T500 and cuts

[Ndb]

About to do my first ever run i will be borrowing my mates T500.
Ive made a TFFV and also TPW birdwatchers.
After all the reading and videos and chat ive come to the conclusion that i will have to make cuts.
I had a chat to my mate im borrowing the still off and he has said that i will only have to get rid off the foreshots amd after that there will be noeheads just straight into hearts, his reasoning is because its a reflux still.

I feel like this is not correct can i have some advice please..

[dunluce]

All the advice you need is here on the forum.

Yes, you will need to make cuts. I'm interested in what he considers to be a "reflux still".

Do you have a pic of it?

[Archee72]

viewtopic.php?t=11640

[Archee72]

viewtopic.php?t=68702

[6 Row Joe]

Depending on how much you have to distill, I would try a stripping run (run it withought any cuts and collect everything from start to finish) and then a spirit run (with cuts) Because you are not experienced with cuts, collect it in small jars, throwing out the first jar (depending on how much you are running). These are the fore shots and you don't want them. With the spirit run divided in smaller quantities you can dilute and taste through them, starting around the middle somewhere, and come up with the hearts and some of the heads and tails for a good mix. Sorry If I am boring you. I don't know forsureif you have any experience..Read up. There's a lot of good info here on this site.

[dunluce]

I think I saw on another post that your friend had eight years of distilling experience.

I have uncles in their seventies who have a lot more than that, and after discussing with them some of the things on here, I believe that they could still learn a lot.

I guess what I am saying is that all the experience in the world isn't worth squat if it's not good experience.

[juana_b]

I guess what I am saying is that all the experience in the world isn't worth squat if it's not good experience.

In some Chinese martial arts this is called the "inches mistake". If one practices something just an inch away from correctly, over time this error will turn into miles.

[Yummyrum]

Yes you should do cuts .
Most T500 users that have always followed the instructions have no idea how much crap they are drinking .
I would suggest collecting in about 200ml amounts if its your first time . Obviously the first jar will be solvent like foreshots , but you’ll clearly detect the sickly fruity heads in the next jar or two before the hearts start

Likewise , once you have tasted the tails from a reflux still , you can never “untaste” them again .

My brother in law uses a T500 and just does a foreshots cut and stops collecting when he feels like it . Booze has a bad burn and tastes of compressed tails

Do the cuts .

[Saltbush Bill]

Was going to answer this , this morning but ran out of time.

Most T500 users that have always followed the instructions have no idea how much crap they are drinking .

Yummy is right , your friend is settling for second grade booze and just doesn't know what he doesn't know yet.
The instructions given by Still Spirits and the average home brew shop owner should be ignored if you want to make good booze.
By the way Ive run T500s quite a bit .....its how I started out in distilling , so I do know what works and what doesnt.
Do make cuts .....use lots of small jars until you learn whats what.......then you can cut back on the amount of jars and make them bigger, but not till you learn what your doing.
Making good cuts.....NOT JUST TAKING A FORES CUT...is the most important things to learn if you wish to make good booze using any reflux still.
The other most important things IMO is to start with a good clean wash, the washes you have chosen to use are good, but Shady Sugar shine will out shine both in IMO.
Stripping runs will also make for a better and cleaner booze.
Learning to run the still by adjusting the reflux rate /water flow to the reflux condenser instead of being a slave to those silly little thermometers will also make you a better distiller and be easier in the long run......aim to have a slow drip leaving the still till fores are gone......heads at a faster drip......hearts faster again almost a broken stream.......you dont need to watch a thermometer to judge that .....just your eyes and to be able to adjust water flow.

[Yummyrum]

Gold info from Salty
But this is the take home info .

Learning to run the still by adjusting the reflux rate /water flow to the reflux condenser instead of being a slave to those silly little thermometers will also make you a better distiller and be easier in the long run......aim to have a slow drip leaving the still till fores are gone......heads at a faster drip......hearts faster again almost a broken stream.......you dont need to watch a thermometer to judge that .....just your eyes and to be able to adjust water flow.

If you can do that , you can run any 2” reflux still .

Incidentally ,he is talking about what you are collecting , not the coolant water flow . It will be what it is to achieve the result above .

[Saltbush Bill]

If you can do that , you can run any 2” reflux still .

Incidentally ,he is talking about what you are collecting , not the coolant water flow . It will be what it is to achieve the result above .

Thanks for pointing that out Yummy

[Ndb]

Thanks everyone.
My gut instinct after reading for 8 to 10 months was to take cuts and smaller ones at that. For my first time.
My washes are only 23l of each so a stripping run seems to be out of question. This is more for learning to refine and ise a still amd learn about cutting.
In hind sight i probably should have made a larger volume. But baby steps to start

[Dathhu]

If your only doing the one wash, run it through with a fores cut. Run it fast, well at least as fast as the T500 will go safely.

Chuck out the first couple hundred ml, get rid of the fores and the nastiest heads.

Now you can either save this for another run, or dilute the hell out of it and run it again. Never liked a one and done from the T500 myself when I was running it. Stripped two batches and put together made a good spirit run.

Myself, I'd save it, do another run, combine them and water it down to make up the still volume. Now when you run it again, the extra water is going to help clean it up. It helps hold some of the tails in the still and helps differentiate your cuts.

It will make cuts a hell of a lot easier, just make sure you run your spirit run slowly. Make cuts into small jars. Smell the jars, taste the jars after diluting a sample down to a sensible ABV. Do it right, I'm sure you'll pick up major differences between the first, middle and last jars.

Don't get too hung up if you can't pick it all out on your first couple runs, picking the difference between heads, hearts and tails is hard if you haven't done it before. Just be warned that once you do, you'll be finding how messed up all the commercial stuff is.

