Help running my flute.

[Stonecutter]

I’m running into an issue getting my Lyne arm to heat up after turning down the water supply to the dephlegmater. It just seems to take forever to get hot and vapor make its way to the PC.
4” column reduced to 3” lyne arm. 4 copper perf plates.

Here’s my process:
Once the boiler is up to temp and I’ve got the plates loaded I start my timer. After 30 minutes of full reflux/packing the column I decrease my dephleg water supply to a trickle. Well it’s a good 25-30 minutes after that and the lyne arm is still room temperature about 70F. Then snap everything is hot and we’re producing.
It makes it rather hard to hold back and collect the heads at a trickle the way I want. I ASSume everything I just took the time to hold back is now being pushed way too hard.
I’ve attached a photo of the lyne arm, you can see that it’s angled up. Does it need to be angled down? Is this just part of the process and maybe I should turn reflux down at like the 15 minute mark to account for the time it’s going to take to heat up the rest of the column? Any help is appreciated friends.

[Stonecutter]

Fiddling with water supply to dephleg. I think it’s got everything to do with the house water I’m using. I think I’ve got too much flow into the dephleg.

[Sporacle]

Stoney, not to sure what set up you have with your cooling water to the dephleg. A lot of what I have seen have a needle valve and a main valve that are switchable, so the main valve stays on initially and then open a valve to your pre set needle valve and shut down your main valve, that way it's a set and forget to your dephleg
On the heating issue it may be the nature of the stainless, with a small flow of vapour coming through it would take a fair amount of time to heat that, maybe insulation. I'm sure someone will know

[acfixer69]

When running my plated column. Start all cooling off. When column gets warm I open cooling to the product condenser. When first few drops come out of the spout I open water slowly reflux, until spout shuts off and plates start loading. When column is fully loaded. I turn reflux get desired for of product. I no longer do the 20-30 minutes stabilize time. Take the fores cut and off to the races.
I believe you are sub cooling during full reflux, a waste of fuel and time.

[Yummyrum]

I agree with AC fixer that yiu are probably overcooling the too right from the start .The difference between full reflux and taking off a few drips a second is about 1/4turn on a 10turn needle valve . It it the difference of the water leaving the deflag being nearly boiling hot and not quite boiling hot.
It is the difference between a trickle of water leaving the deflag or a slightly smaller trickle of water leaving it .

At full reflux , we should be running the deflag so it is hot to touch , but unfortunately , most seem to think you should have the water gushing through as fast as it can .
As a result , its usually stone cold and so is the metal above it .

The problem with that is that is when you want to start taking off product , it takes forever for the water in the deflag to warm up to the point it will let stuff past .Then , the vapour that finally gets past has to heat up all the metal to the PC .

So you want to think in reverse , start the still then slowly turn on water to deflag to stop the flow once its all warmed up . It doesn’t matter if a few ounces come over before you get control .

[Saltbush Bill]

The is no point in the 30 min reflux period before starting to draw fores off......you can start drawing them off at a slow drip pretty much as soon as all of the plates are loaded. Its just a waste of time and energy.
Im not sure why anyone would want a 3 inch lyne arm on a four inch column..........2 inch is more than enough. having said that other than it taking more time to heat that much copper it shouldnt make a difference.

Then snap everything is hot and we’re producing.
It makes it rather hard to hold back and collect the heads at a trickle the way I want. I ASSume everything I just took the time to hold back is now being pushed way too hard.

Seems to me that once it starts to produce you need more water flow to slow things up..........are you using a decent needle valve.......if you your never going to get it right......or you might with great difficulty.
Even with a needle valve the difference between a slow drip and a fast drip is only a tiny movement of the valve at times.
Are we talking perf plates or bubble caps here ?

The difference between full reflux and taking off a few drips a second is about 1/4turn on a 10turn needle valve .

I think that also depends on how much water pressure you have, theres a big difference between sump pump pressure like we use and town/city water pressure,regardless most adjustments are very minimal.

