Pot still - turning a toad into a prince

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rockymars
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Pot still - turning a toad into a prince

Post by rockymars »

Dear all,

In my zest to distill something useful, I bought myself this cheap pot still -> https://m.vevor.com.au/alcohol-distille ... 0703858271. I had no idea what I was doing…

It features:
- 20 litre pot (pot ok, but lid is wonky and bulges/contorts under pressure; riser is 1/2”)
20L pot with 1/2” riser
20L pot with 1/2” riser
- thumper (too small, 2 litres; no pipe going into the liquid so not really a thumper)
Thumper inside
Thumper inside
- condenser is 3/8” copper coil, about 1.3m/52” in length)
Condenser
Condenser
- silicone seals throughout.

I did a vinegar run, followed by a water run this week. It took me quite a while to wrestle the rig into equilibrium but I sort of got there. I was collecting distillate at about 0.5-0.75L/h.

I would like to upgrade this thing into a useable pot still that won’t take a century for each run. I’d like to get my hands dirty on brandy, rum and bourbon and I want it to be a pleasure, not a wrestling match every time.

I’m thinking of doing the following:
- cut a great big hole in the lid, and mount an upturned bowl on top (this should be stable enough to hold a reflux column… future upgrade)
Proposed upgrade to lid
Proposed upgrade to lid
- cut a 2” hole in the bowl (dome) to accommodate a tri clamp connector.
- pipe sections (all 2” tri clamp): riser (300mm/12”), tee (c/w blanking plate at the top), 90 degree elbow, and 2” to 1/2” reducer
- replace the condenser with a 1.2m/4” liebig, 1/2” inside a 1” jacket)
- heating will be a 1,500W hotplate, SCR controlled
- PTFE seals throughout.

As I said, my first priority to is get a pot still going so that I can play around with brown spirits. In future I’d like to upgrade the pot still to CCVM so that I can do gin (the missus’ poison of choice), hence going for all the tri clamp stuff now.

Are there any glaring issues with my pot still design?

Cheers
RM
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Re: Pot still - turning a toad into a prince

Post by Ben »

There should not be pressure in the system (a pot still should run at less than 0.1 psi) figure out why it is pressurizing before you run any alcohol through it. With the thumper attached and filled your pressure should be around 0.036 psi/inch of inlet tube that is submerged.

I think with the work you are going to put into this you would be better off to start working on a keg. Make the thumper on what you have work, get rid of the safety problems and start working on the next thing. This could be transformed into a gin still later on.
:)
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Re: Pot still - turning a toad into a prince

Post by contrahead »

rockymars wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:21 am As I said, my first priority to is get a pot still going so that I can play around with brown spirits.
twellshot001.jpg
If you drill a hole in that salad bowl you can purchase and fit various heads; even without a tri clamp connector. Like the one shown in the picture above. It is threaded on the bottom and has a gasket and nut that easily fixes it to the lid (or bowl).

Or you might go the sink basket route and top the bowl with your own homemade Boka; like this next guy has done.

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strip_mode_1lg.jpg
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Re: Pot still - turning a toad into a prince

Post by Salt Must Flow »

I agree with Ben, a keg is the ideal way to go because they are tough as nails and do not flex. I believe you would have to install an electric element because I don't think hot plates would work with a keg. A 240V Ultra Watt Low Density element would be absolutely ideal. If you can't go 240V then I'd install at least two 120V elements and be sure they are not wired to the same circuit breaker.

There are 7.5 gal kegs. I have a couple, but I never ended up using them as a boiler. I installed a 2" Tri-Clamp ferrule as low as I could on one, but it still takes the same amount of liquid to cover the element as it does my 15.5 gal keg. For that reason I never had a use for it.
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Re: Pot still - turning a toad into a prince

Post by rockymars »

Hey Ben, thanks for your ideas.
Ben wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 6:50 am There should not be pressure in the system (a pot still should run at less than 0.1 psi) figure out why it is pressurizing before you run any alcohol through it. With the thumper attached and filled your pressure should be around 0.036 psi/inch of inlet tube that is submerged.
I was wondering last night, did I maybe try to run this still too hard? In my frustration by how little output I was getting, I really pushed it as hard as I could. I didn’t take notes (we should be doing that right?), but from memory I had the hotplate in my induction cooktop at max.
Ben wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 6:50 am I think with the work you are going to put into this you would be better off to start working on a keg. Make the thumper on what you have work, get rid of the safety problems and start working on the next thing. This could be transformed into a gin still later on.
My eventual plan was to use a milk can boiler. Putting the dome on top of this boiler would cost me like $7 (the mixing bowl in the photo is for my sourdough baking :) ), plus all the bits and bobs that I would have to buy anyway to do the mods I described above. Kegs are only available new in my neck of the woods, and are stupidly expensive. I’m keeping and eye on the classifieds for something suitable.
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Re: Pot still - turning a toad into a prince

