Copper Sizing for "Worm" Condenser

[CornMealKid]

Okay, I got me a propane burner that puts out 100K BTU.

Boiler size is big. Then we got a three inch ferrule welded on, then a 3 to 2" adapter/ferrule thing. Goes to a real short 2" "column" if you could call it that.

Wanna do a worm, I'm no good with this reflux or shotgun stuff. Got a worm currently, but seems to run slow... 55 Gallon plastic drum with the top cut off, then used a bunch of 3/4" copper pipe and 90's to make a zig-zag slope down to my collection vessel. Always had trouble doing a proper slope with the tubing so I switched to this.

What is my ideal size of copper along this? Should say, for safety, everything near the boiler (and burner) is soldered... We got 2" "column", meets 2" to 3/4" reducer, then a little bit of 3/4" upward, then a 3/4" 90, then 3/4" pipe about 6' over, all that soldered solid, then connects to condenser/worm, 3/4" with flour putty.

I feel like I could do better on the pipe sizes to get the flow rate up. Maximum this burner is capable of is 120K BTU.

[Alco_Selfie]

What kind of still are you planning to make? Pot Still, Collum VM, CCVM, LM (bokakob) or just CM?

Alco


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[skow69]

How much output are you getting now?

[CornMealKid]

Making a simple pot still, takes like six hours to distill from a 8 Gallon milk can, seems way too long to me, that's when the heat is high, stripping run, 1500W hotplate. I figure if I increase the boiler size, that's likely to get even longer of a run time... And because I'll have to use gas with a larger boiler, it'll get expensive if it's a twelve or fifteen hour ordeal.

[rubber duck]

Your using a 1500w hot plate that cycling on and off, the problem isn't the still the problem is the oporate.

If you want to build a bigger still that's fine and when I say bigger less then 30 gallons. When you say big that's pretty vague, but it sounds like 60 gallons or bigger so I don't think anyone here is going to help you with sizing a condenser for that.

Now assuming I'm wrong, a 1/2 in worm is fine for a 15 gallon still, 3/4 for a 30 gallon, but for a 30 gallon a shotgun would be cheeper.

[still_stirrin]

...seems way too long to me...when the heat is high...1500W hotplate...if I increase the boiler size...likely to get even longer...

The problem isn't your product condenser or even your boiler. A 1500W hotplate isn't enough for your 8 gallon boiler. And I bet you haven't modified the temperature control circuit yet either. Hotplates, like electric stoves control temperature by cycling on and off. They have a thermostatic switch in the controls. Those have to eliminated in favor of a power regulating circuit.

A 1500W heat source would be marginal for a 4 to 5 gallon pot or a 1-1/2" to 2" column. If you go to the parent site and read up about heat input, you can learn all about what I'm saying.

For your 8 gallon milk can, ideally you'd have 3000W to 4500W in an internal element. Then, your worm might be too small for the heat input. But your stripping runs would be done in a couple of hours max.
ss

edit-posted same time as RD.

[skow69]

Okay, I got me a propane burner that puts out 100K BTU.
Boiler size is big.

Then...

takes like six hours to distill from a 8 Gallon milk can, ...
1500W hotplate.

?

[skow69]

If you are asking about a proposed new still, and worried about how long it will take, you won't know until you try it. There is nothing wrong with a 3/4" worm, and you can't compare a 120K BTU burner to a 1500 watt hotplate. That's like a Ferrari and a Yugo. As has been said, your current still is way underpowered.

[muscashine]

For your 8 gallon milk can, ideally you'd have 3000W to 4500W in an internal element. Then, your worm might be too small for the heat input. But your stripping runs would be done in a couple of hours max.
ss

edit-posted same time as RD.

I concur! I can strip 8 gallons in a couple of hours with my milk can and 4500 watts. Running it on full power is even too much, once it comes up to boiling temperature. I cut back to 3/4 or even half power. Does your milk can have a socket for an element? I know people have been using open flames on stills since still were invented, but to me its just so unacceptably dangerous. What we're doing is dangerous enough without adding "potentially exploding and burning to death in a ball of fire" to the mix

[CornMealKid]

Okay I see what you guys mean about the $#!++y 1500W hotplate... Just did Watts to BTU conversion, 1500W is 6K BTU... Quite a joke indeed.

I know at one time, the no-no boiler size here was 25G, now seems to be 30G. Let me start by saying good Lord, I would NEVVVER exceed 30G... But if one were to, theoretically speaking, I get the sense from the replies here that 3/4" and 2" copper is not the problem, it's the heat source.

