Extended fermentation , Good or Bad?

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A BIT DIFFERENT
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Extended fermentation , Good or Bad?

Post by A BIT DIFFERENT »

Good day all

I need to run this by the more experienced distillers. I started a BWTPW on the 19th of March 2022. Fermentation was by the book. After reaching 1.00 I refrigerated it to settle the yeast. I siphoned the clear stuff off the yeast and placed it in a bucket with the intention of doing a stripping run and then spicing it up for a gin.

Living in South Africa, we have what is known as "load shedding". This is basically the cutting off of the electricity supply for up to four and a half hours a day to prevent a total collapse of the power grid. Yup, our government since 1994 ("democracy") have embezzled and stolen the money intended to keep the government owned institutions running and liquid. So, one of the biggest State Owned Entities, Eskom (Electricity Supply Commission), never attended to the regular maintenance of the power stations which is now resulted in regular breakdowns and power outages and real threat of a total collapse.

I have a reasonably pressured job and only really have weekends to distill. I use a propane burner for the boil, but I rely on a small electric pump to circulate the water through the condenser. Thus, it has become close to impossible to start a run.

Anyway, getting back to the TPW. I have had it in a bucket now for about 5 months. It still looks fine. It still smells fine, and the taste is very dry. The only thing I notice (because the bucket is sealed) is that about every three days I have to open the bucket and release the pressure (lid becomes domed) which tells me that there is still fermentation going on. I tested the gravity yesterday and it has gone down now to below .990, and the hydrometer is almost completely below the surface.

My joy is that I have way more alcohol than anticipated, but my concern is, is this going to have an effect on the product when I finally get to distill?
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Re: Extended fermentation , Good or Bad?

Post by Sporacle »

:D There is only one way to find out, just run it
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Re: Extended fermentation , Good or Bad?

Post by Yummyrum »

Best if you can avoid constantly opening the lid , but yeah , most washes can be left several months or more and be perfectly fine to run . I’ve had some over 6 months and have heard of one that was 18 months old and still OK .

If you keep opening the lid , you risk getting an infection in there .

Edit: I feel your plight regarding poor management of infrastructure , but lets keep it not political .
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Re: Extended fermentation , Good or Bad?

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A BIT DIFFERENT wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:24 pm Living in South Africa, we have what is known as "load shedding". This is basically the cutting off of the electricity supply for up to four and a half hours a day to prevent a total collapse of the power grid. Yup, our government since 1994 ("democracy") have embezzled and stolen the money intended to keep the government owned institutions running and liquid. So, one of the biggest State Owned Entities, Eskom (Electricity Supply Commission), never attended to the regular maintenance of the power stations which is now resulted in regular breakdowns and power outages and real threat of a total collapse.
And that is the main reason i went 100% solar - Eskom's se moer!
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A BIT DIFFERENT
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Re: Extended fermentation , Good or Bad?

Post by A BIT DIFFERENT »

Thanks yummy. Problem is that the bucket seals. I thought it was done fermenting. If I don't release the pressure it will release itself.

I mean?? How far will it still go?
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Re: Extended fermentation , Good or Bad?

Post by A BIT DIFFERENT »

Edit: I feel your plight regarding poor management of infrastructure , but lets keep it not political .

Noted.
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Re: Extended fermentation , Good or Bad?

Post by Yummyrum »

Sounds like it hadn’t finished fermenting out . Maybe jeep it under airlock until you are ready to distill it .

I must say that some TPW have taken longer than a month to fully finish especially if the temps were low.
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Re: Extended fermentation , Good or Bad?

Post by Yummyrum »

:thumbup:
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Re: Extended fermentation , Good or Bad?

Post by Dougmatt »

A BIT DIFFERENT wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 1:38 am Thanks yummy. Problem is that the bucket seals. I thought it was done fermenting. If I don't release the pressure it will release itself.

I mean?? How far will it still go?
It’s probably been done awhile, it’s just full of co2 gas that will pop the top. You are better keeping it under airlock than a tight bucket lid that you have to keep opening (or having pop off).

As for is it good, I expect it is. Wine sits for months in my cellar (sometimes years) before I bottle or brandy it. I do make sure to keep it under airlock with very low headspace during that time to prevent spoilage and infection though.
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Re: Extended fermentation , Good or Bad?

