Mini shotgun.

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Knife_man
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Mini shotgun.

Post by Knife_man »

I've finished my experimental mini shotgun condenser.

The old liebig on my pot still was barely coping it COULD knock down all the vapours at full power on a stripping run but only using a insane amount of water (my area has just tonight been declared as being in a drought co-incidence ? :roll: ) and it would come out warm and/or chug. Meaning I've been doing my stripping runs on lower power.

I didn't want to have a great big long liebig for several reasons so I decided to TRY a mini shotgun. I just so happened to have 1/2 a coil of 6mm pipe left over from my Boka coil.

It's 6 peices of approx 380mm (15")long 6mm(1/4") pipe in a 22mm (7/8") "shell".

I temporarily hooked it up to my boiler (filled with water) as I didn't want to go to the effort of building a new column until I knew it worked and so far it's performed stunningly able to knock everything down and cool the output with just the smallest trickle.

It was a absolute pain to make though , or rather fixing all the leaks was a pain , ended up using compressed air to find them as I get fed up of filling it with water and draining it down. Perhaps if I'd done a better job of soldering the plates first time round

One of the plates
20220813_084825.jpg
I had to drill the middle hole after the outside pipes were soldered in otherwise it would just tear out. In fact I wasn't going to bother with a 6th pipe but realised there was JUST room for one more.

Pipes and plates joined
20220812_093054.jpg
20220812_093045.jpg
Whole thing assembled next to the old inadequate one as you can see its only a fraction longer ,excuse the messy work not had chance to clean it up.
20220813_012824(1).jpg
View down big end.
20220813_012907.jpg
And little end
20220813_012855.jpg
I would have liked to get some twist in as well but couldn't figure out a good way of doing it. Overall I'm impressed by the increase in efficiency for just an extra couple of inches in legnth is amazing.

I know that their is a risk on blocking such small tubes but I don't intend to load any solids into my boiler AND the chance of all 6 being blocked at once is quite slim AND the cap on my column is not solidly attached so would pop off in the event of any pressure build up. So I'm not too worried.

I'll continue to carefully test as I do the cleaning runs.
Last edited by Knife_man on Sat Aug 13, 2022 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
StillerBoy
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Re: Mini shotgun.

Post by StillerBoy »

KnifeMan Would be interesting to see what you have done.. but you need to re-post your pictures using the site method of attaching pictures.. and while you are at it, delete the ones posted requiring a request..

Attaching a picture.. scroll down to attachment, click on it, then add file, find the file and add it..

Mars
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Salt Must Flow
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Re: Mini shotgun.

Post by Salt Must Flow »

Yeah I can't see the pics, but I can't wait to see them once fixed. A shotgun condenser is a really great tool, especially for stripping runs. It's an accomplishment and once completed, you'll appreciate it.

It would be really cool to have the tubes spiral. I've seen a topic where a guy did spiral his and had a clear outer jacket so you could see the spirals. I don't know how he did it, but it was pretty cool. Spiraling the tubes would add additional length to the tubes, but I'm not sure it the additional length would enough to make it worth the hassle other than to know that you've optimized it the best you could.
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Re: Mini shotgun.

Post by still_stirrin »

Salt Must Flow wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:29 pm Yeah I can't see the pics, but I can't wait to see them once fixed. A shotgun condenser is a really great tool, especially for stripping runs. It's an accomplishment and once completed, you'll appreciate it.

It would be really cool to have the tubes spiral. I've seen a topic where a guy did spiral his and had a clear outer jacket so you could see the spirals. I don't know how he did it, but it was pretty cool. Spiraling the tubes would add additional length to the tubes, but I'm not sure it the additional length would enough to make it worth the hassle other than to know that you've optimized it the best you could.
Mash Rookie. I think Bushman has that condenser. Worth asking him.
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Re: Mini shotgun.

Post by Knife_man »

StillerBoy wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:01 pm KnifeMan Would be interesting to see what you have done.. but you need to re-post your pictures using the site method of attaching pictures.. and while you are at it, delete the ones posted requiring a request..