In other words, the diameter is not the limiting factor, rather the boiler charge. I guess my ultimate goal in life is to become a major distillery, a long shot perhaps... But in the mean time, I wanna soak up what knowledge I can about this. At some point I'll be required to go bigger and bigger, until hopefully, my works are sold at a retailer near you. No college courses on this stuff unfortunately, so despite all the books and videos I've bought, this forum STILL is, hands down, my numero uno source of A+ info.

I found out recently that there's only about five big whiskey distilleries in the USA, that a lot of stuff is "bottled" by the bull$#!+ers, but distilled by those big five or so... Which I think is sort of cheating when you see the glowing accolades about so-and-so who started back in 1790 on the side of a bottle. I wanna be one of the guys who does it from start to finish one day while making an honest buck. Not really relevant to my copper/heat questions, but thought I'd share just the same.

[muscashine]

Okay I see what you guys mean about the $#!++y 1500W hotplate... Just did Watts to BTU conversion, 1500W is 6K BTU... Quite a joke indeed.

I know at one time, the no-no boiler size here was 25G, now seems to be 30G. Let me start by saying good Lord, I would NEVVVER exceed 30G... But if one were to, theoretically speaking, I get the sense from the replies here that 3/4" and 2" copper is not the problem, it's the heat source.

In other words, the diameter is not the limiting factor, rather the boiler charge. I guess my ultimate goal in life is to become a major distillery, a long shot perhaps... But in the mean time, I wanna soak up what knowledge I can about this. At some point I'll be required to go bigger and bigger, until hopefully, my works are sold at a retailer near you. No college courses on this stuff unfortunately, so despite all the books and videos I've bought, this forum STILL is, hands down, my numero uno source of A+ info.

I found out recently that there's only about five big whiskey distilleries in the USA, that a lot of stuff is "bottled" by the bull$#!+ers, but distilled by those big five or so... Which I think is sort of cheating when you see the glowing accolades about so-and-so who started back in 1790 on the side of a bottle. I wanna be one of the guys who does it from start to finish one day while making an honest buck. Not really relevant to my copper/heat questions, but thought I'd share just the same.

You don't have to go huge to sell stuff. Eventually if you want to distribute it, you'll probably need to go big, but a lot of small craft distilleries are popping up. There's a guy in the upstate of SC running a store with two 25 gallon stills on a shelf behind a window so you can watch the liquor come out. He's got a lot of different products in the store. I think the nice thing about being a small operation is you can try new things on a small batch and say "you know what, that sucked, let's not do that again".

[Runt]

Okay I see what you guys mean about the $#!++y 1500W hotplate... Just did Watts to BTU conversion, 1500W is 6K BTU... Quite a joke indeed.

I know at one time, the no-no boiler size here was 25G, now seems to be 30G. Let me start by saying good Lord, I would NEVVVER exceed 30G... But if one were to, theoretically speaking, I get the sense from the replies here that 3/4" and 2" copper is not the problem, it's the heat source.

In other words, the diameter is not the limiting factor, rather the boiler charge. I guess my ultimate goal in life is to become a major distillery, a long shot perhaps... But in the mean time, I wanna soak up what knowledge I can about this. At some point I'll be required to go bigger and bigger, until hopefully, my works are sold at a retailer near you. No college courses on this stuff unfortunately, so despite all the books and videos I've bought, this forum STILL is, hands down, my numero uno source of A+ info.

I found out recently that there's only about five big whiskey distilleries in the USA, that a lot of stuff is "bottled" by the bull$#!+ers, but distilled by those big five or so... Which I think is sort of cheating when you see the glowing accolades about so-and-so who started back in 1790 on the side of a bottle. I wanna be one of the guys who does it from start to finish one day while making an honest buck. Not really relevant to my copper/heat questions, but thought I'd share just the same.

You don't have to go huge to sell stuff. Eventually if you want to distribute it, you'll probably need to go big, but a lot of small craft distilleries are popping up. There's a guy in the upstate of SC running a store with two 25 gallon stills on a shelf behind a window so you can watch the liquor come out. He's got a lot of different products in the store. I think the nice thing about being a small operation is you can try new things on a small batch and say "you know what, that sucked, let's not do that again".

Smaller batch's make it more sought after locally.

[shadylane]

Okay, I got me a propane burner that puts out 100K BTU.
Boiler size is big.

Then...

takes like six hours to distill from a 8 Gallon milk can, ...
1500W hotplate.

?

I might be wrong, but he currently has a 8 gallon pot setting on a hot plate.
And he's thinking about making a 30G pot with a propane burner.

[squigglefunk]

I know people have been using open flames on stills since still were invented, but to me its just so unacceptably dangerous.

seems that taking a bite from 220 volts could be dangerous too, eh