Increasingly convinced my copper mesh is not actually copper!

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NormandieStill
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Increasingly convinced my copper mesh is not actually copper!

Post by NormandieStill »

Since I built the still, I've permanently had a little roll of copper mesh in-line with the vapours to compensate for the lack of copper in the still itself (30L keg + tri-clamp parts). My copper reflux column uses the stainless version of the same mesh as packing which came from an AliExpress seller (don't have the name at hand). From time-to-time I give the mesh a clean, generally when it starts to look or smell particularly manky. After 4 back-to-back stripping runs it had taken on a blueish sheen in places (not the green/blue of copper products, but more like the oily blue of titanium). I chucked it in a jar with some reflux heads to clean off any oils, and then in some vinegar to clean it up to fresh copper ready to process some more dirty sulphur (if needs be).

But it didn't really come clean
Copper_mesh.jpg
The vinegar bath seemed to go a lovely copper green, and had small glittering particles swirling around in it. I rinsed it off with hot water and left it to dry unrolled, and the above photo is what was left. I've used vinegar to clean up some copper pipe the other day and with barely any rubbing it came up pure and shiny. I'm not entirely sure what this is, but I think I'm coming around to the idea that it's not copper!

Any ideas?

And any reliable sources for copper mesh (actually made from, you know... copper!) in Europe? I know I can get it in the states, but the shipping is going to be more than a little painful.
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witch
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Re: Increasingly convinced my copper mesh is not actually copper!

Post by witch »

i got my copper mesh off this site had no problems UK based or try amazon

https://distillinguk.uk/copper-mesh/
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Re: Increasingly convinced my copper mesh is not actually copper!

Post by Salt Must Flow »

You can confirm if it's copper by just cutting a piece and see what color the core of the material is.
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Re: Increasingly convinced my copper mesh is not actually copper!

Post by ThomasBrewer »

That looks like copper to me, Normandie. You can run a magnet over it and check to see if it's attracted if you suspect it might be plated material.
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Re: Increasingly convinced my copper mesh is not actually copper!

Post by Salt Must Flow »

ThomasBrewer wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 7:53 pm That looks like copper to me, Normandie. You can run a magnet over it and check to see if it's attracted if you suspect it might be plated material.
What if it's copper plated stainless steel? It may not be magnetic. Just saying. Cut a piece and see if it's the color of copper.
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Re: Increasingly convinced my copper mesh is not actually copper!

Post by cob »

Salt Must Flow wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:14 pm
What if it's copper plated stainless steel? It may not be magnetic. Just saying. Cut a piece and see if it's the color of copper.
It has a sectional density from .00002for medium -.00005 for heavy. Do you think you can see that without significant magnification?
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Re: Increasingly convinced my copper mesh is not actually copper!

Post by shadylane »

Try melting a piece of the copper mesh.
Or even whack it with a hammer to see how malleable it is.
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Re: Increasingly convinced my copper mesh is not actually copper!

Post by NormandieStill »

Salt Must Flow wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:14 pm
ThomasBrewer wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 7:53 pm That looks like copper to me, Normandie. You can run a magnet over it and check to see if it's attracted if you suspect it might be plated material.
What if it's copper plated stainless steel? It may not be magnetic. Just saying. Cut a piece and see if it's the color of copper.
With my contact lenses in, my vision is not too bad, but I don't think that I can see the core (if there is one) in a piece of wire that's about 1/10 mm in diameter! :-)

Thanks for the comments everyone. I guess what I was wondering is, does anyone else have copper mesh that looks like this? I find it strange that the vinegar bath doesn't clean it up in the same way as it would copper pipe. And the shiny sections could be exposed "some-other-material", or simply a crust that has formed on the wire.

I'll have a go at whacking a bit with a hammer. Other than relieving some frustration I'm not quite sure what to expect though.
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Re: Increasingly convinced my copper mesh is not actually copper!

Post by NZChris »

If it didn't look like copper after a citric acid bath, I'd be worried.
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Re: Increasingly convinced my copper mesh is not actually copper!

Post by shadylane »

NormandieStill wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:00 am
...What if it's copper plated stainless steel?
That's a possibility
But not a problem.
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Re: Increasingly convinced my copper mesh is not actually copper!

Post by NormandieStill »

NZChris wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:57 am If it didn't look like copper after a citric acid bath, I'd be worried.
Didn't think of citric acid. I'll give that a shot and see how it looks. If I can't get it back to pre-patina copper then I'm calling fraud and buying some more. Or just finally making a copper riser for the still.
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Re: Increasingly convinced my copper mesh is not actually copper!

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Hot dunder or backset will achieve the same result as citric
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Re: Increasingly convinced my copper mesh is not actually copper!

Post by Rrmuf »

+1 on saltbush,s suggestion.
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Ben
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Re: Increasingly convinced my copper mesh is not actually copper!

Post by Ben »

Archimedes says you can solve the question with a scale and a volumetric measuring device....

The easier way would be to cut a tiny piece off, add it to a mix of 2 parts vinegar, 1 part hydrogen peroxide. If it's plated this will remove the plating, if its solid it will either dissolve completely or you will just keep seeing copper (depending on how much copper you have, and how much solvent)
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Re: Increasingly convinced my copper mesh is not actually copper!

Post by NormandieStill »

Four hours in a fairly concentrated citric acid bath (I didn't have any hot backset to hand, and didn't want to trip anything until I resolved the question) seems to have cleaned it up somewhat. The sheen that I had thought was an inner core being exposed now wipes off. I have no idea what was in the last batches that I ran to make it look like that. I'm now confident that it is indeed copper and will stop overthinking.

