100 Proof Final Strength Heavily Peated Whisky - Oaking advice wanted

Treatment and handling of your distillate.

Moderator: Site Moderator

Post Reply
Rumblepants
Novice
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:02 pm

100 Proof Final Strength Heavily Peated Whisky - Oaking advice wanted

Post by Rumblepants »

Hi HomeDistillers,

I have had my first stab at a Islay style heavily peated whisky. I used 100% Bairds Heavily Peated barley in the grist and ended up with 2 x 23L (6 Gallon) ferments starting at 1.075 and finishing around 1.005 gravity.

I then striped one of the wash's down to about 7L (1.8 gallons) and added that to the other wash for a 1.5 style spirit run. I did this to try and maximise the peat flavour in the final spirit. I am trying to make a peat monster :)

After my spirit run my final cut has come out at just over 100 proof 52% abv. I was wanting to oak the product at around 62 - 65% abv.

I'm looking for some advice as to what strength toast to use on the US oak I have coming in the mail. My loose plan is to toast and char it then season it in some corn spirit for a few months and then introduce it into the peated spirit. I age my spirit on glass.

All advice welcome!

Thanks
Rumble
User avatar
Stonecutter
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1911
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:40 pm
Location: Somewhere within the Milkyway

Re: 100 Proof Final Strength Heavily Peated Whisky - Oaking advice wanted

Post by Stonecutter »

First things first. Is this oak that your getting like new oak? It what exactly is it? If it’s new you need to let it “season” outside in the weather for a couple years or dry kilned to get rid of the heavy tannins and other unwanted flavors.

If the woods is ready for toasting I have referenced the thread below a time or two. There’s a good chart in there about time and temp. I’d char until you see that classic alligator char manifest.

viewtopic.php?p=7230981&sid=3a3c1b9cc2d ... 2#p7230981
Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing.
-Thomas Paine
User avatar
Stonecutter
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1911
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:40 pm
Location: Somewhere within the Milkyway

Re: 100 Proof Final Strength Heavily Peated Whisky - Oaking advice wanted

Post by Stonecutter »

Woooweee that’s got to be some Smokey sh*t Rumblepants!
Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing.
-Thomas Paine
Newtothis
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 149
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:37 am

Re: 100 Proof Final Strength Heavily Peated Whisky - Oaking advice wanted

Post by Newtothis »

That’s going to be good. I’ve always heard you need to weather the oak or sure it outside for a couple years if it’s new oak to help remove the tannins, and you need to be careful with the type of oak you get as well, if it’s furniture grade or floor grade there might be some chemicals added into the wood for preservation and stability ( I don’t know that for sure, just what I’ve read here). Old oak staves might be the safest route, get some and hand plane them down, do a char #2 or #3 then toss on bourbon for a while , then toss on your peated whiskey. On a side note I’ve made a few batches of peated bourbon that are 51/49 with bairds heavily peated. Smells so good and the white dog tasted amazing, got it in small barrels currently , but I am very much looking forward to it .
Rumblepants
Novice
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:02 pm

Re: 100 Proof Final Strength Heavily Peated Whisky - Oaking advice wanted

Post by Rumblepants »

Stonecutter wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 6:25 am First things first. Is this oak that your getting like new oak? It what exactly is it? If it’s new you need to let it “season” outside in the weather for a couple years or dry kilned to get rid of the heavy tannins and other unwanted flavors.

If the woods is ready for toasting I have referenced the thread below a time or two. There’s a good chart in there about time and temp. I’d char until you see that classic alligator char manifest.

viewtopic.php?p=7230981&sid=3a3c1b9cc2d ... 2#p7230981
The white oak is kiln dried and ready for toasting/charring.

Here's the Amazon link for reference:
https : www.amazon.com/dp/B092CJCK1T?ref=myi_title_dp

I'll read through the referenced thread. Thank you!

