4 inches is not always 4 inches

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CoogeeBoy
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4 inches is not always 4 inches

Post by CoogeeBoy »

This is my vent.
I now have some 4 inch copper pipe and am slowly buying parts to build a flute.
Apart from the fact that it is cheaper to buy sight glass kits than build your own sight glass (2" brass fittings are bloody expensive as are the brass connector unions) it is also easier to source!

Finally, my 4 inch copper is pretty well 100mm internal and 102 external diameter, so lets go looking for ferrules (to make my life a little more simple, don't worry, I was thinking about making one and then getting it cast but I suspect that too would now be even more expensive).

Problem is of course, all the different standards.....4 inch ferrules can be anywhere from 98mm OD to 102OD!

Anyway, enough of my vent, at least I have found some but they are not cheap at AUD25 a pop. Making this proposed build look a lot more expensive than I was hoping but still cheaper than buying a...still (pun intended)
Taking a break while I get a new still completed....
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Yummyrum
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Re: 4 inches is not always 4 inches

Post by Yummyrum »

Coogee
Thats interesting . I’ve always found that Aussie 4” is 4” OD . The ID changes depending on if its high pressure stuff or the thinner DWV stuff .

As far as ferrules , all the stainless ones I have bought from Aussie suppliers are always 4” OD .

So an Aussie builder can’t slip a ferrule inside a 4” pipe like you see the Americans doing it on this forum .

A 4”ferrule will fit into an Aussie 4”Tee or an Aussie 4” coupler . Infact , if to want to put a ferrule onto a piece of 4” pipe , you should use a coupler . Either that , or ypu need to buy an expander . You then first need to anneal the 4” pipe to soften it then use the expander to stretch it to go over a ferrule .

Another option .

Emptyglass at Copper Custom Still components makes and sells these 4” expanded pressed ferrules . Not the cheapest option , but being copper , they are easy to solder and fit Aussie copper .
AF1044C8-545A-46FE-83D5-FFD90EC328B8.jpeg
AF1044C8-545A-46FE-83D5-FFD90EC328B8.jpeg (10.57 KiB) Viewed 894 times
He also sells 2” ones that can be turned into sight glasses .

Edit : just went for walk to shed.

This is a stainless 4” ferrule bought from an Aussie supplier . I had to use a 4” coupler to join it to the 4-2” reducer . The 4” end of that reducer is 4” OD , same as all other Aussie 4” . The 2” end however is expanded to take 2”pipe .
969C2DF0-8DBF-4662-B1CC-F5438A8C8694.jpeg
Here is one of Emptyglasses expanded copper ferules on a piece of 4” ( It didn’t look this tarnished when it arrived , I’ve just been slack and haven’t used it yet ) . As you can see , its a bit easier than buggering around with a ferrule and a coupler .
F53AE987-25E1-4CD8-A6FA-ABD1163861DF.jpeg

So the only problem I see you are having , is looking at wrong spec SS ferrules . All 4” ferules have always been and should be 4” OD . It’s the “new overseas suppliers “ that are fucking about with the standard and confusing folk .
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Windy City
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Re: 4 inches is not always 4 inches

Post by Windy City »

I have used quite a few of the Still Dragon copper ferrules.
They are sized the same as copper fittings so 4" copper pipe fits nicely inside and easy to solder.

https://stilldragon.com/4-copper-ez-flange.html
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bitter
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Re: 4 inches is not always 4 inches

Post by bitter »

Might be related to copper od and id if different types

https://www.petersenproducts.com/Copper ... s/1979.htm

Wall thickness is different.

B
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Windy City
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Re: 4 inches is not always 4 inches

Post by Windy City »

bitter wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 6:32 am Might be related to copper od and id if different types

https://www.petersenproducts.com/Copper ... s/1979.htm

Wall thickness is different.

B
But the OD remains the same
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: 4 inches is not always 4 inches

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Dunno where you are sourcing your parts Coogee but Yummy right.....everything here that I've ever bought fits everything else.
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bitter
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Re: 4 inches is not always 4 inches

Post by bitter »

Windy City wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 9:21 am
bitter wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 6:32 am Might be related to copper od and id if different types

https://www.petersenproducts.com/Copper ... s/1979.htm

Wall thickness is different.

