Honey Bear Bourbon

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BigJames
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by BigJames »

I’m thinking it’s supposed to be 120-140 proof before barrel aging but I’m not definitely sure. I will oak this down after I get it that low and see what I have
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by BigJames »

It’s running around 160 proof now, guess I’ll run low enough for the high proof 180 stuff will come down a little
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jonnys_spirit
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by jonnys_spirit »

Dougmatt wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:00 am ....Hopefully I didn’t end up with too much heads. I also did an eye test and there was no sting on jar 3, jar 2 I wasn’t positive and jar 1 stung....
An "eye test" ( :shock: ) doesn't sound like a good way to make cuts but you're using your senses (at least one of them)...

Cheers!
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by Dougmatt »

jonnys_spirit wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:53 pm
Dougmatt wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:00 am
....Hopefully I didn’t end up with too much heads. I also did an eye test and there was no sting on jar 3, jar 2 I wasn’t positive and jar 1 stung....
An "eye test" ( :shock: ) doesn't sound like a good way to make cuts but you're using your senses (at least one of them)...

Cheers!
-jonny
It’s actually pretty accurate. Try it before you diss it. :D
I just read an article about the dangers of drinking that scared the crap out of me.

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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by howie »

jonnys_spirit wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:53 pm
Dougmatt wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:00 am ....Hopefully I didn’t end up with too much heads. I also did an eye test and there was no sting on jar 3, jar 2 I wasn’t positive and jar 1 stung....
An "eye test" ( :shock: ) doesn't sound like a good way to make cuts but you're using your senses (at least one of them)...

Cheers!
-jonny
you learn something everyday on this site, i've never heard of this before.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=25688
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

The eye thing is indeed one way to test, but from my understanding, it should be more of a verification tool in additional to taste and smell. I've personally found it's not the best way to judge your heads cutoff as a stand alone method.

Looking at those cuts, you may be a little further into the heads than I would ever go, but it's your product and your taste is what matters. Me personally, for most products, I make sure I'm completely clear of heads. I've ruined blends before by being only 1 jar too greedy.

For this recipe, I have found that it's true, the honey flavor is in the late heads, but I stress "late." The heads before this are straight chemical-y. For this reason, I make sure to collect in very small increments right before I hit hearts as to get the flavors I want, without the headache inducing early stuff. That apple-y flavor you're detecting is likely heads components. If it burns the tip of your tongue/lips when you're tasting diluted samples, it's heads and shouldn't be included in your final product.

As for the "whiskey rules" for proof coming off the still, there are contradicting views on this. If you're potstilling, this should never be an issue. Many members on here make whiskey with a flute "plated column," myself included. I've been able to get some nice, flavorful products at 92% ABV. Lately, I only use two plates in a single run and get a final product that's around 86% ABV with plenty of flavor. Sure, nothing beats pot-stilling whiskey with two runs, but my method saves me time and I get a cleaner product that suits my taste.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by jonnys_spirit »

Dougmatt wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:49 pm
jonnys_spirit wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:53 pm
Dougmatt wrote: Fri Sep 16, 2022 4:00 am
....Hopefully I didn’t end up with too much heads. I also did an eye test and there was no sting on jar 3, jar 2 I wasn’t positive and jar 1 stung....
An "eye test" ( :shock: ) doesn't sound like a good way to make cuts but you're using your senses (at least one of them)...

Cheers!
-jonny
It’s actually pretty accurate. Try it before you diss it. :D
I'm not dissing it :) but I am already blind in one eye due to a "knife fight" at an old condemned haunted house down by the O&D train tracks between reston and herndon VA when I was 12 years old... I could use that eye without worrying too much...

Sorry for the OT comments!

Cheers!
-jonny
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i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by Dougmatt »

BrewinBrian44 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:06 am
Looking at those cuts, you may be a little further into the heads than I would ever go, but it's your product and your taste is what matters. Me personally, for most products, I make sure I'm completely clear of heads. I've ruined blends before by being only 1 jar too greedy.

