It seems glycerin is really the solution for sugar bite

[kyolic]

A month ago I have distilled an apricot mash to make brandy/schnapps (whatever you call it). Total volume of the mash was 20 liters with the SG of 1.080 and I had to use 4 kilograms of sugar to reach that OG (I used 5 kg of apricots).

Everything came out perfectly after the spirit run with the proper cuts and oaking for 30 days at %70 ABV. Really dominant apricot aroma with significant taste of oak. Except for one thing: Sugar Bite!

So I searched the forum for "sugar bite" and this thread popped out:

viewtopic.php?t=74434

Of course, this was not the first time I heard of glycerin, but I never took it serious before. However, reading said thread offering some scientific info, I decided to give it a try and added some to the spirit.

And guess what? Sugar bite was gone. I mean really, it was literally gone!

If you complain about sugar bite with your sugar head spirits, just try adding some glycerin. It really nullifies the sugar bite.

Thank you very much Chauncey for opening said thread.

PS: Do not over do it. Start with 4-5 drops for a liter and taste the result. Otherwise, you will nullify the heads totally and your spirit will become boring. You need some of that heads sparkle to stay there. Just get rid of the sugar bite and you are fine.

[Chauncey]

Well I came here to link my thread but here you are already doing yer research.


Here's the thing, alot of people are allergic to things like glycerin and PG. It makes things syrupy to me.

[kyolic]

Well I came here to link my thread but here you are already doing yer research.


Here's the thing, alot of people are allergic to things like glycerin and PG. It makes things syrupy to me.

Sugar bite is worse than syrupy!

Also, in my experience, adding glycerin at just right amount, doesn't make the spirit syrupy. You just need to figure out the right amount.

Speaking of allergy to the glycerin, that is beyond me, unfortunately.

I have none.

[Chauncey]

Sugar bite isn't that bad to me, I Hate syrupy. Obviously personal taste.

I definitely find sugar bite worse with poor unhappy ferments and from spirit run going too hard. So maybe i don't mind it so much because I try to minimize it.

I wonder if there's a way to essentially invert/convert table sugar to Maltese and if that would help.

[Chauncey]

Maltose. No dogs in the ferment after that last time

[kyolic]

Maltose. No dogs in the ferment after that last time

Interesting.

Any other feedback on this?

It is damn expensive.

[Chauncey]

I guess you would need to be able to bond two glucose molecules to make Maltose. What's the difference in AG and sugar wash that makes for a sugar bite? The type of sugar seems the most obvious...

I've definitely done plenty of UJ and other thin mash/sugarhead that had little to no bite. Happy ferments, keeping abv in check, low and slow runs... i guess some experiments are in line.

The dog makes a great hat.

[kyolic]

I guess you would need to be able to bond two glucose molecules to make Maltose. What's the difference in AG and sugar wash that makes for a sugar bite? The type of sugar seems the most obvious.

So you claim that maltose is the actual solution for the Sugar Bite rather than glycerin. I hope more people chime in and provide feedback.

[Chauncey]

Well first I'm wondering why the different sugars yield different products

[rubelstrudel]

..., alot of people are allergic to things like glycerin.....

I could not find any literature in a cursory search about allergic reactions to glycerol. There is an excedingly rare condition that causes glycerol intolerance, but that is a real fringe case. Given how much glycerol is used in food and around us. And given that glycerol is the main carrier of energy when fat is converted to energy in your body. It seems unlikely that glycerol intolerance and far less allergy is a widespread problem.

[kyolic]

I made an experiment about syrupy-ness due to glycerin. Adding a few drops of corn oil to the spirit after adding glycerin seems to solve the issue. The spirit turns back to being smooth and perfectly fluid again, and the taste doesn't get affected, at all.

[Chauncey]

I probably shouldn't have said alot of people but it definitely exists and especially for PG which alot of people use as glycerin for whatever reason

[Yummyrum]

..., alot of people are allergic to things like glycerin.....

I could not find any literature in a cursory search about allergic reactions to glycerol. There is an excedingly rare condition that causes glycerol intolerance, but that is a real fringe case. Given how much glycerol is used in food and around us. And given that glycerol is the main carrier of energy when fat is converted to energy in your body. It seems unlikely that glycerol intolerance and far less allergy is a widespread problem.

