Hard Seltzer

Alcoholic beverages which are not classified as spirits.

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Demy
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Hard Seltzer

Post by Demy »

For a long time I have heard of "hard seltzer" especially in homebrewing places. I've never done one but I like to explore my surroundings. As far as I know, it is fermented sugar then flavored and carbonated, similar to a beer. I was wondering, wouldn't it be better to combine our neutral with water and flavorings instead of using the sugar wash as it comes out of the fermenter? It would be cleaner, without fermentation off-flovor. I don't know much, I'm interested in your experience, thank you.
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Re: Hard Seltzer

Post by Chauncey »

It'd basically some type of spirit, carbonated water, and flavoring.

Think San pelligrino with alcohol
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Re: Hard Seltzer

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Chauncey wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 11:17 pm It'd basically some type of spirit, carbonated water, and flavoring.

Think San pelligrino with alcohol
Wow, you know San Pellegrino ..
I would like to experiment with this drink, sometimes I had guests who don't want beer so it would be an excellent alternative. I thought I combined my "super filtration of fruit" technique with this drink. I thought of a rifermentation in the bottle since I do not use CO2.
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Re: Hard Seltzer

Post by Chauncey »

I'd just mix spirits with soda and flavorings on the fly. The drinks are basically liquor and club soda/seltzer cocktails anyway. Yhe soda water will be carbonated and will be fizzy whenever you pour it...
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Re: Hard Seltzer

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To play a little, I prepared a peach smoothie that will be clarified to obtain only juice. I think I only make a few refermented bottles, just to understand if it could be the right path.
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Re: Hard Seltzer

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I bought a 5 lb Co2 tank, Co2 beverage pressure regulator and plumbed it with a 1/4" brass ball valve, barbed fitting, hose and a tire inflator nozzle. I used to buy club soda, but that became too expensive in comparison to carbonating beverages myself. I use club soda bottles (because they're thicker/tougher), drill a hole through the top of the cap and install chrome valve stems. I prefer a relatively high carbonation so I set my regulator at 50 psi. When the tank is very low, I take it to a local welding supply store and they will either refill the tank or swap it out with another full tank. Approx $16-$20 per refill these days if I recall.

I make whatever drink I want, pour it into the bottle (filling the bottle approx 80% full), screw on the cap, squeeze out all the air then tighten the cap. Connect the tire inflator nozzle to the valve stem, it pressurizes while I shake for approx 10 seconds. It is best to carbonate cold liquids rather than warm liquids. Cold liquids retain Co2 better than warm liquids. You can carbonate warm liquids, refrigerate then open it, but if you open a warm carbonated beverage it releases more Co2 than cold beverages. Once carbonated you can pour it and serve immediately or any time in the future. My favorite drink is from pure neutral made from a sugar wash, diluted to 40% ABV (80 proof) vodka. I use LorAnn natural oils to flavor the vodka, dilute with water, carbonate then serve with ice. My favorite is a 1:1 blend Lemon oil and Key Lime oil. It tastes just like Sprite/7-Up, but without the sugar. I hate sweet drinks which is why this is my 'go to'. You could make an amazing Mohito using Mint oil I bet.

I've reused the same club soda bottles 100s times over and the bottle caps are one of the weakest links. The bottles can tolerate over 100 psi so there's no danger. Over a long period of time the top of the caps begin to bulge. The black gaskets on the valve stems appear to degrade with age/use so I replaced them with silicone gaskets and they've held up perfectly for well over 1 year so far.

Over the years I eventually 3D printed my own oversized bottle caps, my own bottle to cap gaskets and they are much nicer and more convenient.
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Re: Hard Seltzer

Post by rubberduck71 »

I tried 4 or 5 times to ferment seltzer, but it always turned out cloudy or sulphury-smelling/tasting, no matter how much babysitting I did with pH, ferment temp, etc, etc...