Post by rockymars »

Hey contrahead,
contrahead wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:39 pm If you drill a hole in that salad bowl you can purchase and fit various heads; even without a tri clamp connector. Like the one shown in the picture above.
I’ve been looking at that AlcoEngine still with quite a bit of interest. I’m very curious about a couple of things:
- where is the condenser water outlet?
- how does it look inside? Is it a Boka?
contrahead wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:39 pm Or you might go the sink basket route and top the bowl with your own homemade Boka; like this next guy has done.
What an elegant looking setup! I’ve come across the idea of using a sink drain, and think it’s a damn good idea.

I can readily lay my hands on up to 1” copper pipe at our local hardware giant (Bunnings), but larger than that the cost skyrockets. There aren’t demolition/salvage yards over here, other than the scrap metal dealers. I’ll try them this week. If I can’t find 1 1/2 or 2” tubing, I may have to go down the road of a modular Meccano setup (buy tri clamp bits and pieces and put it all together).
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Re: Pot still - turning a toad into a prince

Post by rockymars »

Hey SMF,
Salt Must Flow wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 2:07 pm I agree with Ben, a keg is the ideal way to go because they are tough as nails and do not flex.
I certainly agree with you both. Right at the moment I’m hamstrung by available cash, so I was looking at getting a keg or milk can later on, and make do with what I already have.
Salt Must Flow wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 2:07 pm I believe you would have to install an electric element because I don't think hot plates would work with a keg. A 240V Ultra Watt Low Density element would be absolutely ideal. If you can't go 240V then I'd install at least two 120V elements and be sure they are not wired to the same circuit breaker.
I’m actually toying with the idea of installing an SCR-controlled electric heater (240V, 10A, 2400W) on this boiler, and then transplanting it onto the keg/milk can once I get it. We’re limited to 10A on our domestic supplies her in Aus, but from what I’ve read, 2400W will be plenty, even on a 30L/7.7gal boiler (which is what I’m planning to get).
Salt Must Flow wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 2:07 pm There are 7.5 gal kegs. I have a couple, but I never ended up using them as a boiler. I installed a 2" Tri-Clamp ferrule as low as I could on one, but it still takes the same amount of liquid to cover the element as it does my 15.5 gal keg. For that reason I never had a use for it.
Once above 30L/7.7gal, space becomes an issue too. I live in a townhouse (I guess something similar to a condominium) and have one very small room dedicated to my homebrewing and winemaking (sure smells amazing in there ;)). So out of necessity, and the fact that I don’t drink that much, 30L will be my upper max.
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Re: Pot still - turning a toad into a prince

Post by howie »

given your situation with space and money, have you considered a cheapish 30l digiboil?
connected to a power controller, with commercially available 2" lids, 2400w, 10A , concealed low density elements.
there are some reasonably priced and fairly well made 2" modular stills on aliexpress (distillex)
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Re: Pot still - turning a toad into a prince

Post by contrahead »

rockymars wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 2:41 pm
- where is the condenser water outlet?
- how does it look inside? Is it a Boka?
inside it has a Boka like 1/4" coil condensor.
However it suposedly differs a little when collecting. Internally, droplets run off the coil and onto some collection wires somehow.

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Re: Pot still - turning a toad into a prince

Post by rockymars »

Hi howie,
howie wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 3:37 pm given your situation with space and money, have you considered a cheapish 30l digiboil?
connected to a power controller, with commercially available 2" lids, 2400w, 10A , concealed low density elements.
I will consider that, thanks for the suggestion! I’m doing a cost-benefit analysis of my options (yup, engineer in a previous life), and if it stacks up, I’ll go for it.
howie wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 3:37 pm there are some reasonably priced and fairly well made 2" modular stills on aliexpress (distillex)
I’ve actually got an eye on this one:
https://a.aliexpress.com/_ms6BjuY
Since it is already modular and 2” tri clamp, it would be easy peasy to add bits and pieces to turn it into a CCVM. That’s the way I’m currently headed.
Last edited by rockymars on Mon Aug 22, 2022 12:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pot still - turning a toad into a prince

Post by rockymars »

contrahead wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 4:44 pm inside it has a Boka like 1/4" coil condensor.
However it suposedly differs a little when collecting. Internally, droplets run off the coil and onto some collection wires somehow.