Post by Salt Must Flow »

If I had disruptive blackouts, I'd get a deep cell 12V battery and a 12V pump. If that doesn't last long enough, I'd look into adding a solar panel to keep keep the battery charged (or another battery). I imagine one battery should be fine though for just one little 12V pump.
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Re: Extended fermentation , Good or Bad?

Post by A BIT DIFFERENT »

Salt Must Flow wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 5:52 am If I had disruptive blackouts, I'd get a deep cell 12V battery and a 12V pump. If that doesn't last long enough, I'd look into adding a solar panel to keep keep the battery charged (or another battery). I imagine one battery should be fine though for just one little 12V pump.
Yes Salt, it is what has to be done.
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Re: Extended fermentation , Good or Bad?

Post by A BIT DIFFERENT »

Dougmatt wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 3:20 am
A BIT DIFFERENT wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 1:38 am Thanks yummy. Problem is that the bucket seals. I thought it was done fermenting. If I don't release the pressure it will release itself.

I mean?? How far will it still go?
It’s probably been done awhile, it’s just full of co2 gas that will pop the top. You are better keeping it under airlock than a tight bucket lid that you have to keep opening (or having pop off).

As for is it good, I expect it is. Wine sits for months in my cellar (sometimes years) before I bottle or brandy it. I do make sure to keep it under airlock with very low headspace during that time to prevent spoilage and infection though.
Thanks Dougmatt. You learn something new everyday. :thumbup:
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Re: Extended fermentation , Good or Bad?

Post by Knife_man »

My apple brandy was 7 year old Cider , not stabilized or pasturised or anything , just racked into a large container sealed and put under the stairs and forgotten about for 7 years.

Still looked, tasted and smelt good so I ran it.

It's not aged out yet but the "samples" have been good. 👍.

Don't forget that one of the reasons for fermenting things in the first place is to preserve them.
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Re: Extended fermentation , Good or Bad?

Post by jonnys_spirit »

If it's still gassing out CO2 then that will protect it from O2 issues as will the likely low'ish pH... Wines are stored for donkeys years as well with the only thing protecting it are minimizing exposure to O2, the abv, and the acidity of the wine... ABV of 12'ish percent and pH in the 3.2 - 3.8 range are a good thing for longevity as well as keeping O2 out. I saw somewhere that one person just throws a handful of sugar in every once in a while to keep some CO2 production happening...

Cheers!
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Re: Extended fermentation , Good or Bad?

Post by Twisted Brick »

A BIT DIFFERENT wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:24 pm
Living in South Africa, we have what is known as "load shedding". This is basically the cutting off of the electricity supply for up to four and a half

My joy is that I have way more alcohol than anticipated, but my concern is, is this going to have an effect on the product when I finally get to distill?
Funny, other members have the same volume problem, what is inversely known as "shed loading". This is where a number of stripping runs have produced gallons of low wines that continue to wait to be run while the distiller takes advantage of favorable fermenting temps. :mrgreen:
jonnys_spirit wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:45 am If it's still gassing out CO2 then that will protect it from O2 issues as will the likely low'ish pH... Wines are stored for donkeys years as well with the only thing protecting it are minimizing exposure to O2, the abv, and the acidity of the wine... ABV of 12'ish percent and pH in the 3.2 - 3.8 range are a good thing for longevity as well as keeping O2 out. I saw somewhere that one person just throws a handful of sugar in every once in a while to keep some CO2 production happening...

Cheers!
-j
FWIW, Otis shared an earlier thread his C02 generator, simply a steady volume of C02 pumped directly into the fermenter via a tube from a sugar wash.
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Re: Extended fermentation , Good or Bad?

Post by Stonecutter »

Twisted Brick wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 9:39 am
A BIT DIFFERENT wrote: Mon Oct 03, 2022 11:24 pm
Living in South Africa, we have what is known as "load shedding". This is basically the cutting off of the electricity supply for up to four and a half

My joy is that I have way more alcohol than anticipated, but my concern is, is this going to have an effect on the product when I finally get to distill?
Funny, other members have the same volume problem, what is inversely known as "shed loading". This is where a number of stripping runs have produced gallons of low wines that continue to wait to be run while the distiller takes advantage of favorable fermenting temps. :mrgreen:
jonnys_spirit wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 8:45 am If it's still gassing out CO2 then that will protect it from O2 issues as will the likely low'ish pH... Wines are stored for donkeys years as well with the only thing protecting it are minimizing exposure to O2, the abv, and the acidity of the wine... ABV of 12'ish percent and pH in the 3.2 - 3.8 range are a good thing for longevity as well as keeping O2 out. I saw somewhere that one person just throws a handful of sugar in every once in a while to keep some CO2 production happening...