Now I just make neutral spirit (~1L 90%) and add it to 4 gal/15L of store bought spring water ($0.99 US/gal), then add my desired flavor of Olive Nation extract (it doesn't take much!) & a cup or 2 of Splenda or other sweetener. Carbonate it & next day, instant yummy seltzer. Fav flavors so far: Mango, Pineapple, Cherry/Lime, but options are limitless.
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Re: Hard Seltzer

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rubberduck71 wrote: Sat Jul 23, 2022 7:30 am I tried 4 or 5 times to ferment seltzer, but it always turned out cloudy or sulphury-smelling/tasting, no matter how much babysitting I did with pH, ferment temp, etc, etc...

Now I just make neutral spirit (~1L 90%) and add it to 4 gal/15L of store bought spring water ($0.99 US/gal), then add my desired flavor of Olive Nation extract (it doesn't take much!) & a cup or 2 of Splenda or other sweetener. Carbonate it & next day, instant yummy seltzer. Fav flavors so far: Mango, Pineapple, Cherry/Lime, but options are limitless.
This is my thought! When I deepened Selzer I saw that everyone ferment the sugar .. we distillers I think we know the problems of sugar well so I thought why not mixing neutral with water to obtain alcoholic gradation? In doing so, we keep out the by -products of fermentation. Unfortunately I will have to make the carbonation in the bottle because I am not equipped with the CO2, I don't know if others have refermented setzer ...
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Re: Hard Seltzer

Post by NormandieStill »

Demy wrote: Sat Jul 23, 2022 7:50 am Unfortunately I will have to make the carbonation in the bottle because I am not equipped with the CO2, I don't know if others have refermented setzer ...
My guess (no personal experience here) is that you'll want to watch the abv of your seltzer and use a champagne yeast. And maybe watch your dosing rates (yeast and sugar).

Just thinking out loud. Do you think that you could do a ferment in another container and just pipe the CO2 into your seltzer? I don't know if you can get enough pressure this way, but then again, bottle bombs are a thing so I suppose the yeast are able to build up a fair amount of pressure. That way the fermentation and the nasty by-products are all happening in another container... could even just be a ferment you were making anyway.
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Re: Hard Seltzer

Post by Demy »

Yes, I used yeast for sparkling wine, I do not think that the small fermentation gives problems of flavor but we will see ... experiment!
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Re: Hard Seltzer

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Demy wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 10:57 pm For a long time I have heard of "hard seltzer" especially in homebrewing places. I've never done one but I like to explore my surroundings. As far as I know, it is fermented sugar then flavored and carbonated, similar to a beer. I was wondering, wouldn't it be better to combine our neutral with water and flavorings instead of using the sugar wash as it comes out of the fermenter? It would be cleaner, without fermentation off-flovor. I don't know much, I'm interested in your experience, thank you.
There's a recipe on the internet for skitter pee.
It's basically lemon aid with a pinch of boiled yeast for nutrients and enough sugar to make 5% abv.
Even when naturally carbonated it still doesn't taste that good. I call it jail house Champaine. :lol:
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Re: Hard Seltzer

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shadylane wrote: Sun Jul 24, 2022 12:54 am
Demy wrote: Wed Jul 20, 2022 10:57 pm For a long time I have heard of "hard seltzer" especially in homebrewing places. I've never done one but I like to explore my surroundings. As far as I know, it is fermented sugar then flavored and carbonated, similar to a beer. I was wondering, wouldn't it be better to combine our neutral with water and flavorings instead of using the sugar wash as it comes out of the fermenter? It would be cleaner, without fermentation off-flovor. I don't know much, I'm interested in your experience, thank you.
There's a recipe on the internet for skitter pee.
It's basically lemon aid with a pinch of boiled yeast for nutrients and enough sugar to make 5% abv.
Even when naturally carbonated it still doesn't taste that good. I call it jail house Champaine. :lol:
:x :lol:
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Re: Hard Seltzer

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Beginning of the experiment, filtered peach juice and citrus essence (distilled from my micro-bain-marie, recent post), a few bottles and some notes.
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Re: Hard Seltzer

