"True" Blackberry Brandy

[GPBrewer]

Seen a bunch of recipes for blackberry "flavored" brandies, or blackberry sugarheads, etc etc.

But I haven't seen any recipes where the blackberry provides the WHOLE sugar load.

So I decided to jump in. I bought a 44lb bag of blackberry puree from the aseptic puree people, https://asepticfruitpurees.com/collecti ... -puree-bag , threw some pectinase and a pouch of lalvin 1116 in a carboy. It's fermenting away as we speak, and I'll probably run it though the still in a few weeks, I know low and slow is absolutely the name of the game when it comes to fermenting fruits, so I want to give it the best chance I can.

I also have a couple pints of the puree left over, so I may end up flavoring the end result if needed, but I'm hoping not to.


(I also have a 44lb bag of the peach puree too, but I think I'll do something a bit different with that.)

EDIT: I'm seeing now that I'm really looking at a very weak wash here, only around 4-5% since blackberries have so little sugar. This may be a completely failed experiment. I wonder if it would be worth adding in a portion of low wines from a corn mash or even doing a run of low wines with apple to boost the abv.

EDIT 2: Yeah, i did my math wrong, but I found some 65 brix blackberry concentrate, 1 quart of that should raise the potential alcohol to about 10%... But damn it's expensive. https://colomafrozen.com/products

So: Question to anyone reading this: do you think I will get a better result from A) turning this into a sugarhead, B) Mixing in a gallon or so of low wines from a sweetfeed mash, or C) adding enough blackberry concentrate to raise the SG?

[NZChris]

When you boost the abv, the amount of flavor from the fruit gets shared over the increased amount of alcohol. Whether or not this is desirable is for you to decide. If the flavor is too intense for you, you can add neutral later.

A common newbie mistake is doing a single distillation.

[jonnys_spirit]

Fresh blackberries with skins would be best IMO... I vote for C adding the concentrate to boost the wine ABV to keep it pure.

Cheers!
-j

[GPBrewer]

@NZChris : Yes, but at $150 for just the puree, I'd prefer not to do a large enough batch to justify double distilling in a 5 gallon still.

(This does explain why our favorite apple brandy (Fair Game) has gone from $30 a bottle or so to over $60... There's a LOT of apples involved.)

@jonnys_spirit : I think you're right. That is the best option. But DAMN. That's another $100.


I'm going to run a few cheap washes before I get into it, but the more I think about it, the more "Option C" does appeal to me. For sure for the peach brandy, since that quart of the concentrate is only $20, that's a no brainer.

[jonnys_spirit]

A 1.5 spirit run may be helpful to better balance volume and flavor? Strip somewhere between one or two charges then top up your spirit run with fresh ferment and collect in numbered jars.. I have a smaller still for these kind of batched where I can do a single strip in the larger still that provides enough low wines for two to three runs through the small still maybe with some fresh wine top up as well.

Cheers!
-jonny

[squigglefunk]

i can't help but think blackberry "brandy" would be best made with an infusion instead of fermenting blackberries?

[jonnys_spirit]

i can't help but think blackberry "brandy" would be best made with an infusion instead of fermenting blackberries?

+1
That's probably a better approach for a geist style brandy which is very good!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himbeergeist

Cheers!
-j

[GPBrewer]

Yeah, the website with the concentrates has some Peach Concentrate for pretty reasonable (3 gallons at 70 brix for $150ish), so I may jump into that.

I think I'll do this blackberry as a sugar head. If I add 6.5 pounds of sugar, I should get around 9% ABV in the wash. It'll be interesting trying to get the sugar to dissolve into the puree... I may rack off a few quarts, boil the sugar into it, and then put it back in. Or just plop it in there and see what happens.

i can't help but think blackberry "brandy" would be best made with an infusion instead of fermenting blackberries?

Right, but then it wouldn't be a blackberry brandy, but a blackberry flavored something else, depending on the base spirit.