And don't worry too much if you mess it up. Running a reflux still, if it's not right, just dilute it and run it again, maybe slower, maybe tighter cuts.

If you can, look into adding a pot still head. Strip then spirit, may be a little more time, but easier and larger keeping cuts. Plus then you can also look into whiskeys, rums, gins, brandys...

[Archee72]

Thanks everyone.
My gut instinct after reading for 8 to 10 months was to take cuts and smaller ones at that. For my first time.
My washes are only 23l of each so a stripping run seems to be out of question. This is more for learning to refine and ise a still amd learn about cutting.
In hind sight i probably should have made a larger volume. But baby steps to start

Not out of the question, do a fast stripping run of your 23l, then dilute the resulting low wines with water and run again for your spirit run as explained by SB & Yummy. Read through those pages on cuts I pasted for you.

[6 Row Joe]

Thanks everyone.
My gut instinct after reading for 8 to 10 months was to take cuts and smaller ones at that. For my first time.
My washes are only 23l of each so a stripping run seems to be out of question. This is more for learning to refine and ise a still amd learn about cutting.
In hind sight i probably should have made a larger volume. But baby steps to start

The only way you will get good at making cuts is to run your still slow and taste the drip off the spout onto your finger as the process continues. It won't take long and you will be able to figure out what to throw out (forshots) , what is heads. what is hearts, and what are tails.

[Saltbush Bill]

The only way you will get good at making cuts is to run your still slow and taste the drip off the spout onto your finger as the process continues.

I dont know that , that is the ONLY way, different folk seem to smell and taste differently.......my preferred way is to smell, but to use pretty much the same method.
The one thing that I do find does help when smelling is to rub the spirit hard and fast between two fingers .....or on the palm of the other hand as you smell.
The friction of rubbing seems to bring out the different smells.....especially if there is a hint of tails.
In the end we all find our own ways, in the end what does matter is that you have to learn to make cuts, it cant be avoided.

[Ndb]

I think im going to strip both washes and blend together and do a spirit run. I hvae nothing to lose i suppose.
I think i will strip down till 10% abv. Does this sound right.
Spirit run will be slow with starting anv below 40% ABV and running in to tails at 20% ABV

[bcook608]

I think im going to strip both washes and blend together and do a spirit run. I hvae nothing to lose i suppose.
I think i will strip down till 10% abv. Does this sound right.
Spirit run will be slow with starting anv below 40% ABV and running in to tails at 20% ABV

I would strip until your total low wines is between 20%-30% put your alcoholmeter in your collection vessel (about one gallon +/- for a 23l wash depending on abv) Then combine your low wines and you won't have to dilute unless it's to ensure the element stays covered.

[6 Row Joe]

I think im going to strip both washes and blend together and do a spirit run. I hvae nothing to lose i suppose.
I think i will strip down till 10% abv. Does this sound right.
Spirit run will be slow with starting anv below 40% ABV and running in to tails at 20% ABV

Other than using a little more energy, stripping to 10% or below is fine. There may be some flavors in that low proof you throw out if you stop at a higher proof. The spirit run and careful cuts will get you a good product.

[buchrob]

Graduated from a T500 to a more conventional reflux still. Now find that whatever I collected via T500 needs another spirit run to be rid of residual nastiness. One size fits all with no logical methodology doesn't "cut" it.

Suggestion for making cuts: you can use a finger-in-the-path method for doing rough cuts, but doing final cuts: start with the middle jars (most likely closest to heart) and work your way outwards. Minimizes the likelihood of a nasty taste being stuck in your mouth and tainting your judgement beyond.

[Saltbush Bill]

Other than using a little more energy, stripping to 10% or below is fine. There may be some flavors in that low proof you throw out if you stop at a higher proof.

Not looking for flavour here............it's a reflux still used for neutral type products.

[6 Row Joe]

Other than using a little more energy, stripping to 10% or below is fine. There may be some flavors in that low proof you throw out if you stop at a higher proof.

Not looking for flavour here............it's a reflux still used for neutral type products.

Oops, I should have backread a little more.

[Ndb]

UPDATE

After much advise from the forum pros, my first run is in the bag.
I stripped both batches down to zero. Total low wines 15L at 35% ABV.
NOTE threw away first 100ml in both runs.

Then spirit ran this taking taking 100ml of foreshots before collecting in 200ml cuts. Stopped run after 4 hrs still coming of the still at 92%.
Will start again tongiht and continue the run.

While cutting i did the finger in front of spout method rubbed and smelt.
First with the heads definitely got acetone smell.
Hearts not sure what i smelt BUT i also took a straw and too one of the jars and did the finger on top trick took a sample and diluted with water to taste, and BOOM definitely knew i was in hearts no so called PRICKLE, easy drinking vodka.

Just wanted to say thanks everyone amd will keep you updated

[6 Row Joe]

UPDATE

After much advise from the forum pros, my first run is in the bag.
I stripped both batches down to zero. Total low wines 15L at 35% ABV.
NOTE threw away first 100ml in both runs.

Then spirit ran this taking taking 100ml of foreshots before collecting in 200ml cuts. Stopped run after 4 hrs still coming of the still at 92%.
Will start again tongiht and continue the run.

While cutting i did the finger in front of spout method rubbed and smelt.
First with the heads definitely got acetone smell.
Hearts not sure what i smelt BUT i also took a straw and too one of the jars and did the finger on top trick took a sample and diluted with water to taste, and BOOM definitely knew i was in hearts no so called PRICKLE, easy drinking vodka.

Just wanted to say thanks everyone amd will keep you updated

There you go! It sounds like it is turning out well for you and you will have a lot of tasty hooch!