Calcium Carbonate

[Acidgut]

I recently did a sugar wash (45 liters water, 12kg sugar and 145g bakers yeast) starting ph was 6.1 after day 3, ph was 3.2.
I have a fair amount of calcium Carbonate so i gradually added it until ph was up to 5.4.
The thing is i had to add 280g of calcium Carbonate in total to achieve this. Is this an excessive amount of calcium Carbonate?
I also read calcium Carbonate can release ammonia during distillation. Is this correct and will using calcium Carbonate in my wash do any damage to my still during distillation?

[Chauncey]

Just hang a bag of oyster shell in the fermenter next time. Sodium carbonate/bicarbonate are the ones that release ammonia.

[still_stirrin]

… The thing is i had to add 280g of calcium Carbonate in total to achieve this. Is this an excessive amount of calcium Carbonate?

It could be, depending on the size of your ferment. Or, it might be OK.

Calcium is good for the yeast metabolism. But, calcium hydroxide is a much stronger base. Calcium hydroxide (pickling lime) can be found in the canning section of your grocery store. You won’t need near as much calcium hydroxide as you do calcium carbonate and the reaction time is much quicker. I always hydrate the hydroxide (a powder) with distilled water (make a paint-like slurry) before adding it to the ferment.

I also read calcium Carbonate can release ammonia during distillation. Is this correct and will using calcium Carbonate in my wash do any damage to my still during distillation?

Ammonia (NH3) would need nitrogen in the chemical reaction. Calcium carbonate (CaCO3) doesn’t add nitrogen (N), so I don’t see how it could produce ammonia.

Adding either the carbonate or hydroxide won’t adversely affect the distillation process. Excess calcium carbonate will just settle if it’s not consumed by the acid reduction reaction.
ss

[bilgriss]

There's plenty of free nitrogen in ferments, but I can't see how CaCO3 would react in any manner to produce ammonia. It is possible to get ammonia in certain cases of purely anaerobic bacterial contamination, but I think that's outside of this topic entirely.

[Ben]

NH3 from CaCO3 fears aside...

You don't need a pH of 5.4 for yeast to work well, they thrive at 4-6 and will still work into the 3's. I think you might have gotten confused from the brewery side of things, 5.4 is a mash pH target. Follow one of the T&T sugar wash recipes and you will be good to go. Here is a good one: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6782

[NZChris]

Anything capable of taking the pH much over 7 can wreck a wash or dunder pit. That's why I stick to using whole shells or a block of marble and have a way to remove them when the ferment finishes.

[Salt Must Flow]

I recently did a sugar wash (45 liters water, 12kg sugar and 145g bakers yeast) starting ph was 6.1 after day 3, ph was 3.2.
I have a fair amount of calcium Carbonate so i gradually added it until ph was up to 5.4.
The thing is i had to add 280g of calcium Carbonate in total to achieve this. Is this an excessive amount of calcium Carbonate?
I also read calcium Carbonate can release ammonia during distillation. Is this correct and will using calcium Carbonate in my wash do any damage to my still during distillation?

From what I've read, you should add Citric Acid to a wash until the pH is 5.2 - 5.6 then suspend a fat mesh sack of crushed oyster shell in the wash which will buffer the ph and maintain approx 4.5 ph until fermentation is complete. I've read the chemistry of this, but do not have a link to the explanation. This has worked for me in my experience and it avoids ph crashes. I bought a cheapo digital ph meter on Amazon and it seems to work great. Occasionally I'll test it with the calibration solution and it has not been off since the day I bought it.

Powder calcium carbonate didn't seem to work anywhere near as well as crushed oyster shell. If I knew of a source of whole oyster shell, I'd probably buy it, but crushed oyster shell is plentiful and reasonably priced. I believe you really should use a mesh sack and not a sock or fabric as it restricts the fluid exposure to the oyster shell and restricts its ability to buffer the wash.

[NZChris]

Finely ground calcium carbonate reacts with the acids in a wash much faster than does a block of marble, whole shells, a bag of chicken grit, etc., because the surface area exposed to the acids in the wash is much larger. It ain't rocket science.

[Chauncey]

I can get oyster shells like nothing here. I have a lady does oysters on the half shell, chargrilled, or fried oyster poboys every week on my Friday shifts, I throw out 100 shells easy by midnight.

[Acidgut]

Thank you all.

[lest1]

Anything capable of taking the pH much over 7 can wreck a wash or dunder pit. That's why I stick to using whole shells or a block of marble and have a way to remove them when the ferment finishes.

Hey NZChris

Just wondering the benefit of removing the shells or marble when the ferment is complete

[bunny]

I recently did a sugar wash (45 liters water, 12kg sugar and 145g bakers yeast) starting ph was 6.1 after day 3, ph was 3.2.
I have a fair amount of calcium Carbonate so i gradually added it until ph was up to 5.4.
The thing is i had to add 280g of calcium Carbonate in total to achieve this. Is this an excessive amount of calcium Carbonate?
I also read calcium Carbonate can release ammonia during distillation. Is this correct and will using calcium Carbonate in my wash do any damage to my still during distillation?