[acfixer69]

In the reflux/plate loading process the condensate can be subcooled and is usually especially when newer drivers get a super cold water feeding to the deflagmater. Most vm rookies do this too.

[Stonecutter]

The family got to carving pumpkins and then I lost my damn phone. Anyway.
You guys are awesome!

When running my plated column. Start all cooling off. When column gets warm I open cooling to the product condenser. When first few drops come out of the spout I open water slowly reflux, until spout shuts off and plates start loading. When column is fully loaded. I turn reflux get desired for of product. In longer do the 20-30 minutes stabilize time. Take the fores cut and off to the races.
I believe you are sub cooling during full reflux, a waste of fuel and time.

I’m definitely a rookie and I’m definitely sub cooling acfixer69 thank you so much for posting. My water supply is about 64F/17C. I will be putting all of this stuff into practice on my next run.

]So you want to think in reverse

Bingo Yummyrum. I was trying to be “efficient” and thinking about it backwards.

The is no point in the 30 min reflux period before starting to draw fores off......you can start drawing them off at a slow drip pretty much as soon as all of the plates are loaded. Its just a waste of time and energy.
Im not sure why anyone would want a 3 inch lyne arm on a four inch column..........2 inch is more than enough. having said that other than it taking more time to heat that much copper it shouldnt make a difference.

Seems to me that once it starts to produce you need more water flow to slow things up..........are you using a decent needle valve.......if you your never going to get it right......or you might with great difficulty.
Even with a needle valve the difference between a slow drip and a fast drip is only a tiny movement of the valve at times.
Are we talking perf plates or bubble caps here ?

I think that also depends on how much water pressure you have, theres a big difference between sump pump pressure like we use and town/city water pressure,regardless most adjustments are very minimal.

I really appreciate the input Salty! I will definitely be shortening my loading time. I’ll just do as acfixer69 suggested and start slowly taking the heads as soon as the rig is ready.
I believe I have plenty of pressure. I am using city water. I was thinking about a pressure regulator like the ones that have been suggested in the other topics. Just for when dishes are being done or whatever but now I think I’ll wait until after I apply the methods that you all have suggested.
The needle valve is decent. The difference between reflux water shut off and a trickle is something like 1/16” or 1.5mm of a turn maybe less.
Once producing the rig is very self regulating. I feel like I’ve got my reflux and power input dialed in pretty well.

Stoney, not to sure what set up you have with your cooling water to the dephleg. A lot of what I have seen have a needle valve and a main valve that are switchable, so the main valve stays on initially and then open a valve to your pre set needle valve and shut down your main valve, that way it's a set and forget to your dephleg

Using city water through a needle valve to control the dephlegmater and a pump in a large cooler to supply my shotgun product condenser. I appreciate the input Friend

[Stonecutter]

Difficulties aside I ended up having a great run. Experimented with red star premier blanc on Shady’s Sugar Shine. Not sure if it was due to the nearly two hour loading time but everything came out fairly neutral 1/2 gallon at a hair over 90%. Not nearly the floral aroma and taste that the 1118 had. Excited to see what manifests after I temper down tomorrow.

[Hoosier Shine9]

blue2 mod.jpg

Hey Stony,

Here is my set up.
I have 1 water supply coming in.
then a TEE to split to Deflag & PC.
There is a 1/4 turn valve on each "leg", Have a Needle valve on the Deflag that bypasses the 1/4 turn valve.
I like having the ability to "flood" the deflag & STOP production almost immediately.
If needed I can stop vapor & run to the restroom.

[Stonecutter]

Nice looking setup Hoosier I’m always impressed by the ingenuity and craftsmanship of the members here. For the dephleg I use a “wye” off my laundry room supply line with a couple “quick connects” on each end. Works great. and I can use it to fill my cooler for the PC pump.

[Stonecutter]

blue2 mod.jpg

Hey Stony,

Here is my set up.
I have 1 water supply coming in.
then a TEE to split to Deflag & PC.
There is a 1/4 turn valve on each "leg", Have a Needle valve on the Deflag that bypasses the 1/4 turn valve.
I like having the ability to "flood" the deflag & STOP production almost immediately.
If needed I can stop vapor & run to the restroom.

