Strange Spirit Run

[Boda Getta]

I did a Wheat whiskey mast of 60% Red Winter Wheat, 25% Corn and 15% Malt, the mash went down to a hair under 1.0 and the stripping went fine as well. I did the spirit run yesterday and ended up with mostly heads. I ended up with 24 pt jars. I ditched a pt of hot shots. No. 1 was 70 proof,
No. 2 - No 12 stayed steady at 140 proof. It wasn't until around N0. 15 until I was in what I consider hearts, around 140'ish. It then dropped off like a rock into tails and I had to go down to around 15 proof to end up with 24 jars. I let the jars air about 1 1/2 days, then made my "cuts" tonight. Early in my distilling I was greedy and ended up with hot whiskey. The last one took .about 4 years until it was drinkable so since then I have made tight cuts.
The cuts tonight did not go well, out of 24 jars only around 4 "made the cut". I have never had this problem before and didn't know to do. I considered adding to my mixed feints, then decided to dilute down 70 proof and re-run. (I guess this will actually be feint run as much as a third distillation. My question is, what caused this. I did run real slow, I think I remember reading that you can run too slow (cool)
Any of you guys ever have this happen? I will be do the re-run in a day or so and what I do make it doesn't happen again.
Any thoughts, suggestions, advice greatly appreciated.

I will add I did a 70% corn, 15% wheat, 15% malt a couple of weeks ago, both mashes were similar (except grain bill) in dryness, conditions, ect. Cuts went great and I ended up with two gallons of some of the best wheated bourbon I've and can't wait to put it a Gibbs Bros 3 gal keg.
Any ideas on the whet run?

BG

[still_stirrin]

BG,

I have a wheat whiskey recipe that is very similar to yours. I found that the collected jars (24 on the spirit run) were similar to your description with headsy jars stringing to about midway through the run. And the nice tastey hearts were quite narrow. Then, the tails or late hearts at least, had a surprising big grain flavor, albeit different from a traditional bourbon flavor.

So, rather than just selecting jars to make the hearts cut, I made a blend with samples from a series of jars. This added complexity to the flavors while boosting the %ABV. By selecting the right proportion of the jars, I was able to get a nice blend suitable for aging on wood at 125 proof.

The wheat flavor (I used home malted wheat) is quite light and seemingly transparent compared to corn, barley malt, or rye. So you need to sample each jar and discern how its flavor will augment (or detract) from the blend.

You’re creating a “flavor portrait” with your senses. It takes practice and yes, experience. Don’t think you can simply dump all the “keeper” jars together and you’ll end up with a good product. It will take “a little of this” and “some of that” combined with “more of those others”.

Keep practicing. You haven’t done anything wrong. You’re just inexperienced.
ss

p.s. - I did the spirit run slower than usual so I could get better separation of the congeners in the samples. I used my stock pot potstill for the spirit run although I did the strip runs in my larger keg potstill.

[squigglefunk]

i am trying to figure out what you are doing that would make something so bad it took 4 years to be drinkable

[Boda Getta]

squigglefunk
It was a run of my normal wheated bourbon that I did a poor and way too loose job of cuts (just didn't take my time). I went ahead and charred the whiskey. When it came of the keg I could taste heads. I knew it was heady after the cuts but I was hoping the keg would settle it down. Y'all that use 3 gal kegs know that you have to be very careful how long you age in the keg or you will over oak it. I took it out of the keg and put it gal jugs and it took 3-4 years until I enjoyed it. I have friends that don't mind a little heads taste but I don't and are sensitive to it. I can taste heads in many of the cheaper bourbons.

still_stirrin

Thank you for your post. I have done several runs of wheat grain-bill and have had good luck with it. The heads jars ran thru about 75% of the jars and there just a very few of usual tails jar. one tails jar had fusal oil floating on and the end were so low in ABV to be of any use. I agree about tails in my cuts for favor and have done it many times. I think you are saying using portions of individual jars for a "blend". In some cases I have done that and actually used part of a heads jar with a tails jar and the blend of those two partial jars were decent: In this case almost all of the heads jars were way too strong heads taste and very few decent tails jars. I will re-run in a day or so, I'm thinking about maybe run 1/2 jar per fraction and see if that helps.

[jonnys_spirit]

If running it again doesn’t compress it enough maybe reflux it or consider mixing some or all into a corn beer and rerunning?

I’ve done a straight wheat and don’t remember that outcome but it was early on for me so I might feel different now. I do recycle and keep a generous feints cut on oak for bourbon/whiskey batches but throw out early heads too that I don’t reuse.

Cheers!
-j

[Renhoekk]

What yeast did you use? And what were your ferm temps?

Just wondering if the ferment could’ve been throwing off a lot of congeners

[still_stirrin]

What yeast did you use? And what were your ferm temps?

Just wondering if the ferment could’ve been throwing off a lot of congeners

Yes, without doubt … the ferment (process) caused excessive heads/solvent production. GIGO —> “garbage in … garbage out”, of course.

But, good separation should give (some) good hearts. If the potstill run didn't compress the heads well enough, then a reflux column run might help. And yes, rerunning a product that is poorly cut will give it another chance to “shine”.

And re-iterating a previous point, look to the late hearts or early tails for some grain flavor, especially with a “wheat whiskey”. So when you collect into a series of small jars, try adding a little of the backend into your hearts to boost the flavor.
ss

p.s. - Another trick for a wheat whiskey is the 1-1/2 run. Adding fresh wash to the low wines for the spirit run will give good grain flavor and net a proof off still ready for oaking. Try it.

[LWTCS]

consider mixing some or all into a corn beer and rerunning?

That is my first thought.

[NormandieStill]

And re-iterating a previous point, look to the late hearts or early tails for some grain flavor, especially with a “wheat whiskey”. So when you collect into a series of small jars, try adding a little of the backend into your hearts to boost the flavor.

In my pure wheat whisky (pot stilled), and yellow-label wheat neutral (refluxed), the late hearts seem to have a slight caramel / butterscotch flavour straight off the still. With the refluxed product this was more concentrated but overlapped far more heavily with the stinky tails. Neither of these products included malt though so I don't know if this is a characteristic of all wheat, or unmaleted wheat (or even just whichever variety of wheat tends to be grown in my area).

[Boda Getta]

I used my usual Fleischmann's, I am in the Deep South and I've had good luck with it. It handles the Souths heat well, is cheap and easily found. The mast was a sour mash (back set from the previous bourbon)and I added a gal of fresh mash to the stripping run. The mast worked dry after about a week and I was pleased with the results. A week before I did my normal bourbon 70% corn, 15% wheat (same wheat as the wheat mash) and 15% malt and the two mashes were very similar. The bourbon turned out very nice and I had high hopes for the wheat run. The spirit run went well except I noticed the proof just stayed high (almost the same 140 proof) for almost the entire instead of the gradual decrease during the run. I've been distilling AG for 15 years and have seen some weird stuff, jut not this. I had high hopes until I got into cutting it. I will re-run it in smaller fractions and maybe run just a little hotter and see what happens. As most of have learned in this hobby "You get what you get"

[FL Brewer]

My first AG corn batch seemed to have a lot of heads.... I cut too early (or so I thought), and was even thinking about redistilling, but decided to see how it aged out. At just over a year old it does not have any noticeable heady flavor or smell. I just did a spirit run on my AG white wheat malt whiskey and it seemed like the heads held in for a long time, but I'm sure it will age out quickly. I also have noticed that my perception of flavor does change based on what I've eaten recently, time of day/year, weather, maybe that's a factor.