Attaching a picture.. scroll down to attachment, click on it, then add file, find the file and add it..

Mars
Apologies , I'll try again.

That should be all fixed now , it's been a while since I used a forum. I'll get the hand of it .
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Re: Mini shotgun.

Post by StillerBoy »

Knife_man wrote: Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:27 pm It was a absolute pain to make though , or rather fixing all the leaks was a pain , ended up using compressed air to find them as I get fed up of filling it with water and draining it down. Perhaps if I'd done a better job of soldering the plates first time round
KnifeMan.. very nice work.. never tried to do one using 1/4" tubes, but done a few using 3 - 3/8" tubes in a 1" tube with 5 baffles..

The soldering task was made difficult only because of using to large a solder size, copper not hot enough, and fear of un-soldering the joint next to it.. one can soldered a joint inside of the pipe, then soldered the same joint outside, and not un-soldered the inside one.. a joint will not solder with heat alone, the part need to be disturber/touched/moved to un-solder..

Mars
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Parts before final assembly<br />3 - 3/8&quot; tubes, 5 baffles, and ends
Parts before final assembly
3 - 3/8" tubes, 5 baffles, and ends
Finished assemble
Finished assemble
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Twisted Brick
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Re: Mini shotgun.

Post by Twisted Brick »

Nice work, KnifeMan. You packed a lot of condensing power into one tidy little package.

If you make another shotty in the future, using a few clamps to hold down the edges of a multiple-sheet copper 'sandwich' would allow you to drill all of your vapor tube holes identically and with no tearing drama. There are a few shotgun threads that have a pic of this.

Enjoy your sweet condenser. Gotta love them shotties!
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Knife_man
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Re: Mini shotgun.

Post by Knife_man »

Thank guys
I'm really happy with it , just need to get it attached to a column now ( which I havnt even ordered yet) dying to give it a real go.
Twisted Brick wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 11:26 am If you make another shotty in the future, using a few clamps to hold down the edges of a multiple-sheet copper 'sandwich' would allow you to drill all of your vapor tube holes identically and with no tearing drama. There are a few shotgun threads that have a pic of this.
I did attempt to glue them together which is a method I've had success with in the past but they got too hot and the glue gave up. I also hindered myself somewhat by cutting the outer circle first meaning I had very little left to hold onto.

All lessons learned when/if I do it again.
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Re: Mini shotgun.

Post by StillerBoy »

Knife_man wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 1:49 pm just need to get it attached to a column now ( which I havnt even ordered yet) dying to give it a real go.
What is the column attachment you presently have on your other product condenser..
Many options..

Glues plates together does not work well , as you have all ready experience.. my method is somewhat easy.. once the plates are sized and alined, I use a pair of vise gripe, using a pre made pattern, glued to one plate using glue stick, then drill pilot holes, and then enlarge the holes to the size required for the tubing one plate at a time..

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Re: Mini shotgun.

Post by Knife_man »

StillerBoy wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 2:46 pm What is the column attachment you presently have on your other product condenser..
Many options..

When I said ordered , I of course meant ordered the copper to make it myself 😁.

Currently I'm locked into a compression coupling as that's what I built into the boiler many many moons ago and I'm stuck with it unless I upgrade my boiler which I have to intention of doing for the time being too many other projects to play around with.
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Re: Mini shotgun.

Post by The Baker »

Hi,
Cover the end while not using it.
Maybe with paper and a rubber band or something that will not really block it if you forget to take it off...

If a spider or an insect sets up home in there you may be in real trouble.

Geoff
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Re: Mini shotgun.

Post by Yummyrum »

Good advice Geoff , that looks like a Mud wasps dream .
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Re: Mini shotgun.

Post by Knife_man »

Well it's been through the cleaning runs and had some rum through it and everything is worked perfectly , aside from a small leak on the water line which was easily fixed.

I need more control over the water though was very hard to get the flow rate low enough with a ball valve.

Water usage is down from filling up a watering can faster than I can use it to 700ml a minute at full power (2200W) which is much more respectable and I can probably get it down slightly lower with more control.

