uncle jesse's simple sour mash method

[Saltbush Bill]

It's easier to disolve the sugar using hot backset straight from the last run......disolve then let cool over night.
Next morning add cooled backset and sugar to ferment.......top up with water n stir.....job done.

[NZChris]

Will a finished UJSM "ALWAYS" look clear?

I've never done a UJSM, but none of my UJSSMs have ever been left long enough to clear. Clearing is something you should do for neutrals, but is not so important for flavored products. If a batch looks different, you might have an infection that may, or may not, affect how it runs, the taste for better or worse, or the yield.

Dumping hot backset onto sugar will invert some of the sugar, (and I always do that), but not doing it won't give the yeast a hard time, or make much difference to the end product.

As has already been pointed out to you, OG, SG and FG are important diagnostic tools, so use them, and if you are asking for advice on a ferment, quote them.

[NormandieStill]

Experimenting once you've established a working baseline is not wrong but don't change more than one thing at a time. You're using less backset on this round so make sure that everything else is the same and that way you can see the effect of your change.

[Shine_Dad]

I'm Back!

With hopes that maybe I can get @still_Stirrin to yell at me again! ( Just Kidding! )

I am building the "Super Winter Ferment Barrel 5000"

It is a 60 Gallon Pickle Barrel that I am building on a self-built dolly - I plan to wrap the barrel in insulation and heat it with an aquarium tank heater so that I can try to continue to ferment and run during the winter.

So question regarding UJSSM:

I am going to expand out these 'super complicated' ingredients of corn/sugar/water to a 40 Gallon Bill/Recipe.

I was going to set the temperature on the heater inside the barrel to 85.

I'm use Red Star Distillers Yeast ( Been using this brand since day 1 and it has worked great. )

Can anyone think of anything I should consider adding or doing differently? Is their any reason to be concerned about not adding any additional nutrients of any type, etc., expanding this to 40 gallons from the original 5 gallon bill?

And it seems like the Yeast wants to be between 77 and 94... so thoughts on my plan to set it to 85 F?

Thanks, Really appreciate any feedback.

I'll be posting a 'build' of my insulated . heated giant barrel and dolly once I get it finished. I built the dolly this weekend. It will support 1,000lbs, so the 450lbs of my barrel/wash is no problem. Next is modifying the lid to drop in the heater and install the two air locks, etc.

[NZChris]

Be careful with drop in heaters. Heat rises, so expect to have to agitate to keep the temperature even throughout the barrel.

[NZChris]

I don’t recall ever using an airlock for UJSSM and have never had a failure. Most were covered with an old towel to keep the fruit flies out and the CO2 in.

[Sporacle]

A couple of small things maybe, the amount of backset may scale differently.
It's hard to scale up a 1 person dinner recipe to a commercial quantity due to the way a tiny error in the original recipe is magnified by volume.
Be wary of the heat generated as Chris points out.
The only other point I have is this recipe works really well because of its continous nature, my two fermentors fill my still and the backset is used to dissolve my sugar, I would say that my fermentors are usually 24hrs between the wash being removed and a fresh wash replaced.

[Grandad7]

I don't have any distillers yeast.
Can I use bakers yeast and if so, how much?

[Sporacle]

Yes you can, in my experience the amount stated in the recipe works fine

[Grandad7]

Yes you can, in my experience the amount stated in the recipe works fine

Great...Thanks

[Shine_Dad]

I don’t recall ever using an airlock for UJSSM and have never had a failure. Most were covered with an old towel to keep the fruit flies out and the CO2 in.

I don't recall ever reading this in the thread.... well let me correct that:

I was under the assumption that you want Any type of ferment to have an airlock to allow CO2 to escape...

Are you saying that might be a drawback on UJSSM?

At 40 gallons of wash... I should try to keep the CO2 in to help it do a better job at fermenting? I don't have to worry about it trying to blow off the lid of my fancy new pickle barrel? Haha.

[Shine_Dad]

Be careful with drop in heaters. Heat rises, so expect to have to agitate to keep the temperature even throughout the barrel.

My idea is to drop it in the center... suspend it from the lid directly into the center of the barrel just a couple of inches above the corn so that hopefully it equally distributes heat in the wash.

Do you recommend aerating UJSSM?

Or just dump the corn, dump the water, pre-start the yeast and so long as its below 95f just dump in the yeast and let it eat?

Or would it be better to let it start going for a couple days, then go back and stir it all up including all the way to the bottom of the corn and everything just to give it a good mix and let it start eating again to finish?

Thanks everyone!

Everyone on this forum is outstanding in regards to helping. I really appreciate everyone. Just excited to start my first ever giant wash to squeeze in a few more runs before it gets freezing outside. Just looking for feedback of any kind before I get going.

I think I plan to get it started this Saturday. Should have the barrel wrapped, the heater has already arrived, my water filters are on the way and I'll grab corn this week as well.

-ShineDad

[TwoSheds]

I don’t recall ever using an airlock for UJSSM and have never had a failure. Most were covered with an old towel to keep the fruit flies out and the CO2 in.