For this recipe, I have found that it's true, the honey flavor is in the late heads, but I stress "late." The heads before this are straight chemical-y. For this reason, I make sure to collect in very small increments right before I hit hearts as to get the flavors I want, without the headache inducing early stuff. That apple-y flavor you're detecting is likely heads components. If it burns the tip of your tongue/lips when you're tasting diluted samples, it's heads and shouldn't be included in your final product.
Thank you. Very helpful. Running a second spirit run right now so timing is perfect.

On the eye test, I use as verification too, but I think I shouldn’t have ignored the other senses telling me not to add that jar…. It’s in a badmo barrel that I plan to add this spirit run too. Wondering if I should resdistll the first batch and make tight cuts before blending them…..

I run a pot that has a slobber box which I pack with copper. My proof runs very high so
I just read an article about the dangers of drinking that scared the crap out of me.

That’s it. No more reading!
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

Dougmatt wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:01 pm
BrewinBrian44 wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:06 am
Looking at those cuts, you may be a little further into the heads than I would ever go, but it's your product and your taste is what matters. Me personally, for most products, I make sure I'm completely clear of heads. I've ruined blends before by being only 1 jar too greedy.

For this recipe, I have found that it's true, the honey flavor is in the late heads, but I stress "late." The heads before this are straight chemical-y. For this reason, I make sure to collect in very small increments right before I hit hearts as to get the flavors I want, without the headache inducing early stuff. That apple-y flavor you're detecting is likely heads components. If it burns the tip of your tongue/lips when you're tasting diluted samples, it's heads and shouldn't be included in your final product.
Thank you. Very helpful. Running a second spirit run right now so timing is perfect.

On the eye test, I use as verification too, but I think I shouldn’t have ignored the other senses telling me not to add that jar…. It’s in a badmo barrel that I plan to add this spirit run too. Wondering if I should resdistll the first batch and make tight cuts before blending them…..

I run a pot that has a slobber box which I pack with copper. My proof runs very high so
You might be okay on your previous blend, just give it another taste and see if it gives you that numbing burning sensation on the tip of the tongue or has a chemical like flavor. The good thing about badmo barrels is it gives the bourbon a long time to age without over oaking, which can really smooth things out if you’re cutting a little wide. If you haven’t started your new spirit run yet, you can always add it to this run.

As for your proof off the still, if it tastes good, you’re golden!
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by Evil_Dark »

I’m starting a HBB. But I only have white wheat, not the red one… And I wonder how the honey malt is upfront in the flavor? I do like the sweet bourbons, can I cranck up the honey malt amount ? Or will it ruin the recipe?
Thanks for the advice.
Regard,
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

The best wheat is the wheat ya got. Try the recommended honey malt amount before you go making it better.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by Deplorable »

*sigh*
I'm only three months into the long wait for my 5 gallon batch of this. Im starting to wish Id made a small batch of this last winter so I could supplement the single malt I'm going through too fast.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

Deplorable wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 1:15 pm *sigh*
I'm only three months into the long wait for my 5 gallon batch of this. Im starting to wish Id made a small batch of this last winter so I could supplement the single malt I'm going through too fast.
I’m with you, I wish I would have made much more a couple years back. I’ve been buying my booze from the liquor store these days since pretty much everything I’ve made is aging and I don’t want to touch it. I’ve got a pretty big volume of stuff all over the house, taking the long nap.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by Deplorable »

BrewinBrian44 wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:46 am
Deplorable wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 1:15 pm *sigh*
I'm only three months into the long wait for my 5 gallon batch of this. Im starting to wish Id made a small batch of this last winter so I could supplement the single malt I'm going through too fast.
I’m with you, I wish I would have made much more a couple years back. I’ve been buying my booze from the liquor store these days since pretty much everything I’ve made is aging and I don’t want to touch it. I’ve got a pretty big volume of stuff all over the house, taking the long nap.
Yep. I need to make several small ferments this winter to get a few gallon jugs of various shorter term aging items. My Badmo fill is at least two and a half years out, my HBB barrel (3rd fill) is probably "a midsummer night's Dram", and the corn likker barrel, while drinkable now, will probably be something I'll drain around January or February.
I pulled a small sample from my barrel of corn likker and blended in 20% single malt and tempered it down to 40% to make a nice sipper, but the straight corn, at just 10.5 months old still needs a few months to get right. the barrel it's in was used once for bourbon, then aged a Malbec for 8 months before a thorough rinse and filling with new make 100% corn at 60% ABV.
I'm going to repeat this recipe this winter, as well as a caramel malt version of it, and a couple of batches of my 75/13/12 bourbon mash bill. That'll get me a variety of spirits in the cupboards besides just single malt and vodka.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by Evil_Dark »