I break most "Rules Of Thumb".

My water is very soft, yet measures 7.6 or so pH out the tap.
In my standard 12 gallon sugar wash (16lb sugar) I'm currently adding 4 tablespoons of CaCO3 powder that I get from eBay. 20lb CaCO3 powder in a priority mail box from a guy in Idaho. My starting pH remains close to 7.6 and goes down close to 4.0 in 24 hours. It's been finishing about 3.7 pH dry(0.99) in 36-48 hours. I pitch a cup of bakers yeast and run at 95-99f.

As Ben stated above, you do not NEED to be at 4, 5, or 6 pH during your ferment, you NEED to be above the stall pH at the end. How you do that is pretty much up to you.

[NZChris]

Anything capable of taking the pH much over 7 can wreck a wash or dunder pit. That's why I stick to using whole shells or a block of marble and have a way to remove them when the ferment finishes.

Hey NZChris

Just wondering the benefit of removing the shells or marble when the ferment is complete

None, as long as life doesn't get in the way and prevent you distilling it before the pH goes too high. If you are a lazy bugger and are in the habit of putting stuff off until you get around to it, pull the CC out.

[lest1]

Anything capable of taking the pH much over 7 can wreck a wash or dunder pit. That's why I stick to using whole shells or a block of marble and have a way to remove them when the ferment finishes.

Hey NZChris

Just wondering the benefit of removing the shells or marble when the ferment is complete

None, as long as life doesn't get in the way and prevent you distilling it before the pH goes too high. If you are a lazy bugger and are in the habit of putting stuff off until you get around to it, pull the CC out.

Thanks ill start doing that, I leave my washes a month between start to finish usually

[bcook608]

Well shit, guess I'll have to see how my UJSSM is doing. Forgot to pull the oyster grit when it was done and it's been sitting for some weeks... silver lining is that there shouldn't have been much left in there anyway so hopefully it'll be alright.

[Saltbush Bill]

Forgot to pull the oyster grit when it was done and it's been sitting for some weeks

UJSSM shouldn't need any shell grit , use the right amount of backset and it will go happily for generation after generation without the need for grit, shells or any other buffer.

[NZChris]

Thanks ill start doing that, I leave my washes a month between start to finish usually

You're probably better off not putting it in in the first place. You only need it for washes that have a history of giving you problems.

[StillerBoy]

I recently did a sugar wash (45 liters water, 12kg sugar and 145g bakers yeast) starting ph was 6.1 after day 3, ph was 3.2.
I have a fair amount of calcium Carbonate so i gradually added it until ph was up to 5.4.
The thing is i had to add 280g of calcium Carbonate in total to achieve this. Is this an excessive amount of calcium Carbonate?

I would have to say that 280g of calcium carbonate used in a 45L batch is more than excessive base on my experience, plus raising the Ph to a 5.4 is not required..

Here's the issue, sugar wash are know for a rapid Ph drop within hrs of a ferment started, and if not checked within the 12 to 24 hrs, there is a great possibility of stalling the wash or at the very least, prolonging the fermentation period..

When I do 52L batch, I will use about 6 tsp at the 12 hr, and another 4 - 6 tsp at the 24 hr, working the Ph back to a Ph of 4.. starting a wash at the Ph of 6 - 6.5 is a good range, as it will not foam as much at startup versa starting one at lower Ph like 5.5..

Mars

[NZChris]

Do you think it will have a big impact on this batch? I'm going to run it regardless, just wondering.

I wouldn't know. Keep good notes to refer back to. My notes are are worth more to me than anyone else's opinion.

Most of my ferments don't get any form of CC, as I only use it if it's necessary. If I want to use a lot of backset in UJSSM or rum, I put large shells in to behave as a buffer during the ferment, weighing the shells before and after and recording the weights in my notes.

[Saltbush Bill]

I've had the same UJSSM rolling along generation after generation for 10 years now ... I've never needed to use grit, shells or anything else in it.......nor do I own a PH meter.
As stated all that is needed is the correct amount of backset.

[EricTheRed]

Tried cc once. Nah.
Rather use 20% rolled and cooked oars treated with enzymes before adding sugar. ph stays good above 4
Tastes better too

Edit: - well, i have no idea what oars taste like - but the oats taste pretty good

[The Baker]

Tried cc once. Nah.
Rather use 20% rolled and cooked oars treated with enzymes before adding sugar. ph stays good above 4
Tastes better too

Oars??

Eric the Red, you were thinking of your drekkar, your Viking warship, perhaps...

Geoff

[EricTheRed]

Tried cc once. Nah.
Rather use 20% rolled and cooked oars treated with enzymes before adding sugar. ph stays good above 4
Tastes better too

Oars??

Eric the Red, you were thinking of your drekkar, your Viking warship, perhaps...

Geoff

Oars!
Sowed some wild oats on that one!
(Will edit it)