
Sorry, I should have said "I" no longer need a sight glass. My experimental work the past two years has given me a relatively accurate understanding of what's going on in my columns. Once you learn how your rig works, many others could probably get by quite comfortably with out one. It would be great if you could just borrow your buddies sight glass until you knew what you were doing. A sight glass on test equipment doesn't have to be too spendy or even meet Mars' approval.
A few pictures of home made test equipment sight glass:
P1050142.JPG
P1050146.JPG
P1050047.jpg
P1050173.JPG
And then there's this:
FB_IMG_1520653404258.jpg
p.s. I hope our definitions of "phlegm" are different.
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Not wanting to highjack a good thread about LM designs.
But, It took a couple shots of moonshine to figure what I was looking at.
Nice job using a pocket watch and springs for a sight glass.
P1050146.JPG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
spiritdistiller123 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 4:26 pm
I know that I know nothing about distillation. A complex issue such as distillation makes me feel too annoyed when I do not have academic knowledge about it. Maybe some day I start to read university books about distillation.
Home distillation is similar to cooking food.
It's more about practice than academic knowledge.
bunny wrote: ↑Sun Jul 24, 2022 8:23 pm
Once you learn how your rig works, many others could probably get by quite comfortably with out one.
Until relatively recent times everybody did without one right from the start.........its really not that hard.
I find no value in a sight glass. If the column floods you know it right quick!!!!!
I'm sure they can probably make things a little easier when your learning , My point is it seems to be getting so that people seem think you cant run a reflux without a sight glass which is complete rubbish.
. I have the same opinion about these LM units as well and I just wanted to ask others opinions.