Cheers!
-j
FWIW, Otis shared an earlier thread his C02 generator, simply a steady volume of C02 pumped directly into the fermenter via a tube from a sugar wash.
This is brilliant! Simple and effective.
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Re: Extended fermentation , Good or Bad?

Post by OtisT »

A bit different,
You got great advice on your original question. I’ll just add something new regarding your lack of power issue running your cooling. You could try a gravity feed for cooling water. Use a needle valve to manage the flow. Way cheaper than solar.

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A BIT DIFFERENT
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Re: Extended fermentation , Good or Bad?

Post by A BIT DIFFERENT »

And here I am wondering why it took me so long to join up.

Hell guys. So much enthusiastic and helpful info.

Really really do appreciate it.
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Re: Extended fermentation , Good or Bad?

Post by A BIT DIFFERENT »

Funny, other members have the same volume problem, what is inversely known as "shed loading". This is where a number of stripping runs have produced gallons of low wines that continue to wait to be run while the distiller takes advantage of favorable fermenting temps. :mrgreen:


Cheers!


This is just brilliant, it is exactly what I do, except, we don't struggle with fermenting temps at all. Our weather is very very stable. Even our winters are mild compared to what some people experience, and we can ferment all year round. In fact I much prefer the fermenting process.

Then because the distillation is so time consuming and because of our inconsistent power supply I am building up a SHED LOAD!!!! (see that?) :lol: of washes. I have 16.5 gallons of BWTPW, about 17 gallons of hard apple cider, as well as 17 gallons of a grape wash. This weekend I am going to do a strawberry wash that will give me about 18 gallons when done. I also have 12 gallons of feed grade molasses waiting in the wings :think:
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Re: Extended fermentation , Good or Bad?

Post by EricTheRed »

Time to spend some of the savings (tic) on a solar system! :D
Propane is too expensive - for my rig cost me an extra R17 per litre of final barrel age (63%) product. Still cheaper than store bought, but it still adds up
Unfortunately, LI-ion batteries are expensive
how much power would you need to cover the 5 hours of load shedding?
My fekking eyes are bleeding! Installed BS Filters - better! :D
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Re: Extended fermentation , Good or Bad?

Post by A BIT DIFFERENT »

EricTheRed wrote: Wed Oct 05, 2022 2:37 am Time to spend some of the savings (tic) on a solar system! :D
Propane is too expensive - for my rig cost me an extra R17 per litre of final barrel age (63%) product. Still cheaper than store bought, but it still adds up
Unfortunately, LI-ion batteries are expensive
how much power would you need to cover the 5 hours of load shedding?
Hey Eric

I don't even know because it's never been an issue. I only started doing this because of a childhood fascination, coupled with the fact that I love doing these sorts of things, and then also because I have access to the materials used to make the stills. I am not even a drinker. Most of my product I just give away to friends. I might have a shot of schnapps now and then on a Sunday after a heavy meal or if a friend comes over I might have a tasting session, but if I have consumed more than a litre of my own stuff since I started in 2020 then it is a lot.

I get a kick out of producing something with my hands.

I get a bit hot under the collar though when I get people pushing me for "a bottle or two" because it is free, and then hear how they just banged it in a glass with coke and got as plastered as all hell, and then ask for more.

Anyway I digress. As I said, it has never been an issue because the time I have for distilling is very limited and I was always able to get it done, but the recent run of load shedding has really thrown a spanner in the works. I am not concerned at all with the cost per bottle. I do it for the pure enjoyment. I am however going to look at installing basic inverters and batteries.

Cheers
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Re: Extended fermentation , Good or Bad?

Post by zach »

Seems like a few barrel of waters, a bucket, and a worm condenser could overcome the lack of electrical power for a lower cost than solar, batteries and inverters.

When making wine, I inoculate with a malolactic bacteria after primary fermentation, for a malolactic fermentation, which releases CO2. Maybe that is what is happening with the extended fermentation with the low specific gravity.

I live in house with 40 kw of solar panels that are useless when the grid is down. This is in a country in the stages of societal collapse where there is talk of power curtailments. I've investigated batteries and inverters, but to keep the well pump running. I'm going to get a generator before they are outlawed.
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