Alcoengine still video

DigiBoil Alcoengine (eBay listing)
Yeah I thought it must be some kind if Boka. I shall factor this into my cost-benefit too.
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Re: Pot still - turning a toad into a prince

Post by howie »

rockymars wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 12:54 am Hi howie,
howie wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 3:37 pm given your situation with space and money, have you considered a cheapish 30l digiboil?
connected to a power controller, with commercially available 2" lids, 2400w, 10A , concealed low density elements.
I will consider that, thanks for the suggestion! I’m doing a cost-benefit analysis of my options (yup, engineer in a previous life), and if it stacks up, I’ll go for it.
howie wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 3:37 pm there are some reasonably priced and fairly well made 2" modular stills on aliexpress (distillex)
I’ve actually got an eye on this one:
https://a.aliexpress.com/_ms6BjuY
Since it is already modular and 2” tri clamp, it would be easy peasy to add bits and pieces to turn it into a CCVM. That’s the way I’m currently headed.
that is cheap, i've seen that site before and thought the welds look a bit dodgy.
but if they work, who cares.
this is the quality of the distillex store, more pipes, 5 spacers & 'high powered'.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000245 ... 60447%21sh
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Re: Pot still - turning a toad into a prince

Post by Ben »

rockymars wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 2:19 pm
I was wondering last night, did I maybe try to run this still too hard? In my frustration by how little output I was getting, I really pushed it as hard as I could. I didn’t take notes (we should be doing that right?), but from memory I had the hotplate in my induction cooktop at max.
Try blowing through all of your components, check for obstructions. Can be a hazard on heat up and cool down both.
:)
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Re: Pot still - turning a toad into a prince

Post by Deplorable »

If kegs aren't available for a song where you live, a milk can boiler is the way to go IMO.
I run a 50L (13 US gallon) milk can on electric with a home-built power controller. I couldn't purchase and build a keg for what I paid for the MCB with all the TC ferrules where I wanted them and the 1.5 inch butterfly valve drain.
The SS still head that came on the still I purchased is all but gone except for one 20 inch spool. I built a proper 2 inch copper modular CCVM and have been perfectly happy with my kit.
If I can make it another 2 years with this setup before I retire, I'll have more time to make more runs and stop trying to convince myself I need a 26 gallon boiler and 3 inch still. :lol:
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Re: Pot still - turning a toad into a prince

Post by rockymars »

So howie,
howie wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 3:37 pm given your situation with space and money, have you considered a cheapish 30l digiboil?
connected to a power controller, with commercially available 2" lids, 2400w, 10A , concealed low density elements.
there are some reasonably priced and fairly well made 2" modular stills on aliexpress (distillex)
As it happens, a 35L Digiboil fell into my lap today. I picked one up for a reasonable price, and is sitting pretty in my living room.

I’m planning to rewire it as per this thread -> https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewto ... =2&t=80204, in which you made some really valuable contributions.

So my plan is to put the 1900W element on a toggle switch (PID or SCR), and the 500W element permanently on PID.

I’m getting excited!
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Re: Pot still - turning a toad into a prince

Post by rockymars »

:wink: :ebiggrin:
Deplorable wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:13 am If I can make it another 2 years with this setup before I retire, I'll have more time to make more runs and stop trying to convince myself I need a 26 gallon boiler and 3 inch still. :lol:
Haha, that would be an insane amount “water” you’ll be distilling mate :wink: :mrgreen:
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Re: Pot still - turning a toad into a prince

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rockymars wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:06 am So howie,
howie wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 3:37 pm given your situation with space and money, have you considered a cheapish 30l digiboil?
connected to a power controller, with commercially available 2" lids, 2400w, 10A , concealed low density elements.
there are some reasonably priced and fairly well made 2" modular stills on aliexpress (distillex)
As it happens, a 35L Digiboil fell into my lap today. I picked one up for a reasonable price, and is sitting pretty in my living room.

I’m planning to rewire it as per this thread -> https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewto ... =2&t=80204, in which you made some really valuable contributions.

So my plan is to put the 1900W element on a toggle switch (PID or SCR), and the 500W element permanently on PID.