I very happy with it :thumbup:
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Re: Mini shotgun.

Post by Knife_man »

The Baker wrote: Sat Aug 13, 2022 5:58 pm Hi,
Cover the end while not using it.
Maybe with paper and a rubber band or something that will not really block it if you forget to take it off...

If a spider or an insect sets up home in there you may be in real trouble.

Geoff
I usually make up a wooden plugs for when I'm not using still parts , on the very slim chance that I forget to remove it (extremely small chance since I'm watching that end waiting for the drips to start) then it's not a tremendously tight fit and/or the cap will pop off.

I usually like to give things a rinse through if that have been sitting for a while as well just in case .
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Re: Mini shotgun.

Post by StillerBoy »

Knife_man wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:28 pm I need more control over the water though was very hard to get the flow rate low enough with a ball valve.
A needle valve is the only way to have proper control of water flow..

Mars
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Re: Mini shotgun.

Post by Knife_man »

StillerBoy wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 4:01 am
Knife_man wrote: Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:28 pm I need more control over the water though was very hard to get the flow rate low enough with a ball valve.
A needle valve is the only way to have proper control of water flow..

Mars
I'm not sure what type of valve they are but over here (UK) radiator valves are perfect
(https://www.screwfix.com/p/white-angled ... mm-x/33920) They go from 15mm compression or 8mm microbore to the same thread as our hose connector with a really good valve in the middle.

I wonder if using a thermostatic one could give you automatic control of water flow if you put it on the output??? I feel another experiment coming on.

I didn't have one on hand though.
Last edited by Knife_man on Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:17 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Mini shotgun.

Post by Knife_man »

Knife_man wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:09 am I wonder if using a thermostatic one could give you automatic control of water flow if you put it on the output??? I feel another experiment coming on.
Looks like they work based on room temperature so no ☹
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Re: Mini shotgun.

Post by StillerBoy »

Knife_man wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:09 am I'm not sure what type of valve they are but over here (UK) radiator valves are perfect
3/8-Inch Compression Straight Brass Needle Valve work very well for water flow control..

Mars
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Re: Mini shotgun.

Post by Knife_man »

StillerBoy wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:30 am
Knife_man wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 5:09 am I'm not sure what type of valve they are but over here (UK) radiator valves are perfect
3/8-Inch Compression Straight Brass Needle Valve work very well for water flow control..

Mars
Just had a look and manual central heating radiator valves are needle valves , the reason I favour them is because they go direct from 8 , 10 or 15mm copper through a needle valve to whatever thread a hose connection is, they are also available in straight or 90 Deg , all in one connector no adaptors or soldering needed.

They are also very cheap , less than £5 or $6. Less than the price of just a valve.
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Re: Mini shotgun.

Post by StillerBoy »

Whatever you end up using, it should be alots better than the gate valve, as long as it can provide fine adjustments.. also there should a water valve somewhere in the line, be where the hose connect, so that the overall pressure is reduce at the needle valve, and only cracked about a third open..

Mars
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Re: Mini shotgun.

Post by Knife_man »

StillerBoy wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:12 am also there should a water valve somewhere in the line, be where the hose connect, so that the overall pressure is reduce at the needle valve, and only cracked about a third open..

Mars
Connected to a outside tap (faucet) and thats hardly opened at all.
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Re: Mini shotgun.

Post by The Baker »

Knife_man wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 9:26 am
StillerBoy wrote: Tue Aug 16, 2022 8:12 am also there should a water valve somewhere in the line, be where the hose connect, so that the overall pressure is reduce at the needle valve, and only cracked about a third open..

Mars
Connected to a outside tap (faucet) and thats hardly opened at all.
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Re: Mini shotgun.

Post by higgins »

This needle valve comes in a 2 pack (1 for my liebig, 1 for my RC coil) for $16 USD. I bought the one shown (1/4" male x 1/4" female - it also comes in m to m and f to f). It works very well to control water flow.
NeedleValve.png
Needle Valve on Amazon
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