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Imo make vodka then mix to make your seltzer. Will be a cleaner product than traditional seltzer
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Re: Hard Seltzer

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bitter wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 2:56 pm Imo make vodka then mix to make your seltzer. Will be a cleaner product than traditional seltzer
That's how it was done. I only added peach / citrus juice (real filtered juice) and some bottled fermentation sugar (carbonation)
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Re: Hard Seltzer

Post by Chauncey »

16589264560986796037764130565201.jpg
They definitely make it from purchased spirits(white claw and high noon are vodka iirc, the truly is a cane based spirit) mixed with club soda/seltzer and flavoring. so fermenting it all together seems inauthentic in terms of hard seltzer.

I think it's a great idea but I'd just make some vodka and flavored carbonated water and get a jigger and some cool glasses and mix on fly.

Great idea over all

Seltzer is extremely popular. I can clear this shelf twice a shift easily. What isn't packed in the pic is what I've sold in the last few hours on graveyard while it's dead af.
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Re: Hard Seltzer

Post by zach »

I made a seltzer for a party that ended up being pretty popular.

Very simple recipe for 7.5% seltzer. Total costs for $26 or $0.50 per 12 oz serving.

3.5 liters vodka @ 40 proof
32 oz lime juice
top off with 4 gallons of good quality water

I made it in a 5 gallon corny keg and pressurized to 40 psig to carbonate for 3 days in the keg fridge. Then lowered the pressure to 15 psig to serve.
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Re: Hard Seltzer

Post by Salt Must Flow »

zach wrote: Fri Nov 04, 2022 9:14 am I made a seltzer for a party that ended up being pretty popular.

Very simple recipe for 7.5% seltzer. Total costs for $26 or $0.50 per 12 oz serving.

3.5 liters vodka @ 40 proof
32 oz lime juice
top off with 4 gallons of good quality water

I made it in a 5 gallon corny keg and pressurized to 40 psig to carbonate for 3 days in the keg fridge. Then lowered the pressure to 15 psig to serve.
I used to use Lemon and/or Lime juice and it started to tear up my stomach. I switched to Lemon and Key Lime natural oils instead. Not only did it not hurt my stomach, it tastes better too.
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Re: Hard Seltzer

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should we expect zima will be making a comeback soon ?
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Re: Hard Seltzer

Post by contrahead »

Responding to the OP (3 months ago): “ As far as I know, it is fermented sugar then flavored and carbonated, similar to a beer. I was wondering, wouldn't it be better to combine our neutral with water and flavorings instead of using the sugar wash as it comes out of the fermenter” ?

I doubt that the first sentence is a clear picture of the process. You seem you be describing secondary fermentation; as takes place in champagne or old fashioned bottled beers. Your suggestion in the second sentence is closer to the mark. Three separate items (neutral spirit, sparkling water and flavoring) are combined to make a hard seltzer.

Playing with secondary fermentation seems like it would be fun, if you don't mind exploding a few bottles as you experiment. That's why champagne bottles are extra thick and strong. Secondary fermentation creates CO2 and pressure inside the bottle. Before someone like Adolphus Busch came along with a bottling alternative 160 years ago, bottled beers too – were primed with a little additional dextrose sugar before the bottle was capped. Only the alcohol tolerance of the yeast would prevent fortified “hard seltzer” in a bottle from building up pressure too.

Which makes one wonder how modern beers and sodas are carbonated or charged before they are canned or bottled. Presumably the answer is simple. First, carbon dioxide is dissolved into or taken up by water. (Such a combination is called “carbonic acid” / CO2 + H2O ⇌ H2CO3). By being chilled to a low temperature the beverage can be overcharged a little with CO2, just before it is put into the container. After the container is sealed, a little pressure is built up, but most of the gas still remains in a dissolved state. If commercial beers were only injected with pressurized CO2 immediately before sealing the can, keg or bottle, what is to prevent the pressurized gas from escaping?