What is the « caramel version » that you are referring to?
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by Deplorable »

Evil_Dark wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 1:32 pm What is the « caramel version » that you are referring to?
Same mash bill but Im going to substitute Caramel Malt for the honey malt.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

Deplorable wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 1:05 pm
BrewinBrian44 wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:46 am
Deplorable wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 1:15 pm *sigh*
I'm only three months into the long wait for my 5 gallon batch of this. Im starting to wish Id made a small batch of this last winter so I could supplement the single malt I'm going through too fast.
I’m with you, I wish I would have made much more a couple years back. I’ve been buying my booze from the liquor store these days since pretty much everything I’ve made is aging and I don’t want to touch it. I’ve got a pretty big volume of stuff all over the house, taking the long nap.
Yep. I need to make several small ferments this winter to get a few gallon jugs of various shorter term aging items. My Badmo fill is at least two and a half years out, my HBB barrel (3rd fill) is probably "a midsummer night's Dram", and the corn likker barrel, while drinkable now, will probably be something I'll drain around January or February.
I pulled a small sample from my barrel of corn likker and blended in 20% single malt and tempered it down to 40% to make a nice sipper, but the straight corn, at just 10.5 months old still needs a few months to get right. the barrel it's in was used once for bourbon, then aged a Malbec for 8 months before a thorough rinse and filling with new make 100% corn at 60% ABV.
I'm going to repeat this recipe this winter, as well as a caramel malt version of it, and a couple of batches of my 75/13/12 bourbon mash bill. That'll get me a variety of spirits in the cupboards besides just single malt and vodka.
For your Corn likker barrel fill, are you getting any remaining fruity-ness from the Malbec you had in there, even though you gave it a good rinse? Seems like it could add some interesting character.

Off topic from this recipe, but I've still not made a 100% corn product with enzymes, it's something I need to try. I've got a bunch of leftover corn meal, flaked and cracked corn laying around the house. I think it's just enough to make a 25gallon mash.

As to be back on-topic, I'm probably going to pump the brakes on HBB as it's been my main focus for the past couple years and I've got A LOT of it! I'm very encouraged with the results of a single 25gallon batch of CROW bourbon last year and it's making me want to put more focus there. These small badmo barrels will make it less of a full time commitment. I'm also interested in using a very fruity ale yeast strain now that the ambient air in my fermenting area will allow an ale temp ferment. I've made a couple New England IPA's with Imperial "juice" and the result is a tropical fruit bomb. Could make good whiskey!
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by Deplorable »

BrewinBrian44 wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 5:17 am
Deplorable wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 1:05 pm
BrewinBrian44 wrote: Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:46 am
Deplorable wrote: Sat Oct 01, 2022 1:15 pm *sigh*
I'm only three months into the long wait for my 5 gallon batch of this. Im starting to wish Id made a small batch of this last winter so I could supplement the single malt I'm going through too fast.
I’m with you, I wish I would have made much more a couple years back. I’ve been buying my booze from the liquor store these days since pretty much everything I’ve made is aging and I don’t want to touch it. I’ve got a pretty big volume of stuff all over the house, taking the long nap.
Yep. I need to make several small ferments this winter to get a few gallon jugs of various shorter term aging items. My Badmo fill is at least two and a half years out, my HBB barrel (3rd fill) is probably "a midsummer night's Dram", and the corn likker barrel, while drinkable now, will probably be something I'll drain around January or February.
I pulled a small sample from my barrel of corn likker and blended in 20% single malt and tempered it down to 40% to make a nice sipper, but the straight corn, at just 10.5 months old still needs a few months to get right. the barrel it's in was used once for bourbon, then aged a Malbec for 8 months before a thorough rinse and filling with new make 100% corn at 60% ABV.
I'm going to repeat this recipe this winter, as well as a caramel malt version of it, and a couple of batches of my 75/13/12 bourbon mash bill. That'll get me a variety of spirits in the cupboards besides just single malt and vodka.
For your Corn likker barrel fill, are you getting any remaining fruity-ness from the Malbec you had in there, even though you gave it a good rinse? Seems like it could add some interesting character.