My wife has Alphagal . It's a condition she got from being bitten by a tick . It's very prevalent on this side of Australia . If a tick has just bitten another mammal and them bites you , your body gets confused and starts reacting to the introduced mamalian proteins . .... Well that's how I understand it .... Search it yourself for a better understanding . Once you body does this ,it reacts to any mamalian product .

Anyway , she can't eat anything from a Mammel now . Meat , fat , milk or any other dairy derived products , gelatine and of cause Glycerin that is mostly made from animal fat .

She's one of the luckier ones , only suffers nausea memory loss dizziness and of cause several days on the shitter after an incident . Some folk with it will have full blown anyphaxis and nearly die .

Had to take her to hospital last week because I made a curry and missed Lactic acid in the ingredients on the jar .This time she had a more servere reaction .

Glycerin is also known as humectant and E422 ,It's in a lot of stuff .

The good knews is that thanks to the Vegans , food manufacturers are waking up to it and now sourcing Glycerin from plant based oil so they can still use it but add the Vegan friendly label .

Edit: I have used the words Glycerin, Glycerine and Glycerol . They all refer to the same thing .

[Stonecutter]

Damn Yummyrum. That’s actually really interesting. Thank you for sharing Brotha.
Crazy little fucking ticks.

[gurkan]

In making commercial Rakı/Rakija/Rakiya/Ouzo, glycerin is used not only for smoothing the taste but mainly for preventing the anise oil's active substance Anethol from crystalizing in refrigerators and losing its transparency. It depends on the brand but it's usually 3 ml for 1 lt.

Also some cheap and lazy home rakı distillers add glycerin, grape aroma and anise oil to their distilled sugar washes with turbo yeast to make it taste like real rakı. It doesn't, obviously. That's because I've always thought using glycerin is like cheating, but after reading this topic now I'm curious how it would turn out if I add a few drops just for fun...

[NZChris]

It's only added when proofing, blending and bottling, so try it with one bottle at a time.

I've just bottled a sample of Jaggery Rum with added Caramel and Glycerin. It tasted quite nice on the day, but it will benefit from time to recover from proofing.

[Chauncey]

In the past I've seen alot of people post things that treat glycerin alot like carbon filtration, unnecessary if you make good ferments and have good stilling practices so ive never bothered. a vet like nzchris uses it though, maybe there is some merit. I guess when I get back to distilling I'll need to experiment with it.

It seems like a drop or two is required. People that I know use it do way more and it makes the product syrupy imo.

[greggn]

It seems like a drop or two is required. People that I know use it do way more and it makes the product syrupy imo.

At the hobbyist level, most used glycerin to add mouthfeel. Adding it to remove a negative characteristic of your product is an interesting idea.

[Dougmatt]

Read this thread over the weekend and went looking for glycerin. Everything I could find was on in the laxative section of our grocery and pharmacy stores. I heard there may be product in the hair / skin aisle. Anyone have a brand / product they can link to that they like?

[jonnys_spirit]

Vegetable Glycerin - 250mL (8.45 oz.) - Pure USP Food and Pharmaceutical Grade - Non GMO - Vegan - Sustainable Palm Derived - Humectant, Crafts, DIY, Hypoallergenic Moisturizer, Extracts https://a.co/d/hT2JS2a

Cheap and they deliver

[Chur]

Try the baking ingredients isle of the supermarket or home brew shop might have Still Spirits Glycerin.

[Sleighahh]

Read this thread over the weekend and went looking for glycerin. Everything I could find was on in the laxative section of our grocery and pharmacy stores. I heard there may be product in the hair / skin aisle. Anyone have a brand / product they can link to that they like?

I think if ya shoot it where the sun don't shine it works as a laxative. If it's >99.5% glycerin (the remainder being water) and USP (or BP) grade it's fine to use.

I proofed down some unaged cornflake whiskey last night, two bottles, 500mL each, 45%. Added a drop of glycerin to one bottle. Will check on them in a day or two and see if there's a difference.

[The Baker]

I think if ya shoot it where the sun don't shine it works as a laxative.

Yeah I got some glycerin suppositories about twelve years ago and still have them.
Or nearly all of them, not sure....

Geoff

[Dougmatt]

I was just reading “the art of blending” and found this note:

“Glycerine is often used, but it is not ad-visable to do so. It imports a velvety smoothness at first, more so, perhaps, than syrup, but it soon turns bitter.”