Some factoids:
The source of the carbon dioxide in a given soft drink might come from a brewery that sells the gas as a byproduct or could be captured and purified waste gas from factories or power plants that are required to trap the greenhouse gas. Most colas (like Coke) have food grade phosphoric acid added as well to add “bite” to the taste (but colas are already mildly acidic because of the carbonic acid formed).

In an attempt to duplicate ‘natural sparkling water’ in 1770, a chemist created the first “seltzer water” by subjecting chalk to sulfuric acid. The resulting carbon dioxide gas was made to bubble up through fresh water, allowing the gas to be absorbed into solution.

Sherbert and sherbet can either be synonymous or mean different items. Both spellings are correct. The words originally referred to a cold drink made with sweetened and diluted fruit juice. At the beginning of the 19th century and before carbonated soft drinks became so predominant, sherbert powders were very popular. Especially in Europe. Sugar, flavoring, sodium bicarbonate and cream of tartar (an acid) were twisted up in a small paper package. One of these packages could be opened and poured into a glass of cool water; which created a refreshing, effervescent drink.
Brausepulver.jpg
<source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherbet_%28powder%29>

Perrier® carbonated mineral water was born in the south of France 150 years ago. But Perrier is far from being the original carbonated water. Although the spring from which Perrier water is sourced is naturally carbonated, the water and natural carbon dioxide gas are obtained independently. In 1990, Perrier removed the "naturally sparkling" claim from its bottles under pressure from the United States Food and Drug Administration.

Spa is a brand of mineral water from Spa, Belgium; bottled since the end of the 16th century
Ramlösa (Swedish) mineral water dates back to the year 1707.
Evian (French) bottled and sold since 1789. Made a public company in 1859.
Apollinaris is a German naturally sparkling mineral water; bottled since the discovery of the spring in 1852.
Gerolsteiner Brunnen; another German mineral water, originating from 1888.
Farris is a brand of mineral water produced in Larvik, Norway. Since 1875.
Acqua Panna is an Italian brand of bottled water / Tuscany / 1880.
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Re: Hard Seltzer

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Contra - many if not most home brewers still carbonate their beer by adding some priming sugar, capping the bottle and letting it sit for a couple of weeks. The key is to not over prime, follow the calculators, and makes sure the sugar is well mixed into the bottling container before bottling. Following those keys and I have not had a bottle bomb in the last 9 years. Home brewers with a kegging system and most commercial brewers put their beer in a pressurized CO2 environment so the C02 goes into the solution in the beer. It can be bottled or canned under pressure so the CO2 remains in solution. Home brew stores sell special bottling wands to help home brewers bottle beer from a keg without losing much CO2. For commercial beers that are bottle primed rather than forced, look on the bottle for "bottle conditioned". I believe Sierra Nevada still puts out a few.

Not sure of all hard seltzers, but the craft brewers I have talked to that make a few are fermenting a sugar wash, adding flavor at some point, depends on the brewer and then carbonating with forced CO2 as above.
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Re: Hard Seltzer

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subbrew wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 11:14 am Following those keys and I have not had a bottle bomb in the last 9 years.
I remember a few bottles from a case of homebrew exploding one night...38 years ago during University. I had just primed and bottled that morning. I thought someone was shooting out the windows in my apartment when I awoke.

I did not want to open the box and have a bottle explode in my face. So, the next day we took the case to the firing range and shot open the bottles.

The following summer someone from a soft drink company gave me a corny keg. I have not made a batch of beer in bottles since.
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Re: Hard Seltzer

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I still make "old" style beer by adding bottled sugar, I've never had explosions, if you calculate the sugar you have no problem. I don't use CO2 cylinders so I was wondering if anyone used the old fashioned method. I have also made fizzy fruit juice with this method but you have to pasteurize the bottles at some point.
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Re: Hard Seltzer

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My wife's brother makes beer which is enjoyed by most of the family.
And alcoholic ginger beer mainly for me, I don't drink beer.
Cider I like...