I’m getting excited!
not in that thread, was that i used a 10A 3-way switch originally on the 1900w element.
i found one of the connections getting a bit hot one day, so i replaced it with a 15A version.
could have been a bad connection, but it was hard finding a 15A replacement, this is where i found one.....https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/283265170250
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Re: Pot still - turning a toad into a prince

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rockymars wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:06 am
So my plan is to put the 1900W element on a toggle switch (PID or SCR), and the 500W element permanently on PID.

I’m getting excited!
Hi Rocky, I’m also a digiboil fan, they are just so easy to use :thumbup: but one thing that’s important to know is that it doesn’t have a PID, or anything remotely resembling a PID for its temperature control. It’s just an old fashioned temperature switch that turns the two elements on and off to maintain the temp at the base of the boiler. This is pretty handy for your mash, but isn’t great for distillation, which likes a nice steady heat source. When running your rig, make sure the temperature is set a few degrees above your boiling point. (I say “your” boiling point, cos’ the gauge isn’t exactly a precision instrument, and boiling point will vary with altitude. fwiw I use 102°C)

PS - excitement well justified, this is an awesome hobby, keep safe and enjoy.
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Re: Pot still - turning a toad into a prince

Post by Renhoekk »

rockymars wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 2:19 pm I was wondering last night, did I maybe try to run this still too hard? In my frustration by how little output I was getting, I really pushed it as hard as I could. I didn’t take notes (we should be doing that right?), but from memory I had the hotplate in my induction cooktop at max.
Check that it’s actually pressure that’s causing this - these cheap stills are made from thin metal, which can bend and flex as it heats. Your pot could be doing a bit of a flexidance. Especially the lid, which looks even thinner than the rest of the pot.

I would be surprised if your still was building pressure. They are such a basic design - it’s just a stockpot and a short condenser tube. Something would have to block the vapour path for pressure to build.

Either way, stay safe and make sure your outlets are clear.
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Re: Pot still - turning a toad into a prince

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howie wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 4:04 am not in that thread, was that i used a 10A 3-way switch originally on the 1900w element.
i found one of the connections getting a bit hot one day, so i replaced it with a 15A version.
could have been a bad connection, but it was hard finding a 15A replacement, this is where i found one.....https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/283265170250
That sounds weird, the current draw on a 1900W element will be less than 8A. Either a hot connection (that’s why I solder connections as much as I can), or a defective switch. The switch I’ve got watchlisted on AliExpress is rated 250V/16A, should be plenty.
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Re: Pot still - turning a toad into a prince

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GrumbleStill wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 4:26 am Hi Rocky, I’m also a digiboil fan, they are just so easy to use :thumbup: but one thing that’s important to know is that it doesn’t have a PID, or anything remotely resembling a PID for its temperature control. It’s just an old fashioned temperature switch that turns the two elements on and off to maintain the temp at the base of the boiler.
Oi don’t burst my bubble mate! I was just explaining to the missus last night what a fancy pants boiler I’d bought! :ebiggrin:
GrumbleStill wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 4:26 am When running your rig, make sure the temperature is set a few degrees above your boiling point. (I say “your” boiling point, cos’ the gauge isn’t exactly a precision instrument, and boiling point will vary with altitude. fwiw I use 102°C)
I’ll take note of that. :thumbup:
How do you control yours? Do you use an SCR?
GrumbleStill wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 4:26 am PS - excitement well justified, this is an awesome hobby, keep safe and enjoy.
Thanks mate! :thumbup:
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Re: Pot still - turning a toad into a prince

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Renhoekk wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 5:05 am Check that it’s actually pressure that’s causing this - these cheap stills are made from thin metal, which can bend and flex as it heats. Your pot could be doing a bit of a flexidance. Especially the lid, which looks even thinner than the rest of the pot.

I would be surprised if your still was building pressure. They are such a basic design - it’s just a stockpot and a short condenser tube. Something would have to block the vapour path for pressure to build.

Either way, stay safe and make sure your outlets are clear.
I’ve just blow through all the pipes, everything sound. It must be that lid, it is paper thin! As you said, the rest of the pot is actually decent, hence why I was initially planning to reuse it.