(Plus... too late. The blackberries have been happily fermenting for a week or so)

[NZChris]

@NZChris : Yes, but at $150 for just the puree, I'd prefer not to do a large enough batch to justify double distilling in a 5 gallon still.

Double distilling isn't about quantity, it's about the quality. Anyone telling you that they make a great drop doing a slow single, could be making better product for themselves if they stopped taking their own advice and double distilled.

[GPBrewer]

@NZChris : Yes, but at $150 for just the puree, I'd prefer not to do a large enough batch to justify double distilling in a 5 gallon still.

Double distilling isn't about quantity, it's about the quality. Anyone telling you that they make a great drop doing a slow single, could be making better product for themselves if they stopped taking their own advice and double distilled.

Sounds like I'll double distill it then, I was tempted to do that anyway, but as I said, i didn't want to do a 15+ gallon batch of the wash to justify it. I guess to make up volume I may end up mixing it with low wines from the sweet feed wash I've got going. And save the "brandy" part for the peach. I can easily do a 15 gallon batch of that.

Unless running a t500 boiler with only a gallon or so of low wines is a good idea? Seems kinda shady to me. I could water them down back to 10% or so... I may do that instead of the sweet feed wash.

[rubberduck71]

I've yet to taste a palatable product that was just 1x distilled.

I've not done a brandy in my short time in this hobby, but here are some ideas:

+1 to the 1.5 technique mentioned by jonnys_spirit above, but you said it's all in the fermenter already, so too late there. Frozen blackberries from a grocery local store or restaurant supply to make another small mash batch???
If you go sugarhead to stretch out the volume, maybe used turbinado or demerera (i.e. non processed "raw" sugar?)
Add some neutral (and maybe some water) to the low wines to increase the spirit charge volume???
Save the feints for your next batch!

[NZChris]

I guess to make up volume I may end up mixing it with low wines from the sweet feed wash I've got going.

When you have spent a lot on the blackberries, polluting it with sweet feed low wines sounds like a really bad idea. Fruit and sweet feed require different cuts to get the best out of both. I'd guess that you would have to cut out quite a bit of blackberry flavor to avoid unwanted flavors from the sweet feed.

AFAIK, the T500 has the element under the base, so starting volume shouldn't be a problem. Using the appropriate amount of reflux, you should be able to do a good job of the blackberries in one distillation.

To scavenge more alcohol and flavor from a desirable fruit, I do a sugar head using the pressings and backset, then put the heads and tails into the boiler with the wash for the run.

[GPBrewer]

I guess to make up volume I may end up mixing it with low wines from the sweet feed wash I've got going.

When you have spent a lot on the blackberries, polluting it with sweet feed low wines sounds like a really bad idea. Fruit and sweet feed require different cuts to get the best out of both. I'd guess that you would have to cut out quite a bit of blackberry flavor to avoid unwanted flavors from the sweet feed.

AFAIK, the T500 has the element under the base, so starting volume shouldn't be a problem. Using the appropriate amount of reflux, you should be able to do a good job of the blackberries in one distillation.

To scavenge more alcohol and flavor from a desirable fruit, I do a sugar head using the pressings and backset, then put the heads and tails into the boiler with the wash for the run.

Appreciate all this input! Thanks, I have the alembic version of the T500, so reflux isn't an issue. But at 10% and 6 gallons of wash, (I added about a gallon worth of sugar volume today), I should get plenty on the first run to dilute it back to 2 or 3 gallons worth for the spirit run. Now I'm thinking I'll do the first run with 5 gallons of the wash, then throw in the leftover gallon or so in with the low wines and see what happens.

[NZChris]

Don't make the mistake of shutting down the strips with a lot of flavor still in the boiler. Strip until you have low wines around 24-30%, or use your calculator to work out how low to go for the wash addition you intend to add.

'Dilute' is a swear word in my shed when there is fruit involved. Water is your friend when making neutral, but your enemy for capturing flavor.

[squigglefunk]

Right, but then it wouldn't be a blackberry brandy, but a blackberry flavored something else, depending on the base spirit.