Cheers
Rumble
cob
Master of Distillation
Posts: 2691
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:38 pm
Location: little puffs of dust where my feet used to be

Re: 100 Proof Final Strength Heavily Peated Whisky - Oaking advice wanted

Post by cob »

The link you posted says nothing about seasoning. As noted by Stonecutter

the oak needs to be seasoned outdoors 2-3 years before toasting or charing.
be water my friend
Rumblepants
Novice
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:02 pm

Re: 100 Proof Final Strength Heavily Peated Whisky - Oaking advice wanted

Post by Rumblepants »

cob wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 2:43 pm The link you posted says nothing about seasoning. As noted by Stonecutter

the oak needs to be seasoned outdoors 2-3 years before toasting or charing.
I actually got these from eBay. From the description is the following:
Corbett’s Oak Sticks are used in the aging process of wines and other spirits like whiskey and brandy. Our White Oak Sticks are manufactured from white oak lumber that has been kiln dried and is ready for use as is or you can toast or char to the depth you desire.
Should I buy some different oak?

Thanks
Rumble
Rumblepants
Novice
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:02 pm

Re: 100 Proof Final Strength Heavily Peated Whisky - Oaking advice wanted

Post by Rumblepants »

Stonecutter wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 6:27 am Woooweee that’s got to be some Smokey sh*t Rumblepants!
Its currently sitting around a similar level of smoke as Ardbeg 10. I'm pretty happy with that :)
Rumblepants
Novice
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:02 pm

Re: 100 Proof Final Strength Heavily Peated Whisky - Oaking advice wanted

Post by Rumblepants »

I got this response from the seller when i asked them about seasoning.
These American white oak sticks have been cut from kiln dried white oak lumber. It is harvested in North Georgia and cut into lumber at Cline lumber in Dalton GA. It is placed into a kiln and the moisture level is brought to a stable state that is used in whiskey barrel staves.
What are peoples thoughts on kilning?

Thanks
Rumble
User avatar
Stonecutter
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1911
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:40 pm
Location: Somewhere within the Milkyway

Re: 100 Proof Final Strength Heavily Peated Whisky - Oaking advice wanted

Post by Stonecutter »

Rumblepants wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 11:06 pm I got this response from the seller when i asked them about seasoning.
These American white oak sticks have been cut from kiln dried white oak lumber. It is harvested in North Georgia and cut into lumber at Cline lumber in Dalton GA. It is placed into a kiln and the moisture level is brought to a stable state that is used in whiskey barrel staves.
What are peoples thoughts on kilning?

Thanks
Rumble
I’ve never done it but it is standard practice.
Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing.
-Thomas Paine
User avatar
TwoSheds
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 569
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:49 pm
Location: New England, USA

Re: 100 Proof Final Strength Heavily Peated Whisky - Oaking advice wanted

Post by TwoSheds »

Before I knew any better I used some kiln dried white oak scraps from the workshop to age mead and some spirits. It didn't ruin either, but you'll get tannins quickly and probably won't want to leave the wood in them for months/years like you could if you season like a cooper does.

I'd suggest you try it on a small jar and check it weekly for a month or two and see what happens. The rest of your white spirit will be fine while you figure out if this is the route you want to go.

I've used chips from the home brew store as well and find them similar. Yes, you get wood flavor quickly, but it can be overboard and isn't like the maturity you get out of properly prepared wood.

With a lot of smoke and probably a lot of heads/tails from running a 1.5 run I suspect you'll end up wanting to age for a longer time, so choose carefully!

Good luck!

TwoSheds
OtisT
Master of Distillation
Posts: 3179
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:59 am
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: 100 Proof Final Strength Heavily Peated Whisky - Oaking advice wanted

Post by OtisT »

Kiln dried wood is great for furniture but as said above it is not a replacement for seasoning. Seasoning involves the wood sitting out is the elements for years. I have found that it takes oak at least two years sitting outside in the weather for most of the zing and fire of new oak to calm down. I think you will be much happier waiting until you find some proper wood to age your product in that using new oak.

And thinking long term, take that kiln dried white oak and stack it outside now. Possibly buy more boards now and make that stack a bit bigger than you think you may need. Rotate the stack every few months to ensure it is all getting access to wet, sun, air. In three years you will have some nice and seasoned new oak that is ready to use.