I don't recall ever reading this in the thread.... well let me correct that:

I was under the assumption that you want Any type of ferment to have an airlock to allow CO2 to escape...

Are you saying that might be a drawback on UJSSM?

At 40 gallons of wash... I should try to keep the CO2 in to help it do a better job at fermenting? I don't have to worry about it trying to blow off the lid of my fancy new pickle barrel? Haha.

CO2 has to go somewhere, and will blow the lid off or blow up or permanently deform just about any of the plastic and glass containers we ferment in. With beer and wine we use airlocks to keep nasties out that could ruin our product as it sits in the bottle (or an extended fermentation.)

As distillers we know what we make will be distilled shortly after it's done fermenting so many choose to use simpler means of letting CO2 escape. Airlocks aren't a problem (as long as the mash/wash doesn't foam up and clog it with something) but many just use a loose fitting lid, especially with this and other fast fermenting recipes.

What we DO want is the blanket of CO2 to keep oxygen away from the wash/mash during fermentation which could lead to off flavors. Doesn't take much, but as NZC mentioned, keeping bugs, dust, and any other debris you may have floating around your fermenting area is also important.

I haven't tried the towel method myself, but never had an issue with a loose lid on a 5 gallon bucket.

[Sailman]

OK just to answer a few of your questions, You do want to and air/o2 to the wash before you pitch the yeast. I don't usually add a heater but I have wrapped my fermenter up in a blanket to maintain a higher temperature. I've just heard too many horror stories of heaters failing and ruining the wash. Like others have said there's no need for an airlock unless you have it and you really want to use it, All I use is a loose fitting lid and I may throw a towel over that to keep the bugs away. In the picture you'll see the way I usually do it this happens to be a sweet feed run.

[subbrew]

I ferment in a pickle barrel and I did drill a hole so I could put an airlock in it. But I have found I often can't get the lid that tight but what the CO2 escapes elsewhere, not through the airlock. So I see no real need for an airlock if you don't crank down the locking ring on the lid. that lid is not designed to hold pressure and even a .1 psi pressure over 160 or so square inches of the lid is pushing up and will lift it enough to let gas escape.

Even in a 55 degree F room the first three to 4 days of fermentation will keep warm with no additional heat, just a blanket wrapped around it. After that I do have some insulated panels I put around the barrel and put an incandescent light bulb below and that is enough to maintain temp for another 5 days I give the yeast to clean up. Not sure what I will do when my stash of 75 watt bulbs burns out.

[Shine_Dad]

Update:

I got this bitch wrapped up like a Burrito... a Picture thread / build thread on my 'Winter Ferment Barrel 5000' will be posted up in a week or two.

Last night we got the entire bottom foam wrapped and blanket wrapped, then the entire body of the barrel double wrapped and strapped down with moving blankets.

Subbrew mentions 55 degree weather... I'm building this thing so I can attempt to ferment in my garage when its 20f.

If all goes well, we'll be kicking off a 40 gallon ferment by end of day Saturday. I need to finish a few welds on the dolly. Put some bumpers on the upper rails to keep the barrel centered.

Pick up 56lbs of sugar and a fresh 50lb bag of corn...

Pretty excited. We haven't been able to run anything in about a month. We had some issues with smaller ferments after doing like 10 in a row with no problems... so I threw in the towel and just dumped everything. Fresh start.

I am hoping with the aid of the heater to keep the yeast temperature consistent that we might have all 40 gallons fermented by the first weekend of october, but if not, we'll wait til the following weekend. We're going to run our 15 gallon keg setup basically nonstop that weekend to try to pull out around 4.5 gallons to get a re-stock started for winter.

Thanks for everyones input!

I will definitely update with how all of this worked out. I'm trying to be patient and understanding since this is something a bit new... but worse case I ruin $40 worth of sugar and corn and start at it again.

-ShineDad

[Shine_Dad]

I just wanted to update that everything went as planned... it went better than planned.

Friday evening we setup our snuggled up blanket barrel with 56lbs of corn, 60lbs of sugar, 45 gallons of filtered clean water and 9 tablespoons of distillers yeast.

By Saturday morning it was going nuts.

By Sunday morning it was trying to blow out the air lock and the water inside the airlock was flying around like a damn giant surfer wave in the ocean.

As of this morning, it is still outgassing like crazy and the head on top is THICC like oatmeal. She Thick. It is basically Raining inside the barrel due to the amount of outgassing/humidity being generated inside rising to the top of the lid and raining back down.

With the center-based aquarium heater, it has maintained 90F which seems to have created an ecological home for this wash and yeast because it is thriving more than any type of ferment I've ever done.

Hoping it might be cleared out enough to run a 13 gallon section of it this Saturday.

I will post pictures in another thread here in a week or two of the barrel build and everything.

-ShineDad

[JustinNZ]

Hey Shinedad, sounds like you’re having fun and it’s going well. I just proofed my first UJSSM (5 generations) to 40% abv after 4 months at 55% abv in glass on half toasted and half charred American white oak at approx 10g per litre - and sipping tonight for the very first time out of a brandy balloon it’s absolutely sensational from the nose to the throat. Couldn’t be happier with this tried and true, which really benefitted from a little bit of time. I’m sure yours will be a winner.

