Oak mason jar lids.

[boschd]

I made a version of this without the central hole, using a drill press to stabilize the hole saw bit. Initially I was thinking that I would need to fill and empty them through this hole because the wood would be too tight, however after saturating for a full 24 hours, even without wax there is zero Leak with them flipped upside down, and I can still remove the wood, negating the need for the hole in the center. There definitely was some expansion of the wood, but not enough to get them to seal tightly without the metal ring. I do like the idea of putting a bung or spigot in though. Would look really cool.

Funny, my wife actually told me to sell these on Etsy...

[boschd]

Your talking about just sealing the edge, right? Just want to be sure. You want the head to breath I would think. I think what you are doing is a great idea if you can keep the edges of that ring dry.

Otis

yes if I'm going to use any wax at all it would just be along the edge. I appreciate all the suggestions!

[cayars]

I like the idea of selling them on Etsy but I'd suggest you first send me a couple dozen units for additional testing, QA purposes and endorsements. LOL

I'm having trouble trying to picture how you used the drill press to NOT have to make the central hole. Any chance you have a pic or can elaborate a bit how you did that?

With all the crazy things available these days for home distillers, it's amazing you don't see something like this sold a lot commercially. Anyone using staves could benefit as much with these as well. I think I remember seeing one other person doing something like this a few years back but can't remember who. Coreane1 (sp?) maybe? I've had it on my todo list but it just never made it to the top to get done.

[boschd]

Regarding the drill press- I clamped the oak board down and then was able to use just the hole saw portion with the central drill bit removed.

PM me if you're serious about wanting to try some. I'm sure we can work something out. Or just get lucky like me and have your ex-brother-in-law give you his lathe...

[corene1]

I'm envious of your lathe.

I'm curious to find out how your turned lids 'stretch' once saturated with spirit. I seem to recall Corene once mentioning that oak tends to expand along the open end of the grain.

You can see pictures of mine a few posts earlier here. I use an oak dowel to seal the hole and inverted the cap so the base wood will not stick in the jar. The first few I made I fit pretty snugly in the mouth of the mason jar, maybe .020 clearance and over time the swelling of the wood actually cracked one of the jars and had others get stuck in the jar mouth. That is when I inverted the lid and let the base wood stick out the top of the ring and the flush face up against the mouth of the jar. I never could keep them from warping after the were removed from the jar. They do swell and the jar ring will get very tight over time, but they do work well. For storing them in between use I took a piece of 1/4 inch stainless all thread and made a couple of stainless steel plates. I would put the lids on the all thread with a plate on each end then tighten the nuts down to clamp the wood lids flat.

[Twisted Brick]

Thanks Corene. I remember the photos and it is understandable that under the long-term effects of a 120pf liquor the oak's cell walls would eventually become a little 'relaxed'. That this breakdown occurs really highlights the genius of a barrel's configuration.

[cayars]

The first few I made I fit pretty snugly in the mouth of the mason jar, maybe .020 clearance and over time the swelling of the wood actually cracked one of the jars and had others get stuck in the jar mouth.

Are you still using the oak lids for aging? Did you ever give any thought to adding a bung hole/cork or similar and never remove the lids to avoid warping and other problems?

We don't remove the top of barrels to fill/empty them so maybe we shouldn't remove these lids either once "assembled". Thoughts?

[corene1]

Probably many different ways to approach using these type lids. I have always used the oak dowel and stored them on the clamp rod. Don't see why you couldn't make a hole for some sort of bung and keep the lid permanently attached.. The oak is hard enough that you could drill and tap a pipe thread and use a ptfe pipe plug or just drill and cut a slight taper in it and make some type of tapered oak plugs . I remove the lid to replace the oak chunks used in the spirit so I never considered using a bung. I guess you could rely completely on the lid it self for flavor . I let my jars stand up and use the lid for breathing only. It does get moist from the vapors moving in and out though. You would need to cut the blanks then toast them to the desired toast then char the face . Do all the machining last. What is the old saying? There are lots of ways to skin a cat.

[cayars]

Good points corene1, I hadn't thought about changing the staves or wood inside the jar which would become problematic unless it was a big bung hole. I was just thinking this would help with the warping you mentioned earlier.

I'm actually more interested in this from the stand point of letting the jars breath vs using the wood to flavor the product. Maybe I'm just overthinking it and could drill a hole in a mason lid and then stick a cork in it to achieve some breathing???

[corene1]

Good points corene1, I hadn't thought about changing the staves or wood inside the jar which would become problematic unless it was a big bung hole. I was just thinking this would help with the warping you mentioned earlier.

I'm actually more interested in this from the stand point of letting the jars breath vs using the wood to flavor the product. Maybe I'm just overthinking it and could drill a hole in a mason lid and then stick a cork in it to achieve some breathing???

If a person was really tricky they could machine an oak lid that would screw onto a gallon pickle jar, or one of those 2 gallon glass sun tea jars. Now that my brain is on some wild tangent. How about taking a small stainless keg and putting a few 4 inch tri clamp ferrules on it then make some blank toasted and charred oak caps to clamp into them.

[HDNB]

Badmo barrel.

[corene1]

Badmo barrel.

Do you know the cost of one of those barrels? Looks like the staves can be replaced but I can't figure out how the press them in and keep them from coming out. Must have a compression type ring on the outside holding them in.