Otis
Last edited by OtisT on Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
Otis’ Pot and Thumper, Dimroth Condenser: Pot-n-Thumper/Dimroth
Learning to Toast: Toasting Wood
Polishing Spirits with Fruitwood: Fruitwood
Badmotivator’s Barrels: Badmo Barrels
User avatar
Stonecutter
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1911
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:40 pm
Location: Somewhere within the Milkyway

Re: 100 Proof Final Strength Heavily Peated Whisky - Oaking advice wanted

Post by Stonecutter »

Kiln seasoning (104-140F for about three weeks) has been around since the 1800’s especially in the U.S., this info was taken from the Whiskey Science Blogspot. Obviously this really doesn’t say anything about which method is best. From snooping around the internet a company called the “Independent Staves Company” supplies most of the staves for the United States. They claim that they age their staves outside.
Sounds like we’re chumming the waters for some experiments.
Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing.
-Thomas Paine
OtisT
Master of Distillation
Posts: 3179
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:59 am
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: 100 Proof Final Strength Heavily Peated Whisky - Oaking advice wanted

Post by OtisT »

Stonecutter wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:03 am Kiln seasoning (104-140F for about three weeks) has been around since the 1800’s especially in the U.S., this info was taken from the Whiskey Science Blogspot. Obviously this really doesn’t say anything about which method is best. From snooping around the internet a company called the “Independent Staves Company” supplies most of the staves for the United States. They claim that they age their staves outside.
Sounds like we’re chumming the waters for some experiments.
I’m not chumming for an experiment. There is no question in my mind that kiln (only) dried oak is not appropriate for properly aging spirits. Lots of threads here and on other sites about what seasoning does and it’s benefits. I’ve experienced the results of seasoned vs unseasoned oak myself. The difference is night and day.

Of course you can go ahead and run some tests if that is your thing. Start seasoning now and report back in 4 years with your results. Otis
Otis’ Pot and Thumper, Dimroth Condenser: Pot-n-Thumper/Dimroth
Learning to Toast: Toasting Wood
Polishing Spirits with Fruitwood: Fruitwood
Badmotivator’s Barrels: Badmo Barrels
User avatar
Stonecutter
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1911
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:40 pm
Location: Somewhere within the Milkyway

Re: 100 Proof Final Strength Heavily Peated Whisky - Oaking advice wanted

Post by Stonecutter »

OtisT wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:29 am
Stonecutter wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:03 am Kiln seasoning (104-140F for about three weeks) has been around since the 1800’s especially in the U.S., this info was taken from the Whiskey Science Blogspot. Obviously this really doesn’t say anything about which method is best. From snooping around the internet a company called the “Independent Staves Company” supplies most of the staves for the United States. They claim that they age their staves outside.
Sounds like we’re chumming the waters for some experiments.
I’m not chumming for an experiment. There is no question in my mind that kiln (only) dried oak is not appropriate for properly aging spirits. Lots of threads here and on other sites about what seasoning does and it’s benefits. I’ve experienced the results of seasoned vs unseasoned oak myself. The difference is night and day.

Of course you can go ahead and run some tests if that is your thing. Start seasoning now and report back in 4 years with your results. Otis
I couldn’t care less about any kind of experiment Otis. I was simply responding to the OP. I’ve got used whiskey barrel staves and a small one gallon barrel for aging on oak. Neither of which can I prove were or were not kiln dried. I’m hoping to upgrade to a larger cask as soon as I can fill it. Furthermore, I never once claimed that YOU were chuming water or that either way was better so you’re just barking at the wall by getting all uppity about it. Apparently you have made the decision for yourself and that’s awesome man. One day I hope to be as confident as you are regarding the aging process.
Cheers
Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing.
-Thomas Paine
OtisT
Master of Distillation
Posts: 3179
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:59 am
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: 100 Proof Final Strength Heavily Peated Whisky - Oaking advice wanted

Post by OtisT »

Did not mean to offend you stonecutter. I feel bad the message came across the way it did. No hard feelings I hope. Otis
Otis’ Pot and Thumper, Dimroth Condenser: Pot-n-Thumper/Dimroth
Learning to Toast: Toasting Wood
Polishing Spirits with Fruitwood: Fruitwood
Badmotivator’s Barrels: Badmo Barrels
Rumblepants
Novice
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:02 pm

Re: 100 Proof Final Strength Heavily Peated Whisky - Oaking advice wanted

Post by Rumblepants »

Interesting thoughts guys. Thanks for the advice its really helping me learn.