This would see, to indicate that it will turn bitter over time and I was curious if anyone can confirm that?

https://distillerslibrary.files.wordpre ... ing_03.pdf

[rakijamaker]

I was just reading “the art of blending” and found this note:

“Glycerine is often used, but it is not ad-visable to do so. It imports a velvety smoothness at first, more so, perhaps, than syrup, but it soon turns bitter.”

This would see, to indicate that it will turn bitter over time and I was curious if anyone can confirm that?

https://distillerslibrary.files.wordpre ... ing_03.pdf

One question though: In "the art of blending" there are several recipes for various oils and essences. For example bourbon oil:

Fusel Oil, 64 ounces. Acetate of Potassium, 4 do.
Sulphuric Acid, 4 do.
Dissolve Sulphate of Copper, 1/2 do.
and Oxalate of Ammonium, 1/2 do.
each in Water, 4 do.
Add Black Oxide of Manganese, 1 do.

Place them all in a glass percolator and let them rest for 12 hours. Then percolate and put into a glass still, and distill half a gallon of the Bourbon Oil.

Is this really safe to consume?

[Dougmatt]

To not take things to far afield of the topic, the book was written on observations of what rectifiers and producers were using to create “blended spirits” and compete in the US whiskey market (and others) about 140 years ago or so (1885). It’s a very interesting read as a historical reference. Funny when the guy who is ok with that above recipe remarks to avoid glycerine.

100 years from now, I wonder what people will say about the things we are doing. “Can you imagine they actually used Glass, stainless steel and copper??? Sheesh!”

[rakijamaker]

To not take things to far afield of the topic, the book was written on observations of what rectifiers and producers were using to create “blended spirits” and compete in the US whiskey market (and others) about 140 years ago or so (1885). It’s a very interesting read as a historical reference. Funny when the guy who is ok with that above recipe remarks to avoid glycerine.

100 years from now, I wonder what people will say about the things we are doing. “Can you imagine they actually used Glass, stainless steel and copper??? Sheesh!”

I actually did a little research on the subject and found some interesting information. I looked up the safety data sheets of an online shop that sells food flavorings. And: They also contain - for example - formic acid, ethyl acetate, butyric acid and 99% acetic acid in very low concentrations. Seems to be commonly used in the food industry.

[Sleighahh]

OK, so been a few days since I mixed up with two bottles mentioned previously. I'm just trying them side by side, not tasting them blind or in a triangle test or anything.

Aroma - I think there might be a slight difference between the two. Glycerin version has maybe slightly more corn aroma. Non-glycerin version smells a bit 'empty' compared to the other. This caught me by surprise, didn't expect to be a difference on the nose. If there is a difference, it's very, very slight.

As for flavour and mouthfeel - not really any difference at all. No way I'd be able to pick between the two in a blind test.

I put another three drops of glycerin into the bottle. Gave it a shake and tasting it straight after.

Still seems like slightly more corn aroma on the glycerin version.

It seems now the glycerin has smoothed out the mouthfeel a bit, but hasn't increased the viscosity. Like it's slicker running over my tongue, but the spirit isn't any thicker, nor has it added any noticeable sweetness.

I think maybe this version with the 4 drops of glycerin has had some of the rough edges taken off, but really, it's pretty hard to tell. I'll leave the bottles for a couple more days and see if there's any difference.

[Dancing4dan]

I have used glycerin in the past to improve mouth feel. It does work.

Achieving better mouth feel and smoother spirits by adding rolled oats to recipes. The only recipe that does not get the oats is rum which is incredibly smooth on its own.

Toasting the oats in the oven changes the flavour profile.

[contrahead]

I've understood for a long time that glycerin was sold as a wine additive, that was particularly intended for ports. My assumption was that its addition was mainly for mouthfeel. But now that I am in the process of fermenting a "must" that I plan to later fortify like a port, I am discovering that there is a little more to the glycerin picture.

https://www.lallemandwine.com/wp-conten ... making.pdf

(this link is overly talkative about skin cosmetics)
https://www.leaf.tv/articles/why-put-gl ... n-liquors/

https://www.winespectator.com/articles/ ... ol-in-wine

https://homebrewing.org/products/glycerine-usp-4-oz

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(presented by a nitty twit) Wine making 101: Adding body to wine: Many uses of Glycerin in homebrew