And he uses the same method as you, adding a little sugar before capping the bottles.
Doesn't seem to have had any problems with exploding bottles.

He makes the beer using a 'kit', a set of ingredients from the home brew shop.
I thought I was saving money, having his beer in the fridge for family gatherings.
Until my wife said she had paid a hundred dollars into his home brew shop account!

But that's fine, the drinks are good and overall the family save a lot of money.

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Re: Hard Seltzer

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The Baker wrote: Mon Nov 07, 2022 3:43 pm My wife's brother makes beer which is enjoyed by most of the family.
And alcoholic ginger beer mainly for me, I don't drink beer.
Cider I like...

And he uses the same method as you, adding a little sugar before capping the bottles.
Doesn't seem to have had any problems with exploding bottles.

He makes the beer using a 'kit', a set of ingredients from the home brew shop.
I thought I was saving money, having his beer in the fridge for family gatherings.
Until my wife said she had paid a hundred dollars into his home brew shop account!

But that's fine, the drinks are good and overall the family save a lot of money.

Geoff
There are calculators to determine how much sugar to add to the volumes of co2 you want to obtain. I have never had explosions .. if you do not exceed the limits of sparkling there are no problems. I also make sparkling wine with the traditional method ... in that case the initial pressure is much higher ... Here is my video on yeast removal
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Re: Hard Seltzer

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I used to riddle and disgorge quite a bit of sparkling alcoholic ginger beer, cider and wine, but our drinking habits have changed and I haven't done it for many years. I still have the tools I need to do it.
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Re: Hard Seltzer

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

To add to the info in this thread:

One of my good friends owns and operates a successful brewery in my area. They’ve actually medaled and won gold several times in the world beer cup. I had a conversation with him about making hard seltzer and he had some enlightening info to share. They actually shy away from it, despite it being so popular with consumers right now.

He asked if I’ve ever had a “good” product from some of the local brewery’s that have attempted making it. I’ve never had one that actually tasted on par with the macro stuff like white claw or truly, they always have a distinctive off flavor. This response is exactly why he doesn’t make it.

Regulators require that these products are fermented like beer to legally sell them. With fermentation you get all the bi-products, esters, heads/tails, etc. He delved deeply into trying to understand how to make hard seltzers that taste very clean prior to flavoring and found some interesting info:

The macro seltzer makers HEAVILY filter their fully fermented “sugar beer” prior to flavoring it. They run it through a series of tanks with resin beads “think water softener tanks” that filter out a bunch of the off flavors and do a final carbon filtration. Their goal is to make their product as close to a distilled, flavorless beverage as possible, prior to adding the flavor to it. Most micro breweries lack the space or investment to do this, which is why it’s not more common. The customers expect a white claw, buy the drink at the taproom, think it’s gross and won’t buy it again.

He mentioned if they could simply add neutral spirit to water/flavoring and carbonate it, everyone would do it that way. So for us making it for ourselves, it’s the superior method for a tasty final product. Lucky for our community, we probably have a lot of neutral on hand!
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Re: Hard Seltzer

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BrewinBrian44 wrote: Tue Nov 08, 2022 6:54 am

He mentioned if they could simply add neutral spirit to water/flavoring and carbonate it, everyone would do it that way. So for us making it for ourselves, it’s the superior method for a tasty final product. Lucky for our community, we probably have a lot of neutral on hand!
That's right, that's just what I thought..I've seen a lot of videos and articles fermenting sugar because they try to mimic a brewery and thought it's illogical for us ... a sugar wash doesn't taste great.
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Re: Hard Seltzer

Post by Bushman »

Never been a fan of hard seltzer but my son buys it all the time. What he buys is not high on abv thus for me it tastes like flavored water.
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Re: Hard Seltzer

Post by rubberduck71 »

Anytime I tried to ferment a seltzer, it turned out sulphury & bade tasting no matter how many tricks I tried.

I'll stick to adding neutral to spring water, then back sweetening & Olive Nation extract to taste. Cherry/Lime on draft right now in the garage fridge.
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