Can anyone point me in the direction of some pre seasoned oak staves?

Thanks again
Rumble
User avatar
Stonecutter
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1911
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:40 pm
Location: Somewhere within the Milkyway

Re: 100 Proof Final Strength Heavily Peated Whisky - Oaking advice wanted

Post by Stonecutter »

OtisT wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:27 pm Did not mean to offend you stonecutter. I feel bad the message came across the way it did. No hard feelings I hope. Otis
Hell no my Brother! I overreacted, I apologize. No harm, no foul. I think we’re on the same page about oak anyway :wink:
Last edited by Stonecutter on Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing.
-Thomas Paine
Rumblepants
Novice
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:02 pm

Re: 100 Proof Final Strength Heavily Peated Whisky - Oaking advice wanted

Post by Rumblepants »

TwoSheds wrote: Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:40 am Before I knew any better I used some kiln dried white oak scraps from the workshop to age mead and some spirits. It didn't ruin either, but you'll get tannins quickly and probably won't want to leave the wood in them for months/years like you could if you season like a cooper does.

I'd suggest you try it on a small jar and check it weekly for a month or two and see what happens. The rest of your white spirit will be fine while you figure out if this is the route you want to go.

I've used chips from the home brew store as well and find them similar. Yes, you get wood flavor quickly, but it can be overboard and isn't like the maturity you get out of properly prepared wood.

With a lot of smoke and probably a lot of heads/tails from running a 1.5 run I suspect you'll end up wanting to age for a longer time, so choose carefully!

Good luck!

TwoSheds
My plan is to prep the oak in some UJ that I am making for around 6months to simulate the second use bourbon cask.

Thanks
Rumble
User avatar
8Ball
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1401
Joined: Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:12 am

Re: 100 Proof Final Strength Heavily Peated Whisky - Oaking advice wanted

Post by 8Ball »

When I got into this hobby about 4 years ago, I picked up some nice white oak fire wood in Georgia. It was laying in big “rounds” under a big oak tree when I noticed it as I drove by. I turned around and found the owner in the yard. I asked him for some and he let me cherry pick the big rounds with nice heart wood centers. He split and loaded a lifetime’s worth into my truck. I left him with some cash and a jar of UJSSM I had in the truck box. I hand cut the heart wood and stacked it in a wood rack I made for it outside. It’s fun selecting a piece of wood and prepping it for aging a new bourbon batch. I also recycle my oak for use with rum, Irish, and Scotch styles. Wish I got started in thi hobby a lot sooner!!
🎱 The struggle is real and this rabbit hole just got interesting.
Per a conversation I had with Mr. Jay Gibbs regarding white oak barrel staves: “…you gotta get it burning good.”
cob
Master of Distillation
Posts: 2691
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:38 pm
Location: little puffs of dust where my feet used to be

Re: 100 Proof Final Strength Heavily Peated Whisky - Oaking advice wanted

Post by cob »

search.php?keywords=oak+staves start around page 69
be water my friend
User avatar
Renhoekk
Swill Maker
Posts: 217
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:43 am

Re: 100 Proof Final Strength Heavily Peated Whisky - Oaking advice wanted

Post by Renhoekk »

Hi Rumble - you said you had done your spirit run and your final cut was at 52%. And that you want to oak it at 62 - 65%, which is higher than your final cut?
User avatar
higgins
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 415
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:16 am
Location: US Southern Appalachia

Re: 100 Proof Final Strength Heavily Peated Whisky - Oaking advice wanted

Post by higgins »

I found this on barrelsdirect.com
Originally, wood for American oak barrels was kiln dried. While suitable for spirits, the kiln drying was leaving a much too aggressive flavor in the wood. When American coopers began air drying American oak like the French coopers, the resulting barrels, while still more powerful than the French, were much better suited for wine production. American oak barrels have made remarkable progress in terms of quality over the past few decades. Many of the differences between many American barrels and French barrels are now more a matter of style than of quality.

