Will my still do the job?

[Reggie]

Hi all, I have a Firestone-style SS 10 gal milk can with a
flat lid. I'm going to order the parts to assemble a 3" SS
reflux column: A raised 3" SS ferrule to be welded onto the
lid, a 21" long tube with screen on the bottom to hold a lot
of ceramic rachig rings, a 6" long sight glass, a 21" Cooling
tube with (4) x-crossed 4.5" water tubes arranged horizontally to reflux the rising vapor. The bottom of the
tube will contain a few rolls of copper mesh, atop that will
be a 4" long tube with a 24" liebig condenser attached at a
45 degree angle, inserted in the top will be a tan gum bung
and thermometer to monitor the run. I plan on heating the
batch with (2) 1500W elements and a 110v heater controller . I want to circulate ice chilled water through both condensers and use valves on the water hoses for control.
I want to make vodka, rum and moonshine. Does this look
like a well balanced setup? The column will be about 54" tall
Thanks, Reggie

[Yummyrum]

The weakness will be the cross tubes . They are an old method from 20 odd years ago and were not particularly effective .You will not get full reflux using them at the power you need . Maybe not an issue for flavoured spirit but useless if you want Vodka or Neutral .

I also see dramas in your life you intend to use Ice . The temp of your cooling water will be going up and down as the Ices melts and you add more . It is hoing to absolutely be a night-mere when if you intend to use Cross tubes or any other sort of Deflagmator in a Coolant Management (CM) setup. For these stills , you need a pretty rock steady water supply temp and pressure .

Perhaps you should look at LM or VM setups if you intend to use your Ice system as they are way more tolerant of varying coolant temp and flow .

[Saltbush Bill]

Agree 100% with Yummy.......ditch the antiquated crosstube condenser idea.
You will save your self time , money and frustration reading and learning more before jumping into buying anything.

[greggn]

inserted in the top will be a tan gum bung and thermometer

Lose the rubber and use natural cork.

[Reggie]

Thank you, will do. Does it sound like a good setup to run 6.5 gal washes? Vodka, rum and shine. Will filter the vodka.
Would you change anything? Brew haus seems to have most of the parts. Should I deal with anybody else? I was a lab tech most of my life and a cook in the Coast Guard for
22 yes. I don't know anyone else that distills Thanks, Reggie
Newark, De

[NZChris]

You might struggle to make enough flavored product to have a good amount aging.

My first fermenter was three times the volume of my still and is still my most used fermenter over thirty years later.
I know that there are home distillers around who do single runs through their reflux stills, but I went old school and pot still three or four stripping runs worth of wash, then do a spirit run, which means that I only have to do one session of choosing cuts for three or four times the amount of wash and have a larger volume to choose from each time, which makes choosing cuts easier and fills the cellar quicker. Platers might have a speed advantage for those running a large boiler, but 10 gal isn't large. If there is a flavor advantage, I only have other home distiller's say so for that.

When I started researching, I decided on what product I wanted to make, (rum), then went about researching what type of still would be easiest for making that. It turned out to be a simple pot still with copper in the boiler and vapor path and that still is still producing fine flavored products of many kinds, plus providing the spirit for my reflux still.

[Yummyrum]

Would you change anything? Brew haus seems to have most of the parts. Should I deal with anybody else?

Yes , as I mentioned above . If this is the still you are looking at , it’s a really bad design and you will regret it .

860DEE12-AEFC-4538-A478-03124099C588.jpeg

If you still have your head fixed on a Coolant management still , this Deflagmator from Stilldragon is a much better way to go . If you are not sure what I am talking about , it is to use instead of that shitty cross-tube system .

AA00BF35-2EE9-40E1-B359-97DE40506A71.jpeg

[Pierrot Lunaire 55]

I built a column still using a Firestone milk can as a boiler about eight years ago. I followed (pretty much) this guide: https://erowid.org/archive/rhodium/pdf/still.pdf It uses the same boiler but isn't as big on the top as you're describing. It has a 2 inch packed column, which seems adequate for the boiler.

It works pretty well, and if I start with low wines around 30% to 50% ABV, I can get distillate of 90% through much of the run. I still use it today for spirit runs. That may not be neutral enough for vodka though. In any case, it has its faults:

1. The condenser is a bit too small, or should be a shotgun rather than a Liebig. Nonetheless, it can handle a lot of throughput if you have a relatively cold water source. Cold water is also necessary if you want to control the reflux. (The booklet also has a plan for a different configuration with much different reflux control, so it's worth a look.)

2. The Firestone cans are pretty old and any you find today will be well worn. This means the lids don't seal all that well, and you'll get some steam leakage. Pushing steam through a packed column creates enough internal pressure to cause some steam loss. There are ways around it, but it takes some ingenuity.

Things to think about.

[acfixer69]

I built a column still using a Firestone milk can as a boiler about eight years ago. I followed (pretty much) this guide: https://erowid.org/archive/rhodium/pdf/still.pdf It uses the same boiler but isn't as big on the top as you're describing. It has a 2 inch packed column, which seems adequate for the boiler.