Off topic from this recipe, but I've still not made a 100% corn product with enzymes, it's something I need to try. I've got a bunch of leftover corn meal, flaked and cracked corn laying around the house. I think it's just enough to make a 25gallon mash.

As to be back on-topic, I'm probably going to pump the brakes on HBB as it's been my main focus for the past couple years and I've got A LOT of it! I'm very encouraged with the results of a single 25gallon batch of CROW bourbon last year and it's making me want to put more focus there. These small badmo barrels will make it less of a full time commitment. I'm also interested in using a very fruity ale yeast strain now that the ambient air in my fermenting area will allow an ale temp ferment. I've made a couple New England IPA's with Imperial "juice" and the result is a tropical fruit bomb. Could make good whiskey!
Out of respect for this legendary T&T recipe, I'll send you a PM to answer this, and return this discussion to the topic.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by IdontKnow »

First batch of HBB in the fermenter. My LHBS had flaked corn and I didn't go with any oats for the first run. Gotta try it as it's before modifying. I do like oats in things so well probably add some in a future batch. Did a double batch. 12 gallons fermenting on the grains. Due to flaked corn I got water right to 160 then added everything. Dropped to about 154F with the heading and stirring,covered and insulated for 4 hours then removed insulation down to 146F. Let cool to 130F then into the fermenter OG 1.062. Cooled overnight and pitched yeast 6am at 90F. Got home from work and was bubbling like a machine gun. Will have to run it off the grain as my still has internal electric elements. Hoping to run it this weekend for a stripping run. It's a 15 gallon still so should be able to do this in one run. Will be getting 2nd batch going night before so it can go right into fermenter after I empty it into my pot.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by ddizzle22 »

Man been out of it for quite sometime. Finally did a spirit run of around 11gal or so at 40% and got a great amount of of hearts collected. Going to age on charred oak spirals and see how it does. The white is great as is.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by Spokane2303 »

New to AG!

I've ordered the specialty grains and some high temp enzymes for insurance.

I'll be mashing in a 10 gallon Home Depot mash tun using a Brew-in-the-bag.

A few questions:

1. Do I need to reduce the size of my Grainland steam rolled corn?
2. I'm thinking of just fermenting, on the grain, in the mash tun; and, transferring to a carboy to clear afterwards as I use an electric element in my still kettle. Is it ok to ferment in a mash tun?
3. Should I also use a lower temperature enzyme to further breakdown the dextrins?
4. I'm also planning on adding 8oz of rice hulls to make draining the bag easier. Any concerns?

Thanks for comments!
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by bcook608 »

Spokane2303 wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 11:48 am New to AG!

I've ordered the specialty grains and some high temp enzymes for insurance.

I'll be mashing in a 10 gallon Home Depot mash tun using a Brew-in-the-bag.

A few questions:

1. Do I need to reduce the size of my Grainland steam rolled corn?
2. I'm thinking of just fermenting, on the grain, in the mash tun; and, transferring to a carboy to clear afterwards as I use an electric element in my still kettle. Is it ok to ferment in a mash tun?
3. Should I also use a lower temperature enzyme to further breakdown the dextrins?
4. I'm also planning on adding 8oz of rice hulls to make draining the bag easier. Any concerns?

