worth doing?

[Stonecutter]

They run alcohol because thats the abundant and cheap fuel, not because its a good choice or is good for the machines.

I definitely agree with that. Oh, and the BRAZILIAN joke was great

[Dee Envy]

They also manufacture e85 engines these days.

No. They make engines. Some have larger injectors and sensors to measure etoh fuel content to run on any mix from straight gasoline to e85.

[shadylane]

They run alcohol because thats the abundant and cheap fuel, not because its a good choice or is good for the machines.

I definitely agree with that. Oh, and the BRAZILIAN joke was great

Abundant and cheap fuel sounds good.
I've seen insides of an engine that runs on ethanol.
Looks similar to an engine run on propane and that's good.

https://extension.psu.edu/fuel-ethanol-hero-or-villain

[shadylane]

is making ethanol for fuel even worth doing? i wanted to start making it to offset the cost of petrol since its going to go way up in price again. but with the cost and time, does anyone actually do it and feel that its worth it?

Just my 2 cents worth, It's not worth it.
The only way it might be cost effective is if the distilling was incorporated into a small farm.
Green house heated from waste heat. Hogs that could be fatten, Pasture that needs fertilized.
Damn that's starting to sound like a full time job.

I'd rather make drinking alcohol as a hobby.

[drmiller100]

They run alcohol because thats the abundant and cheap fuel, not because its a good choice or is good for the machines.

I definitely agree with that. Oh, and the BRAZILIAN joke was great

Abundant and cheap fuel sounds good.
I've seen insides of an engine that runs on ethanol.
Looks similar to an engine run on propane and that's good.

https://extension.psu.edu/fuel-ethanol-hero-or-villain

Propane is a really hard on exhaust and intake valves. No cooling effect from vaporizing liquid.

If you look closely propane requires different valves and seats. Super high octane though.

[Stonecutter]

We’ll fuck we could just run methanol and save the ethanol for ourselves. That’s a win win right?

[Stonecutter]

Just bang out the methanol till the wheels fall off who cares; as long as you’ve got the ETOH to fall back on

[drmiller100]

We’ll fuck we could just run methanol and save the ethanol for ourselves. That’s a win win right?

Methanol eats aluminum.

Any other questions?

[shadylane]

Propane is a really hard on exhaust and intake valves. No cooling effect from vaporizing liquid.

If you look closely propane requires different valves and seats. Super high octane though.

Hardened valve seats have been used in everything for decades.
For many years the irrigation pumps around here used propane.
Mostly automotive engines were used. The slant 6 and 318 dodge were quite popular.
The motors would run the equivalent of 90mph for days on end.

[Stonecutter]

We’ll fuck we could just run methanol and save the ethanol for ourselves. That’s a win win right?

Methanol eats aluminum.

Any other questions?

Nope. I make sippin’ whiskey and sugar shine for cocktails. I figure if SHTF I’ll trade my hooch for whatever. Honestly there’s been so much doom and gloom lately that I’m pretty much over it all. I got no worries friend.

I’d rather have a full bottle than a full tank

[drmiller100]

Propane is a really hard on exhaust and intake valves. No cooling effect from vaporizing liquid.

If you look closely propane requires different valves and seats. Super high octane though.

Hardened valve seats have been used in everything for decades.
For many years the irrigation pumps around here used propane.
Mostly automotive engines were used. The slant 6 and 318 dodge were quite popular.
The motors would run the equivalent of 90mph for days on end.

There is hardened. Like for unleaded gas.
And there is hardened like in propane. Why do you keep arguing with me. You always are proven wrong


Stellite. Tool steel. Sodium filled.

https://www.enginebuildermag.com/2015/0 ... ne-builds/

If the engine was designated from factory to run propane almost always very special valves are specced.

Propane fork lifts are same.

I Ran a cylinder head shop for a while

[shadylane]

What's there to argue about,
I said "Hardened valve seats have been used in everything for decades"
Stellite is commonly used for hardened valse seats, especially in industrial or turbocharged engines.

[drmiller100]

What's there to argue about,
I said "Hardened valve seats have been used in everything for decades"
Stellite is commonly used for hardened valse seats, especially in industrial or turbocharged engines.