(Plus... too late. The blackberries have been happily fermenting for a week or so)

I gotcha... understandable wanting to capture the "flavor"

again, I am not sure how brix measurements work but I think there is really not much sugar in blackberries so if someone were to use blackberries in a ferment there might be a little plain ole sugar added to bump up the alcohol. Pretty sure its common practice for many fruit wines?

I think that nearly every "blackberry brandy" out there uses some other brandy (grape from what I see) infused with blackberries and sweetened... it's blackberries in brandy

So yes, as far as I know nearly every "blackberry brandy" out there is a flavored something else

but I do hope you get something good and drinkable from your mash and keep us updated!

[squigglefunk]

Don't make the mistake of shutting down the strips with a lot of flavor still in the boiler. Strip until you have low wines around 24-30%, or use your calculator to work out how low to go for the wash addition you intend to add.

'Dilute' is a swear word in my shed when there is fruit involved. Water is your friend when making neutral, but your enemy for capturing flavor.

+1!

there is a lot of good flavor in fruit tails (and heads) from my limited experience

[jonnys_spirit]

Straight blackberry wine is also pretty acidic so might need to watch pH for the yeasties. Most blackberry wines are back sweetened as a result. I think you could still call it a blackberry brandy if you made grape brandy and macerated/infused the blackberries. I might try to do some of that too because I'm quite partial to the Schladerer

Cheers!
-j

[GPBrewer]

Straight blackberry wine is also pretty acidic so might need to watch pH for the yeasties. Most blackberry wines are back sweetened as a result. I think you could still call it a blackberry brandy if you made grape brandy and macerated/infused the blackberries. I might try to do some of that too because I'm quite partial to the Schladerer

Cheers!
-j

I actually tasted the wash, and it was pretty dang good, if very weak. It may find it's way into bottles instead of the still, depending on how the sugar addition goes...

Or the next time I will just do a cider with the puree instead, I bet 70/30 apple to blackberry would be pretty damn great.

Right, but then it wouldn't be a blackberry brandy, but a blackberry flavored something else, depending on the base spirit.

(Plus... too late. The blackberries have been happily fermenting for a week or so)

I gotcha... understandable wanting to capture the "flavor"

again, I am not sure how brix measurements work but I think there is really not much sugar in blackberries so if someone were to use blackberries in a ferment there might be a little plain ole sugar added to bump up the alcohol. Pretty sure its common practice for many fruit wines?

I think that nearly every "blackberry brandy" out there uses some other brandy (grape from what I see) infused with blackberries and sweetened... it's blackberries in brandy

So yes, as far as I know nearly every "blackberry brandy" out there is a flavored something else

but I do hope you get something good and drinkable from your mash and keep us updated!

Brix is roughly double the potential alcohol. So my blackberry puree is about 8 Brix, so it only has a 4% potential alcohol (ish). I added sugar to bring it to around 20 brix.

Don't make the mistake of shutting down the strips with a lot of flavor still in the boiler. Strip until you have low wines around 24-30%, or use your calculator to work out how low to go for the wash addition you intend to add.

'Dilute' is a swear word in my shed when there is fruit involved. Water is your friend when making neutral, but your enemy for capturing flavor.

I thought stripping runs should take the tails all the way down to 10% or so. Any reason not to do that? The plan is to get the gallon or so of low wines off the 5 gallons of blackberry wine, then mix in the leftover gallon of wine and run a spirit run from that mixture. So the "dilution" will be adding flavor but reducing alcohol.

[Dougmatt]

I believe nzchris is talking about total low wine abv and you are talking about abv off the spout.

[GPBrewer]

I believe nzchris is talking about total low wine abv and you are talking about abv off the spout.

Oh, duh, carry on.

[squigglefunk]

I added sugar to bring it to around 20 brix.

oh, I see, I missed that part in your original post... yes adding sugar is a good idea... sure it might not be "true" blackberry brandy any more but it will make it more worth your while. Let us know how the flavor turns out.