[Uncle Jesse]

Hey Shinedad, sounds like you’re having fun and it’s going well. I just proofed my first UJSSM (5 generations) to 40% abv after 4 months at 55% abv in glass on half toasted and half charred American white oak at approx 10g per litre - and sipping tonight for the very first time out of a brandy balloon it’s absolutely sensational from the nose to the throat. Couldn’t be happier with this tried and true, which really benefitted from a little bit of time. I’m sure yours will be a winner.

Every now and then I check this thread and posts like this make me smile.

[6 Row Joe]

Anyone out there in UJSSM land use Angel Yeast?

[Grandad7]

So, I read the instructions and they show the first run "to keep things running slowly." "2-3 drops of distillate exiting the worm every second".

What happened to the 'hard and fast' rule for stripping runs?

What am I missing?

Cheers,

[6 Row Joe]

You can strip slowly as well. Just pull off the foreshots and run it down to 10% or so. That's a stripping run that will get you all the alcohol and flavor. Then do a spirit run slowly and make careful cuts

[Evil_Dark]

Anyone out there in UJSSM land use Angel Yeast?

Angel yeast company has several different yeast strains (or model) so you have to be more precise.
Yellow Label Angel yeast doesn't require mashing, it's a combination of yeast and special enzymes.
There is also a lot of other types of yeast from Angel! Much of them are very good ones.
Yeast can provide some different flavors to the final spirit, but they have different temperature requirements and different tolerances to the %abv in the ferment. Some of them won't survive to ferments of more than 10-12%, so be sure to select a yeast that suits your recipe.
Have fun!

[Evil_Dark]

So, I read the instructions and they show the first run "to keep things running slowly." "2-3 drops of distillate exiting the worm every second".
What happened to the 'hard and fast' rule for stripping runs?
What am I missing?
Cheers,

The stripping run purpose is to concentrate the alcohol content. Nothing prevents you from collecting slowly, you may end up with an higher %abv in the low wines. BUT you will need to dilute down to below 40% to run the spirit run, so instead of adding water to dilute down, if you run the stripping run fast you will obtain a lower abv low wines, so all the liquid contained in the low wines will come from the original ferment, so more likely more flavors...
You can run as fast as your condenser is allowing you to condensate the vapors of the boiler, and be careful to not make it puke (bubbling off in the condesner by having too much heat)!

[6 Row Joe]

Stripping is just getting the alcohol and flavors out quick. You can concentrate those flavors later. It's smearing on purpose.

[Grandad7]

Thanks for the info.

It will be a few days before I give it a run.

At the moment (day 4), it's still fermenting at one pop through the airlock every two seconds.
It's been like that for 2 days.
Never had a wash so active.

However, I did alter the recipe a bit.
I added 200g of rye milled with a flour mill at the course setting.
Also I added a few oyster shells (sterilized) in a suspended basket to keep the PH in check.

Hope it all turns out OK.
Time will tell.

[still_stirrin]

Stripping is just getting the alcohol and flavors out quick. You can concentrate those flavors later. It's smearing on purpose.

Funny … I tend to think of “stripping” as reducing the water content. It does concentrate some of the “flavors” in the backset, however. Indeed, this is why some hobbyists use the backset to “dose” the next ferment —> to recapture some of the intense flavors concentrated in the backset.

Also, acids (fermentation by-products) with a high boiling point will be concentrated in the backset too. So, using backset in another mash will lower the pH (acidify it).

Stripping pulls the volatile constituents from the non-volatile constituents. A faster run (vigorous boil) will tend to “drag along” some of the less volatile stuff with the heads & hearts. And depending on what you’re making, this “smearing effect” may help you with the product when you get to a (final) spirit run, ie - more flavors.

Just another perspective of the process from my point-of-view. FWIW.
ss

[tag1260]

OK. I AM reading through this thread but it IS 154 pages long. I'm on my third batch but it went a lot longer than I planned (cleared and settled) but the taste isn't too bad. However, my new batch of sour mash isn't firing off yet but it's only been 12 hours. The last batch was bubbling away in about 5 hours. Did I let it go too long? Will it eventually start up? Should I pitch a little bit of yeast to it?
Thanks

[NZChris]

OK. I AM reading through this thread but it IS 154 pages long. I'm on my third batch but it went a lot longer than I planned (cleared and settled) but the taste isn't too bad. However, my new batch of sour mash isn't firing off yet but it's only been 12 hours. The last batch was bubbling away in about 5 hours. Did I let it go too long? Will it eventually start up? Should I pitch a little bit of yeast to it?
Thanks

How do you know it isn't fermenting? If it's because you are watching a bubbler, you might have a leak.

[Sporacle]

Some times mine start very slowly, if your last ferment work then this one should as well.
How much backset did you use on this generation?
Did you dissolve the sugar in the backset and how did you add it to the fermentor?
What temp is the fermentor at?