T500 false floor necessary?

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OldcarScott
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T500 false floor necessary?

Post by OldcarScott »

For an grain mash, instead of straining thinking about just pouring the whole thing in but don't want to burn/scorch anything.

#1 Is it necessary? I'm assuming the T500 floor is directly heated but I can't find an absolute answer on the interwebz.

#2 Anyone done it? Figured I can finagle and shape a stainless colander or something to fit over the bottom, but I have welding capabilities. Prefer to KISS if I can... :crazy:

EDIT #3 If it's just a plain bad idea someone say something....
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Re: T500 false floor necessary?

Post by Sporacle »

1. Think of a very thin skillet or pan on a heat source and how easily it scorches, that would be the same as a grain bed on your boiler base.

2. You could build something but if that was the most effective way to distill on grain then people wouldn't worry about steam or jacketed stills

3. Personally I would squeeze, rack and strip

Good luck
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tjsc5f
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Re: T500 false floor necessary?

Post by tjsc5f »

OldcarScott wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:34 pm #1 Is it necessary? I'm assuming the T500 floor is directly heated but I can't find an absolute answer on the interwebz.
Yes, something would be necessary to hold the grains off the bottom of the T500, they would definitely burn.
OldcarScott wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:34 pm #2 Anyone done it? Figured I can finagle and shape a stainless colander or something to fit over the bottom, but I have welding capabilities. Prefer to KISS if I can... :crazy:
I have not done this in a T500, but I have done it with the malt pipe in an Anvil Foundry (same concept) and it has worked out well for me.
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NZChris
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Re: T500 false floor necessary?

Post by NZChris »

I've heard some say they burn and others say they have gotten away with it. The difference might be the the year they were manufactured, or the competence of the operators. Either way, you can take steps to limit the chance of a burn.

Do a starch test. If you have starch in the wash, you have an increased chance of a burn in any still.

Butter the bottom of the boiler before filling.

Turn the heat on immediately after filling, while everything is still in suspension.

Stir while heating up.

Don't be impatient, keep the Watts low. Use a power controller. Full power is the most likely way to get a burn.
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Re: T500 false floor necessary?

Post by howie »

are you talking about pouring a fermented-on-the-grain wash into a boiler.............
or doing an all grain mash?
i just put a Biab in the boiler to easily strain the ferment on the grain wash.
you can buy a false bottom for Grainfathers/brewzilla/digiboil and re-shape.

one question about distilling on the grain, wouldn't the high temps of a distillation release unwanted tanins from the grain?
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Re: T500 false floor necessary?

Post by tjsc5f »

howie wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:59 am one question about distilling on the grain, wouldn't the high temps of a distillation release unwanted tanins from the grain?
If you're gelatinizing unmalted grains prior to fermentation, aren't you already cooking at higher temps than what you'd get during distillation?
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Ben
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Re: T500 false floor necessary?

Post by Ben »

tjsc5f wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:32 am
howie wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:59 am one question about distilling on the grain, wouldn't the high temps of a distillation release unwanted tanins from the grain?
If you're gelatinizing unmalted grains prior to fermentation, aren't you already cooking at higher temps than what you'd get during distillation?
Depends on the grains, and the altitude.

Usually you don't take anything but corn up to the 190 gel temp, most grain gels at 160 or lower. You don't really want to take barley or wheat above 160 if it can be helped at the mash stage. A lot of distilleries do distill on grain though, and that includes all the malt... not really sure where the disconnect is. There is a difference in acidity, and chemistry at distillation time.

At my altitude very little of the run occurs at or above corn gel temp.
:)
howie
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Re: T500 false floor necessary?

Post by howie »

tjsc5f wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 8:32 am
howie wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:59 am one question about distilling on the grain, wouldn't the high temps of a distillation release unwanted tanins from the grain?
If you're gelatinizing unmalted grains prior to fermentation, aren't you already cooking at higher temps than what you'd get during distillation?
i only take corn and rye (which doesn't have a husk) to high temps.
not sure if rye has tanins?
if i was using corn & barley recipe, i would only take the corn up to gel temps with HT enzyme, then bring it down to 65C before adding barley.
i was just thinking about the maximum suggested sparge water temps of 75C, that prevents/lowers the release of tanins from the grain husks, and whether distillation temps could have an effect on the grain husks post fermentation.
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Re: T500 false floor necessary?

Post by GrumbleStill »

I think that the OP is talking about distilling on the grain, which I read somewhere (bad memory, but I think it might have been a US craft forum) is a very traditional way to make bourbon/moonshine.

I have to own up and admit to trying it in my digiboil with the false floor installed….it ended badly :thumbdown:

Unless you have some form of agitation, the grain forms a thick bed on the false floor that doesn’t budge with the normal convection you get from a concealed element. The temperature under the false bottom skyrocketed to 135°C, tripped the boiler and scorched the crap out of base. The top of the boiler never even got warm.

A malt pipe like tjsc5f suggested would create more of a double boiler situation, which should work ok, and +1 on NZChris’s suggestions.

For me it’s lesson learned. I could have strained out 50 batches in the time it took to clean the crap off the boiler, and the stench out of the house.
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: T500 false floor necessary?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

I guess it all depends on what you call a false floor and what you make it of.
Ive used my T500 boiler to strip a few test runs of fruit wash.....one was fermented grapes, skins seeds and all.....another was Jaboticaba which was the same ....thick and contained everything.
I made my "False Floor" of very fine stainless mesh.....when I say fine , its fine fine......the floor sits on a stainless cake rack about 1 inch above the boilers bottom.
Some of the liquid from the wash fills that area, while the more solid parts of the wash and the rest of the liquid stay above the stainless mesh.
To date Ive only used it this way 2 or 3 times , but Ive never had a scorch,fingers crossed.
Sometime in the next month or two I need to strip another 20-25L of Jaboticaba wash ...I'll try to remember to take a few photos at the time.
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