Wood is harvested from trees hand-selected by the cooper, or barrel maker, to ensure a uniform and water tight final product. The wood is split or sawn from the trees and formed into long thin strips, called staves. The staves need to then dry for a while before they are ready to be formed. They are stacked, and left to sit in the elements for up to several years.
I was lucky when I started looking for white oak. A friend had some 2x10x12's cut about 8 or 10 years ago to use for bridge planking up here in apple atcha. It was stacked outside for the entire time and never got used. He gave me a board off the top that had a split (the heart) running thru it. I've made over 100 oak sticks and 5 badmo barrel heads out of it and still have a 3' section left.
User avatar
BlueSasquatch
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 407
Joined: Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:00 am
Location: Midwest

Re: 100 Proof Final Strength Heavily Peated Whisky - Oaking advice wanted

Post by BlueSasquatch »

Haven't been able to find any, but if you find some used Sherry barrel staves, could be an excellent addition to perhaps a smaller portion, see how that turns out.
"In the silence of the study one can discuss theories, but only in practice one becomes an artist" - Meunier
Rumblepants
Novice
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:02 pm

Re: 100 Proof Final Strength Heavily Peated Whisky - Oaking advice wanted

Post by Rumblepants »

Renhoekk wrote: Tue Aug 23, 2022 4:56 am Hi Rumble - you said you had done your spirit run and your final cut was at 52%. And that you want to oak it at 62 - 65%, which is higher than your final cut?
Yep thats right. Not much I can do to bump up the ABV though. Am planning a bigger run for next time. I'll make enough wash to complete 6 stripping runs for a 40L spirit run. Double distillation will bump up the abv than I can blend some of that into the first run to bump up the abv.

How ever after some ready it looks like 50ish percent should bring over alot of the sweet flavours in the wood.

Cheers
Rumble
User avatar
Renhoekk
Swill Maker
Posts: 217
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:43 am

Re: 100 Proof Final Strength Heavily Peated Whisky - Oaking advice wanted

Post by Renhoekk »

Rumblepants wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 2:31 pm
Yep thats right. Not much I can do to bump up the ABV though. Am planning a bigger run for next time. I'll make enough wash to complete 6 stripping runs for a 40L spirit run.

Cheers
Rumble
Gotcha - you were aiming for 62 but got 52. I read that as you got 52 and now you were going to somehow oak it at 62 :lol:

You must’ve gone very deep into the tails…or did your spirit run start well below 80%?
Oatmeal
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:28 am
Location: Colordo

Re: 100 Proof Final Strength Heavily Peated Whisky - Oaking advice wanted

Post by Oatmeal »

I got a box of used whiskey barrel pieces off of etsy from someone who was making furniture out of old barrels....
Through the magic of alchemy, our spirits live on.
Rumblepants
Novice
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:02 pm

Re: 100 Proof Final Strength Heavily Peated Whisky - Oaking advice wanted

Post by Rumblepants »

Oatmeal wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 5:21 am I got a box of used whiskey barrel pieces off of etsy from someone who was making furniture out of old barrels....
Unfortunately I'm in Australia and the shipping to here is ridiculous. I'm keeping my eye out for a used bourbon barrel to buy and break down. I reckon I'll be able to build a couple of badmo barrels and have staves for life!

Cheers for input.
Rumble
Rumblepants
Novice
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:02 pm

Re: 100 Proof Final Strength Heavily Peated Whisky - Oaking advice wanted

Post by Rumblepants »

Renhoekk wrote: Thu Aug 25, 2022 4:51 am
Rumblepants wrote: Wed Aug 24, 2022 2:31 pm
Yep thats right. Not much I can do to bump up the ABV though. Am planning a bigger run for next time. I'll make enough wash to complete 6 stripping runs for a 40L spirit run.

Cheers
Rumble
Gotcha - you were aiming for 62 but got 52. I read that as you got 52 and now you were going to somehow oak it at 62 :lol:

You must’ve gone very deep into the tails…or did your spirit run start well below 80%?
Yeah run started around 72% and ended real low.

I did wide cuts as I'm planning to age it for 3 years and to be honest the late heads and early tails didn't taste bad IMHO.

Cheers
Rumble
Post Reply