As the article notes stellite VALVES. Sometimes tool steel seats.

And the industrial engines you note are often propane.

Smiles

[football29]

propane.

eBay is FULL of these conversion kits to convert a common Honda gas generator (or any of the chinese clones) into dual fuel that runs on gas or propane, around 100-200 bucks. dont think that includes any modification to valves. never tried one myself tho.

Mostly driven by cafe standards. For a while they got credits for burning e-85. So they made it work. Not sure anyone is still doing it today.

Still doing it today Vehicles produced by major manufacturers run on this, in US they are called Flex Fuel. I have been trying to learn what I can about this. The interesting thing is that for modern vehicles, there is not a separate assembly line for flex fuel versions vs regular models and the ONLY difference is in the ECU software and the badge that says "flex fuel". Carbeurators need different sizes to support different air-fuel ratio, fuel injection does not. I think in 2022 or maybe even way before, there is enough chemistry knowledge to make a tube that can withstand gasoline and ethanol.
the valid problems of ethanol seem to be

• problems starting in cold weather without a block heater, or addition of volatile compound like starting fluid or ether.

• gasoline (long chain hydrocarbons)causes deposits to build up, switching an engine ran on gasoline with lots of buildups, to ethanol (a solvent) will quickly remove that buildup, which then ends up in the engine oil, degrading it or clogging an oil filter. so there is an initial requirement to change oil more frequently IF going to ethanol after a long time on gasoline.

• Theres probably more but those were the significant ones i have found so far

[bluefish_dist]

To truly run e-85 you need larger injectors, not a remap alone. You get a lower hp output without increasing injector size and a increase in fuel consumption. Imho a boondoggle perpetuated by lobbyists. If you are building high performance engines it is a fuel that can be utilized to make more power, but you need larger injectors and to adjust the engine to take advantage of the increased octane.

[football29]

To truly run e-85 you need larger injectors, not a remap alone. You get a lower hp output without increasing injector size and a increase in fuel consumption. Imho a boondoggle perpetuated by lobbyists. If you are building high performance engines it is a fuel that can be utilized to make more power, but you need larger injectors and to adjust the engine to take advantage of the increased octane.

I have just been searching on an auto parts website, one I have used many times to buy parts to repair my vehicles, its called Rock Auto. You select manufacturer, year, model, and configuration and you will get a list of parts available for that vehicle. If different versions of a part based on trim or options (2wd vs 4wd, turbo or natural aspirated, 2 door vs 4 door, whatever), that website will make you select exactly which version you have so you can order the correct parts. When I look for Fuel Injectors, for vehicles that have a Flex Fuel version, such as a Ford F-150, it doesn't ask if you have a Flex Fuel or a "regular" 5.0 engine - so I must believe both versions have the same fuel injectors.
Same result when I look at Dodge Ram fuel injectors, although for that vehicle there are some Fuel Pumps that are listed as not for FFV.
Those were just the first 2 models that showed up when I searched my local classified ad for "flex fuel", i didn't check every single flex fuel vehicle out there.

BTW I have found several resources that say E-85 makes slightly more power than regular gasoline in flex fuel vehicles. here is one: https://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/09/2 ... hanol.html
It's from taking advantage of E-85 higher octane rating. Just like electric fuel injection replaced mechanical carburator with something under computer control, most cars have their ignition controlled by computer too instead of mechanical distributor cap and rotor. So they can advance their timing with the higher octane fuel which increases power.

The only thing that flex fuel vehicles can not take advantage of, is that ethanol can also handle higher compression ratios, and the best power comes from the best compression ratio. But that is not computer controlled, it depends on mechanical engine dimensions, and so an engine built for best performance E-85 would knock or detonate if ran on pump gas. So a stock FFV on e85 would not perform as good as if a gear-head built up a E-85 only race motor from the same engine displacement.

[drmiller100]

Also there is a sensor in the fuel line that measures the etoh content of the fuel so the ecu can compute how much fuel to add.

Etoh can run much higher fuel ratios than gasoline. If you run Etoh at like 10 to 1 you super cool the intake charge getting more o2 into the combustion chamber and make more horsepower.
The turbo boys figured this out 20 years ago.