Looks like those plates have the ability to be turned “off” is that correct?

[Hoosier Shine9]

Stony,
I have done the same with the Wye on BOTH hot & cold water for the Washer.
I keep hose connected to the cold side at all times. Then connect to the hot side as needed.
I am using the White RV/Marine hoses. That way I can add hot or cold water to ferments as needed to attain desired temp. I have been doing Birdwatchers regularly.

Good eye on the valves. Yes each plate can be opened and "dump" to the plate below.
I did not build this, was built by a man out east (want to say Connecticut) Had the user name of Sammy Bear on a different forum.
He only ran it about 5 or 6 times then quit drinking/making. Was led to believe he had passed away prior to me getting it.
He sold it to a guy here who used it 8 or 10 times then put it in "storage" in the attic of his garage for about 5 years.
I got it from him.

[Archee72]

blue2 mod.jpg

Hey Stony,

Here is my set up.
I have 1 water supply coming in.
then a TEE to split to Deflag & PC.
There is a 1/4 turn valve on each "leg", Have a Needle valve on the Deflag that bypasses the 1/4 turn valve.
I like having the ability to "flood" the deflag & STOP production almost immediately.
If needed I can stop vapor & run to the restroom.

Nice looking Rig H

[Yummyrum]

Those blue sightglasses stand out .I’m sure I remember seeing a build here that used them around 2010.
But there may have been others for sure


Antway Stoney , glad you are having some fun now.

[Saltbush Bill]

SD sight glass kits as far as I know.

[Yummyrum]

SD sight glass kits as far as I know.

LOL , guess’n there's quite a few around then Salty .

[Stonecutter]

Thanks Yummy. Lots of fun to be had. The plated column is a beast.

[Stonecutter]

Stony,
I have done the same with the Wye on BOTH hot & cold water for the Washer.
I keep hose connected to the cold side at all times. Then connect to the hot side as needed.
I am using the White RV/Marine hoses. That way I can add hot or cold water to ferments as needed to attain desired temp. I have been doing Birdwatchers regularly.

Good eye on the valves. Yes each plate can be opened and "dump" to the plate below.
I did not build this, was built by a man out east (want to say Connecticut) Had the user name of Sammy Bear on a different forum.
He only ran it about 5 or 6 times then quit drinking/making. Was led to believe he had passed away prior to me getting it.
He sold it to a guy here who used it 8 or 10 times then put it in "storage" in the attic of his garage for about 5 years.
I got it from him.

Do those marine hoses give off much of a smell? I’d love to use the garden hose for fermenting but that Summer smell of rubber and water just doesn’t seem to be the best for a ferment.

[Hoosier Shine9]

blue2 mod.jpg

Hey Stony,

Here is my set up.
I have 1 water supply coming in.
then a TEE to split to Deflag & PC.
There is a 1/4 turn valve on each "leg", Have a Needle valve on the Deflag that bypasses the 1/4 turn valve.
I like having the ability to "flood" the deflag & STOP production almost immediately.
If needed I can stop vapor & run to the restroom.

Nice looking Rig H

Thanks Archee

[Hoosier Shine9]

SD sight glass kits as far as I know.

Good eye Salty.
yes from SD.
at first i was using Tri-Clamps but didn't "like the look"
Looked at SD, had a choice of Red, Blue or I believe Black.
thought the blue looked best

[Hoosier Shine9]

Stony,
I have done the same with the Wye on BOTH hot & cold water for the Washer.
I keep hose connected to the cold side at all times. Then connect to the hot side as needed.
I am using the White RV/Marine hoses. That way I can add hot or cold water to ferments as needed to attain desired temp. I have been doing Birdwatchers regularly.