I was checking up because I may soon run my first batch of something that definitely produced sulphur (wild fermented apple juice probably suffering from a nitrogen deficiency. Adding DAP and stirring with a copper tube seem to have removed the smell, but I want my sulphur-scavenging copper in place if I decide to run it (instead of turning it into cider vinegar).
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Re: Increasingly convinced my copper mesh is not actually copper!

Post by NZChris »

Four hours??? My copper is bright within a few minutes in citric acid.

Especially when you have a sulfide problem, you need copper in the boiler as well.
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Re: Increasingly convinced my copper mesh is not actually copper!

Post by NormandieStill »

NZChris wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 12:27 am Four hours??? My copper is bright within a few minutes in citric acid.
I went out!
NZChris wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 12:27 am Especially when you have a sulfide problem, you need copper in the boiler as well.
Got that already. I tend to leave my abortive attempt at making copper coils for packing media (too time consuming) sitting in the bottom of the boiler. I may dump the copper pipe I used for stirring in with the wash if / when I run it.
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Re: Increasingly convinced my copper mesh is not actually copper!

Post by Saltbush Bill »

NormandieStill wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 12:14 am I didn't have any hot backset to hand
Doesn't need to be hot, hot just works a bit quicker. :wink: .....still might come in useful one day.
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Re: Increasingly convinced my copper mesh is not actually copper!

Post by Rrmuf »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 2:22 am
NormandieStill wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 12:14 am I didn't have any hot backset to hand
Doesn't need to be hot, hot just works a bit quicker. :wink: .....still might come in useful one day.
Aha. Good to know.
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Re: Increasingly convinced my copper mesh is not actually copper!

Post by Medicine_man »

It's probably copper...but...
I use a copper and acid solution to do electroplating. The Blue color (watered down Gatorade) comes from copper acetate which you don't want to consume, but still is from copper.
You may also have a copper alloy (common for copper scrubbing pads for pots and pans) that is effectively copper but may have another added element.
Either way I would err on the side of safety and order some new 100% mesh from your favorite brew supplier.
Even with the prices today the mesh roll should last quite a while, making it a worthwhile investment.
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Re: Increasingly convinced my copper mesh is not actually copper!

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

I get my copper mesh on Amazon and it’s advertised as 100% pure copper. I’ve been using the same roll for a long time. I know it works because I’ve cleaned up some pretty sulfury stuff with it no problem.

When some of it looks really dirty, I just throw it in the boiler during a run and it comes out looking new. I cycle between copper in my riser and into my boiler as a cleaning process, but try to always have some patina’d copper in the vapor path. I haven’t had to throw any of it away since starting the hobby.

As Chris said too, you should always have some copper in the boiler, mesh works great for that.
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Re: Increasingly convinced my copper mesh is not actually copper!

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

Coldbreak MESH100 Mesh, 5" x 100', Pure 100% Copper, USA Made https://a.co/d/8g4IHQc

Here’s what I use. They even have something in the description about using it for distilling
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Re: Increasingly convinced my copper mesh is not actually copper!

Post by Saltbush Bill »

That looks like good stuff Brian . :thumbup:
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Re: Increasingly convinced my copper mesh is not actually copper!

Post by Deplorable »

BrewinBrian44 wrote: Wed Dec 28, 2022 1:57 pm Coldbreak MESH100 Mesh, 5" x 100', Pure 100% Copper, USA Made https://a.co/d/8g4IHQc

Here’s what I use. They even have something in the description about using it for distilling
Ive got some of that, and some of the stuff sold on moonshinedistiller.com, both are good quality products, but the stuff on MD is of higher quality. Its a triple strand weave. Both get the job done.
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Re: Increasingly convinced my copper mesh is not actually copper!

Post by Chauncey »

I doubt they would try and copper plate stainless, have you tested it with a magnet? When I originally used copper scrubbers I went to all the corner stores/Bodegas getting chore boy crack pipe scrubbers and I'd test them with a magnet before I bought them. If they were magnetic I knew they were copper plated. Some of those people must think I'm the craziest crackhead of all, lol. And yes that's why they are always next to the baking soda and usually behind the counter. #itsabadneighborhood
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Re: Increasingly convinced my copper mesh is not actually copper!

Post by JJB11B »

I just spent 3 hours looking for this thread! I saw the title on my cell phone the other day.
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Re: Increasingly convinced my copper mesh is not actually copper!

Post by JJB11B »

bought some "100% copper Mesh on Amazon to put in my 2" column. I did 3x 4" rolls of copper, Yesterday I noticed as I was finishing up collecting my tails that there was copper particles floating on top of the tails....

When I pulled the copper out of the column after the run it had Patina'd fairly heavily, so I rinsed it with some Dawn dish soap and hot water and popped it into a quart of warm vinegar. Hopefully it didn't dissolve overnight. I will check when I get home.
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Re: Increasingly convinced my copper mesh is not actually copper!

Post by BoomTown »

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Ben wrote: Tue Nov 15, 2022 8:37 am Archimedes says you can solve the question with a scale and a volumetric measuring device....

The easier way would be to cut a tiny piece off, add it to a mix of 2 parts vinegar, 1 part hydrogen peroxide. If it's plated this will remove the plating, if its solid it will either dissolve completely or you will just keep seeing copper (depending on how much copper you have, and how much solvent)
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