But since I bought that Digiboil, I won’t be worrying about the setup anymore. The pot is still very useable, I just don’t know for what. Cooking crayfish or crab perhaps?
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Re: Pot still - turning a toad into a prince

Post by rockymars »

Hi all, dumb question…

What are these clamps called?
CA5E202A-5A01-4CD0-8E30-D5C516E96E26.jpeg
Cheers
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Re: Pot still - turning a toad into a prince

Post by howie »

rockymars wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:56 pm
howie wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 4:04 am not in that thread, was that i used a 10A 3-way switch originally on the 1900w element.
i found one of the connections getting a bit hot one day, so i replaced it with a 15A version.
could have been a bad connection, but it was hard finding a 15A replacement, this is where i found one.....https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/283265170250
That sounds weird, the current draw on a 1900W element will be less than 8A. Either a hot connection (that’s why I solder connections as much as I can), or a defective switch. The switch I’ve got watchlisted on AliExpress is rated 250V/16A, should be plenty.
yep, 16A will do the trick.
i also had a 4000w power controller that died one day.
opened it up and found a 6A on/off switch had been fitted, that got slightly melted.
sorted that out with a little work on the casing with the dremmel, to fit a new 15A switch.
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Re: Pot still - turning a toad into a prince

Post by Yummyrum »

rockymars wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 8:25 pm Hi all, dumb question…

What are these clamps called?
CA5E202A-5A01-4CD0-8E30-D5C516E96E26.jpeg

Cheers
Not a dump question .Lot of stuff you never know until you need it :thumbup:

They be called Over centre latches . Some times they are called Toggle clamps or latches .
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Re: Pot still - turning a toad into a prince

Post by rockymars »

howie wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:01 pm yep, 16A will do the trick.
i also had a 4000w power controller that died one day.
opened it up and found a 6A on/off switch had been fitted, that got slightly melted.
sorted that out with a little work on the casing with the dremmel, to fit a new 15A switch.
Wow that’s dodgy! I’ll give mine a good once over once it arrives. It’s this one -> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mOjSX8Y. I’ll have to replace the EU plug though.

I’ve traced the circuitry on the Digiboil today, and have planned out my wiring mods. The 1900W element will be exclusively SCR controlled, the 500W element permanently on the Digiboil’s controller.
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Re: Pot still - turning a toad into a prince

Post by rockymars »

Yummyrum wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 11:50 pm Not a dump question .Lot of stuff you never know until you need it :thumbup:

They be called Over centre latches . Some times they are called Toggle clamps or latches .
Thanks yummy! 😁
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Re: Pot still - turning a toad into a prince

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rockymars wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 12:51 am
howie wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 10:01 pm yep, 16A will do the trick.
i also had a 4000w power controller that died one day.
opened it up and found a 6A on/off switch had been fitted, that got slightly melted.
sorted that out with a little work on the casing with the dremmel, to fit a new 15A switch.
Wow that’s dodgy! I’ll give mine a good once over once it arrives. It’s this one -> https://a.aliexpress.com/_mOjSX8Y. I’ll have to replace the EU plug though.

I’ve traced the circuitry on the Digiboil today, and have planned out my wiring mods. The 1900W element will be exclusively SCR controlled, the 500W element permanently on the Digiboil’s controller.
so long as.
1) the 500w can hold a reasonably high temp for mashing ( i think it would)
2) it's handy to have both elements connected to the digiboil controller so you can 'set and forget' a target temp.
ie strike water temps
i often set temps like 30c, 65c, 71c, 80c & 90c while i'm getting stuff ready.
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rockymars
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Re: Pot still - turning a toad into a prince

Post by rockymars »

howie wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 2:54 am so long as.
1) the 500w can hold a reasonably high temp for mashing ( i think it would)
2) it's handy to have both elements connected to the digiboil controller so you can 'set and forget' a target temp.
ie strike water temps
i often set temps like 30c, 65c, 71c, 80c & 90c while i'm getting stuff ready.
So do you have your 1900W element on a toggle switch to either have it on temperature control or on SCR?
VEVOR 3-pot still... complete waste of money
35L Digiboil with DIBOSH 2” CM still
GrumbleStill
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Re: Pot still - turning a toad into a prince

Post by GrumbleStill »

rockymars wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 2:06 pm Oi don’t burst my bubble mate! I was just explaining to the missus last night what a fancy pants boiler I’d bought! :ebiggrin:
Oops…sorry
rockymars wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 2:06 pm
How do you control yours? Do you use an SCR?
I just plug it straight into one of these https://5stardistilling.com/product/pow ... 00w-10amp/ Didn’t go down the rewiring/ modification path. It’s not a perfect solution, but mine works fine in the 110-240V range, which is more than enough adjustment for my purposes.
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