Good eye on the valves. Yes each plate can be opened and "dump" to the plate below.
I did not build this, was built by a man out east (want to say Connecticut) Had the user name of Sammy Bear on a different forum.
He only ran it about 5 or 6 times then quit drinking/making. Was led to believe he had passed away prior to me getting it.
He sold it to a guy here who used it 8 or 10 times then put it in "storage" in the attic of his garage for about 5 years.
I got it from him.

Do those marine hoses give off much of a smell? I’d love to use the garden hose for fermenting but that Summer smell of rubber and water just doesn’t seem to be the best for a ferment.

Stoney,

The hoses are made to be used as water supply for Campers.
They are FDA approved for Potable Water Supply.
Never noticed any smell or taste from them. Even when we used them for the Camper in the middle of the summer.

[Stonecutter]

BC0047AC-4605-4BA3-A16F-C55AACF5AA1A.jpeg

I’ve got a rather small and most likely arbitrary question. During the heat up phase do you guys have the dephleg full of water with the return valve closed or dephleg empty? I can’t imagine my dephlegmater holding much more than a cup of water so it shouldn’t really matter. Just wondering what others are doing.

Good eye Salty.
yes from SD.
at first i was using Tri-Clamps but didn't "like the look"
Looked at SD, had a choice of Red, Blue or I believe Black.
thought the blue looked best

That blue looks snazzy Hoosier. I’m digging the industrial SS covers on this MileHi rig.

[acfixer69]

blue2 mod.jpg

Hey Stony,

Here is my set up.
I have 1 water supply coming in.
then a TEE to split to Deflag & PC.
There is a 1/4 turn valve on each "leg", Have a Needle valve on the Deflag that bypasses the 1/4 turn valve.
I like having the ability to "flood" the deflag & STOP production almost immediately.
If needed I can stop vapor & run to the restroom.

I remember that still when sammybear was building it. He dug a hole in back of his shed and buried a friggin tote to recycle the cooling water. He and I were on pints chat site many nites talking of the build. Swede and larry use to hang there too, larry was smaug back then I was "nobody" as you could be anyone at sign in.

[Hoosier Shine9]

blue2 mod.jpg

Hey Stony,

Here is my set up.
I have 1 water supply coming in.
then a TEE to split to Deflag & PC.
There is a 1/4 turn valve on each "leg", Have a Needle valve on the Deflag that bypasses the 1/4 turn valve.
I like having the ability to "flood" the deflag & STOP production almost immediately.
If needed I can stop vapor & run to the restroom.

I remember that still when sammybear was building it. He dug a hole in back of his shed and buried a friggin tote to recycle the cooling water. He and I were on pints chat site many nites talking of the build. Swede and larry use to hang there too, larry was smaug back then I was "nobody" as you could be anyone at sign in.

acfixer,
I had the same sign in there too. I wasn't around when SammyBear was building it.
I did read that he had buried the 250 gallon tote. If i remember correctly he said that he had dug by hand too.....
I was able to download & save all the pictures from his build post.
I wish I would have copied & saved the whole thread from the build.
I do remember the name Swede, I did figure out that smaug was larry.

[Hoosier Shine9]

Stoney,

as far as water in the Deflag during heat up, it depends on whether i remember to keep it empty.
I like to let 140-150 ml of fores go through & get re-condensed in the pc, then add water to deflag & stack the plates.
I am not 100% sure it makes a difference though. Water vs no water in deflag.

[SDEngr1]

I run separate water lines to me dephlegmator and condenser using a fountain pump and recirculating the water. I get much better flow rates with separate lines. My dephlegmator always has a tine amount of water (drips) running through it to maintain cooling the seals.

[Stonecutter]

Stoney,

The hoses are made to be used as water supply for Campers.
They are FDA approved for Potable Water Supply.
Never noticed any smell or taste from them. Even when we used them for the Camper in the middle of the summer.

Just got my RV/Marine drinking water hose. I can hardly wait to use it this weekend. Ugh, I was filling buckets up from the tub. This here hose will make it soooo much easier. Thank you so much for the heads up Hoosier Shine9. I can’t believe I didn’t think about this before. We’re living in the golden age of “Techno Distilling” my friends.