[NZChris]

I quite often make sparkling hard cider using apple juice with added blackcurrant concentrate. Trying to do that with puree wouldn't be as easy. To clear puree, I would freeze the puree, then thaw a third of it through a coffee filter. viewtopic.php?t=87026

[GPBrewer]

Correct, I'll use the clarified concentrates from the website above: https://colomafrozen.com/industrial-products

Next time, with the knowledge I've learned here, I'll be doing a 60L peach brandy wash using the 21L of peach puree (18 Brix) from AsepticPurees.com and then enough of the peach concentrate from Coloma (70 Brix) to make up a 20ish brix wash for the rest of it.

Should end up being about $175 for a 15 gallon batch vs over $500 for the blackberry version at that size.

[NZChris]

Most of the costs of my blackberry concoctions have been for petrol and accommodation. We usually take jars of high proof neutral with us and go hunting for wild berries to pick straight into the jars.

[stillanoob]

Most of the costs of my blackberry concoctions have been for petrol and accommodation. We usually take jars of high proof neutral with us and go hunting for wild berries to pick straight into the jars.

While I love a good infusion too, the product of just distilled fruit can be amazing. If you can find one, get a bottle of St George's raspberry brandy. I have done raspberry infusions as I grow about 50 pounds of raspberries a year but the brandy is simply mind boggling and I would take it over an infusion every time. Sadly, they say there is 40 pounds of berries in every bottle so I'll never make any.

[NormandieStill]

I'm working on a sloe brandy at the minute. I've got 21kg of sloes fermenting with a projected yield (from the very old recipe I found) of about 1L of finished product. The scariest thing with this level of "investment" is nailing the cuts. It'd be pretty rubbish to put the time / money into a small yield run and then bugger up the cuts.

[NZChris]

Most of the costs of my blackberry concoctions have been for petrol and accommodation. We usually take jars of high proof neutral with us and go hunting for wild berries to pick straight into the jars.

While I love a good infusion too, the product of just distilled fruit can be amazing. If you can find one, get a bottle of St George's raspberry brandy. I have done raspberry infusions as I grow about 50 pounds of raspberries a year but the brandy is simply mind boggling and I would take it over an infusion every time. Sadly, they say there is 40 pounds of berries in every bottle so I'll never make any.

I don't ferment raspberries, I put them in the still with neutral and run it. Simple, quick, tasty.

[BrewinBrian44]

Most of the costs of my blackberry concoctions have been for petrol and accommodation. We usually take jars of high proof neutral with us and go hunting for wild berries to pick straight into the jars.

While I love a good infusion too, the product of just distilled fruit can be amazing. If you can find one, get a bottle of St George's raspberry brandy. I have done raspberry infusions as I grow about 50 pounds of raspberries a year but the brandy is simply mind boggling and I would take it over an infusion every time. Sadly, they say there is 40 pounds of berries in every bottle so I'll never make any.

I don't ferment raspberries, I put them in the still with neutral and run it. Simple, quick, tasty.

I should try this with some of my Shady’s neutral. My grandpa used to make blackberry cordial with everclear and I definitely partook before I came of age ha! Never got caught!

I have fond memories of the stuff. Liquid blackberry at high proof. I wouldn’t be surprised if he made it like the panty dropper recipes. Seems like more of a direct, cost effective way to get the blackberry flavor one seeks. Sure, it’s less pure than a “true” brandy, but I bet most normal folks would like it more. He had tons of wild blackberries growing all around his property.

The infusion stuff is always a real crowd pleaser.

[The Baker]

I don't ferment raspberries, I put them in the still with neutral and run it. Simple, quick, tasty.

Hi, Chris,

Would strawberries work about the same?

Thanks,

Geoff

[NZChris]

I don't ferment raspberries, I put them in the still with neutral and run it. Simple, quick, tasty.

Hi, Chris,

Would strawberries work about the same?

Thanks,

Geoff

I've done it with a variety of fruits and nuts, It works well. Strawberries don't have a huge amount of flavor, so put plenty in the pot compared to the amount of alcohol you use.
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