B
But the OD remains the same
Depends were the furrel fits my 3 inch Inside dwv fit inside not outside
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Yummyrum
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Re: 4 inches is not always 4 inches

Post by Yummyrum »

Windy City wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 9:21 am
bitter wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 6:32 am Might be related to copper od and id if different types

https://www.petersenproducts.com/Copper ... s/1979.htm

Wall thickness is different.

B
But the OD remains the same
Correct in the USA where your OD is 1/8” larger than the nominal size . IE , US 4” is really 4 1/8” .

Coogee is in Australia where the OD also remains the same but it is the exact size . So 4” is actually 4” OD .

Where we in Aussie get frustrated , is looking at the guys in US simply bashing a SS ferrule into a piece of pipe .

I guess we all have to learn to deal with what we have locally .
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Re: 4 inches is not always 4 inches

Post by NormandieStill »

Yummyrum wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 4:34 pm .
I guess we all have to learn to deal with what we have locally .
Here in France I can't get past 54mm as plumbing pipe. After that it's possible to get 80mm copper drainpipe for guttering but you'll be lucky if it's round and it probably has a folded seam.
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: 4 inches is not always 4 inches

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Damn that would be frustrating , can you order larger sizes in from England, or some other close country without it costing a fortune ?
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Yummyrum
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Re: 4 inches is not always 4 inches

Post by Yummyrum »

NormandieStill wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 9:11 pm
Yummyrum wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 4:34 pm .
I guess we all have to learn to deal with what we have locally .
Here in France I can't get past 54mm as plumbing pipe. After that it's possible to get 80mm copper drainpipe for guttering but you'll be lucky if it's round and it probably has a folded seam.
Absolutely that would suck Normandie.
I guess , if you wanted to make copper modules for a plated still , you could split , anneal and bend lengths of 54mm to make larger sections . Pain in the arse , but a work around . Good thing is you could roll to suit OD of SS ferrules . :ebiggrin:

I think it was ACfixer , but I could be wrong , that made a 6” still by using that method as he couldn’t easily get 6” and had a pile of 2” . ….or maybe it was 3” .

I guess thin 80mm drain copper , even if it had a seam , would still make a reasonable 3” packed reflux still .I often think we over engineer our stills making them out of really thick copper . Totally pointless really . I’m sure most packed columns would survive the life of a home distiller if rolled from sheet copper . …. We just love to copy whats already out there ….. which is stills made from heavy gauge pipe ….. totally not necessary …. but I digress
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bitter
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Re: 4 inches is not always 4 inches

Post by bitter »

Ouch sounds like a PITA :( why are these things not standard across the world :(
NormandieStill
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Re: 4 inches is not always 4 inches

Post by NormandieStill »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Tue Aug 02, 2022 12:33 am Damn that would be frustrating , can you order larger sizes in from England, or some other close country without it costing a fortune ?
Brexit put paid to UK purchases and I've not looked but I don't think that high volume copper is a thing here. Waste pipe is PVC (and has been for some time) and most modern builds use PER / PEX for nearly all the plumbing.

I'll cross that bridge when I decide that I absolutely have to have a plated still, or 3" column for making lots of neutral fast. I've only got a 30L boiler so scaling up the column seems a little pointless. I've got a length of 2" that's destined to become a shotgun condenser but I'm not sure when that's going to happen.
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CoogeeBoy
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Re: 4 inches is not always 4 inches

Post by CoogeeBoy »

Thank you all for your input.
Yes it looks like a lot of the oversized ferrules were sourced from O/S but I have found a manufacturer in the Barossa Valley that has exactly what I am looking for and at a reasonable price.
They also sell sight glasses so I have placed my orders and await my materials!

Will post a pick once I have everything lined up.

All the best everyone.
Taking a break while I get a new still completed....
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shadylane
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Re: 4 inches is not always 4 inches

Post by shadylane »

Yummyrum wrote: Mon Aug 01, 2022 4:34 pm
I guess we all have to learn to deal with what we have locally .
When you say locally, I think of my scrap pile. :lol:
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