Thanks for comments!
It doesn't hurt to add hi temp alpha and then dose with Gluco when you get down to around 135*f. Worst that will happen is that the alpha will successfully convert everything and you'll be out a few cents worth of gluco that wasn't needed. It's good insurance.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

Got around to some bottling today.

Lots of HBB in the house right now. I currently have a full 5 gallon barrel sleeping quietly, a carboy full from when I emptied my last barrel and 3 quart jars with oak barrel stave sticks “Buffalo Trace barrel” with different char and toast treatments.

I bottled the 3 quarts with the barrel wood and proofed them down to 45% after a year of aging. They are VERY different from one another. Part of the experiment was trying a lower aging proof. All 3 jars started with the same white spirit at the same 53% aging proof. I normally age around 60%-62.5%. My thought was less dilution for the final bottling proof would yield a richer flavor, which seems to have worked for me.

Jar 1) Toasted at 400 degrees for 2hrs, heavy char.
Tastes like Maple syrup, caramel, vanilla and a little sweet tobacco finish. Amazing! The clear winner.

Jar 2) Toasted at 400 degrees for 2hrs, uncharred.
Has a slight buttery and earthy nose. Flavor is butterscotch and vanilla with a hint of oaky-ness. Tasted terrible for a long time and finally came around.

Jar 3) Untoasted, Standard char.
More caramel and vanilla with some cherry/grape fruitiness. Also very good. This one surprised me because it tasted terrible at 6 months.

All three seem to have the same reddish amber color which is also a surprise. They were very different just a few months ago. This experiment is definitely a reminder of how wood makes bourbon what it is and a great variable to dial in flavor.

Now with all that said, I mixed all three jars in equal proportions into a taster glass and it’s fantastic. All the different oak treatments combined really ratchet up the complexity. I look forward to more experiments like this to hopefully create a nice stockpile for blending.

Cheers!
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by NorthWoodsAb »

That sounds awesome Brian.
Cheers
Last edited by NorthWoodsAb on Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

Great job, Brian. Good patience. Great contribution, on the wood notes. Thanks.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by BoomTown »

ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:11 pm Great job, Brian. Good patience. Great contribution, on the wood notes. Thanks.
Great to see you’re still around…
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by Dougmatt »

BrewinBrian44 wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 2:55 pm This experiment is definitely a reminder of how wood makes bourbon what it is and a great variable to dial in flavor.
Thanks for sharing. Very interesting results.
I just read an article about the dangers of drinking that scared the crap out of me.

That’s it. No more reading!
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 4:11 pm Great job, Brian. Good patience. Great contribution, on the wood notes. Thanks.
Thanks SCD. The original plan was a little more age on the jars, but I had to pull the trigger. Ive got so much stuff aging right now, I have nothing to actually drink!

I’ve also got a gallon of your CROW bourbon recipe aging in glass with the same barrel wood. At one year, it’s already very good, but I’m going to take the advice of others and leave it even longer.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by tjsc5f »

BrewinBrian44 wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 2:55 pm oak barrel stave sticks “Buffalo Trace barrel” with different char and toast treatments.
Did you aquire an entire barrel and break it down yourself? I'm curious what length of stave stick you used for the quarts, and if/how you cleaned it up prior to toast and char.
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Re: Honey Bear Bourbon

Post by jonnys_spirit »

tjsc5f wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 7:35 am
BrewinBrian44 wrote: Sun Nov 20, 2022 2:55 pm oak barrel stave sticks “Buffalo Trace barrel” with different char and toast treatments.
Did you aquire an entire barrel and break it down yourself? I'm curious what length of stave stick you used for the quarts, and if/how you cleaned it up prior to toast and char.
Some folks endearingly refer to them as "Oak Fingers" or "Domino's"... About the size of a finger - give or take... Home depot half planter barrel is common and cheap. I just cut them up with a chop saw and table saw into finger sized pieces then char with a blowtorch... Lotsa info around here on toasting and charring if you dig a little..

How much you use depends on how you want it to turn out. 4x fingers/gallon or half that is a good safe start :)

Cheers!
-j
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i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
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