It works pretty well, and if I start with low wines around 30% to 50% ABV, I can get distillate of 90% through much of the run. I still use it today for spirit runs. That may not be neutral enough for vodka though. In any case, it has its faults:

1. The condenser is a bit too small, or should be a shotgun rather than a Liebig. Nonetheless, it can handle a lot of throughput if you have a relatively cold water source. Cold water is also necessary if you want to control the reflux. (The booklet also has a plan for a different configuration with much different reflux control, so it's worth a look.)

2. The Firestone cans are pretty old and any you find today will be well worn. This means the lids don't seal all that well, and you'll get some steam leakage. Pushing steam through a packed column creates enough internal pressure to cause some steam loss. There are ways around it, but it takes some ingenuity.

Things to think about.

This is all outdated information. A properly sized Liebig is great. The cross tube reflux condensing method has been improved so much that it is no longer talked about except by greedy vendor that prey on the inexperienced newbe. You need to bring yourself up to speed.

[Saltbush Bill]

start with low wines around 30% to 50% ABV,

No one on this forum is going to condone running a still charge of 50% abv.
For a number of saftey reasons 40%abv is the maximum recommended.

[Pierrot Lunaire 55]

OK, mea culpa on suggesting 50% low wines. Sorry about that. As a practical matter, I doubt I've ever run anything higher than 40%. Let's set that point aside for now.

I find the suggestion, "This is all outdated information," interesting in this larger context. Are we not using designs and techniques that have been around for centuries? Don't some distillers purposefully choose older configurations because they're "traditional?" There's no greedy vendor involved in my suggestion. Nobody is selling anything. The still design I suggested was the first one I built, so it has some sentimental attachment, but I also use it after all these years for my spirit runs. It is build-able for a newbie, and it has enough controllable variables (boiler heat, cooling water flow and temperature, amount of packing, etc.) that a newbie can figure out how to control the process and find its operational sweet spot. You can even dump out the packing and run it as a pot still.

[drmiller100]

OK, mea culpa on suggesting 50% low wines. Sorry about that. As a practical matter, I doubt I've ever run anything higher than 40%. Let's set that point aside for now.

I find the suggestion, "This is all outdated information," interesting in this larger context. Are we not using designs and techniques that have been around for centuries? Don't some distillers purposefully choose older configurations because they're "traditional?" There's no greedy vendor involved in my suggestion. Nobody is selling anything. The still design I suggested was the first one I built, so it has some sentimental attachment, but I also use it after all these years for my spirit runs. It is build-able for a newbie, and it has enough controllable variables (boiler heat, cooling water flow and temperature, amount of packing, etc.) that a newbie can figure out how to control the process and find its operational sweet spot. You can even dump out the packing and run it as a pot still.

Let's say your neice wants to learn to drive. You offer your model A as that was a great car back in the day. Will your neice have a good experience????
She would be MUCH better off with a 20 year old Honda accord.

Keep it simple.

Starting with 30 percent and bragging on 90 percent from a packed column is pretty awful.
I can start with 5 percent and end with 95 percent. I'm not alone.

[Saltbush Bill]

I find the suggestion, "This is all outdated information,"

The design of still that you linked to is definatley out dated, 99% of people stopped building them many years ago. While technically it is a reflux still "the through tubes" it is a really poor design........more like a pot still with a tiny amount of reflux.
Probably more suited to making flavoured spirits at a higher ABV than trying to make vodka or neutral.
The average reflux still these days should be able to produce at least 94% or more from a 10-12% wash.
Im not suggesting single run neutral runs , just saying that they can achieve those sorts of numbers.

[Pierrot Lunaire 55]

OK, never let it be said that I refuse to learn. Reggie (Remember him? He started this whole discussion.) and I are using the same 10 gallon Firestone milk can boiler. I've been using a 2" packed column.

So let's say I want to change to a defleg while retaining the 2" column. I still need to keep the packing (right?) but how much do I need? Is 24" of ceramic Raschig rings enough, or is that overkill?

How long does the defleg need to be? I've been building a shotgun condenser using TwistedBrick's handy plates which results in a 2" shell with four 1/2" tubes. This should suffice for the purpose (right?). Or do I really need more smaller tubes? Is 8" long in the right neighborhood?

Here to learn....

BTW, I've never aspired to making vodka. I've stuck pretty much to bourbon, so I tend to think that distilling to 90% is higher than I want to go to retain flavor.

[still_stirrin]

… BTW, I've never aspired to making vodka. I've stuck pretty much to bourbon, so I tend to think that distilling to 90% is higher than I want to go to retain flavor.

+1.

You’ll get some flavor through. But you’ll leave a lot of it in the boiler. However, your hearts cut will be wider due to the compression of the heads. And I’ve found that putting higher proof on oak results in more tannic liquor. The “flip side” of the coin is that oaking 110 to 115 proof gives me more of a “caramel/vanilla” note to the product.
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