[boschd]

Just posting an update on my mason jar Oak lids. They work very well initially, and now are frustratingly seeping from the ends. They are laying on their sides so that the spirit is in contact with the wood constantly. I also noticed this happens mostly when I am applying heat to them. (I have them on a seed mat and cycle every 6 hours on and off). I have tried waxing them shut and using PTFE tapes and neither has worked well. I think it must be the thin wood on the edges that the alcohol spirit is seeping through that water did not during my initial test run.

Because I am planning on Aging for 6 months to a year, any amount of seepage will not work. I think I'm going to go to the badmo barrel after doing a lot more reading on this. Luckily for me, a 1.25 quart Bain Marie will match my intended surface area/volume ratio (about 95cm2/L).

[OtisT]

Badmo barrel.

Do you know the cost of one of those barrels? Looks like the staves can be replaced but I can't figure out how the press them in and keep them from coming out. Must have a compression type ring on the outside holding them in.

Hi Corene,
I did not reply earlier thinking Badmovator would chime in, but I see that did not happen. When I make them, I sell them for around $80 +/- depending a bit on size and hardware.

The staves can be replaced, though I’ve not done that myself yet on a used barrel. (My first barrels are not dead yet.). I have popped out and reinserted staves for size reasons. Badmo has a video on how to easily do this with compressed air. The lids pop right out with enough pressure. The new lid may need to be a hair larger because the rim of the pan expands with the lid is pressed in.

As for inserting them, no ring is needed. You just need to properly size the lid with a proper angle (like a cork) that matches the pan’s side wall angle. (Too much angle and the lid will have a bow in it when it swells.) When it comes to diameter, It’s a fine line between crack the pan to just right to too loose. A proper diameter size/angle will just barely fit in the pan, maybe 1/8” in, with most of the wood sticking out. Pressing the lid in requires a plate on the wood that is just smaller than the ID of the pan so it holds the staves flat yet won’t catch on the pan. (The plate also needs gaps for the hardware,). When pressed in, you can see a bulge in the pan from the lid. If it’s squeezing out, the lid is likely not tapered right or not tight enough. Maybe too much wax too. I press them in so there is a good 1/4” of lip on the pan. I let the barrels sit at least a week and I leak test for a few days too to see if the lids squeeze out. Maybe 1 on 10 will do this. With those, I simply press them in a bit further to see if they will take. If it persists I have popped the lid out with air and used a slightly larger lid, and in one case I simply tig welded a tab to hold the one side that kept popping out.

Otis

[boschd]

With a lathe and 5in hole saw, this 1.25 quart Badmo came together almost too easy. single piece of wood, no staves required. much thanks to the bad motivater!

[SaltyStaves]

single piece of wood, no staves required.

Changes in barometric pressure open and close the spaces between staves. Its a fundamental part of how barrels work. You may be able to get that happening between the edge of the disc and the stainless bucket, but there is also a built in pressure relief when you have segmented staves. They will push against each other and flex. A single disc may not behave in the same way. It may simply pop.

Or you might find it is perfectly fine. I look forward to seeing how you go and whether its viable.

[pope]

Do y’all tongue and groove or sliding dovetail the staves, or just use wood dowels like the og badmo post?

[OtisT]

Do y’all tongue and groove or sliding dovetail the staves, or just use wood dowels like the og badmo post?

I use a tongue and groove. I started making them like Badmo shows, using “biscuits”, but I find the T&G keeps things aligned better and the faces of each stave end up perfectly flush. Otis

[pope]

Glad to have that validation! I thought T&G or sliding dovetail sounded like it'd be easier to shape the head too, holding the piece together while you're working it.

[Andyinak]

I have not found 1/8th thick white american oak.

Try Ooch Hardwoods out of Wisconsin. They have various thicknesses in all kinds of hardwoods. They have a 1/8x4x24 Quartersawn white American oak for like $4 plus shipping. Look under project wood.

[Clearmoon247]

I have not found 1/8th thick white american oak.

Try Ooch Hardwoods out of Wisconsin. They have various thicknesses in all kinds of hardwoods. They have a 1/8x4x24 Quartersawn white American oak for like $4 plus shipping. Look under project wood.

I have used their wood in the early days of my development and the overall flavors from their quarter sawn oak were very grassy, sappy, and overly vegital. Its the same flavor I found in a lot of craft whiskey. Their maple wood, when baked at 425°F for 60 min makes for a crazy good maple/roasted marshmallow flavor if used in short times (e.g. less than 6 months). The cherry wood can give interesting floral flavors that you can't really recreate otherwise.

[RockyMountainHigh]

Has anyone used a trim router with a straight bit and a hole cutting jig? I have used this method to cut recessed holes in speaker cabinets.

[TwoSheds]

Has anyone used a trim router with a straight bit and a hole cutting jig? I have used this method to cut recessed holes in speaker cabinets.

There's no reason that wouldn't work, but many jig designs require a nail or screw to rotate around which could mean a hole in the lid. You can work around that with a sacrificial piece on the workpiece to hold the screw.

I've had good luck with a hole saw with the mandrel removed. A 3 1/2" hole saw made a disc that fits perfectly on a wide mouth mason jar. One of these days I'll get around to posting about it.

[cob]

I have not found 1/8th thick white american oak.

Try Ooch Hardwoods out of Wisconsin. They have various thicknesses in all kinds of hardwoods. They have a 1/8x4x24 Quartersawn white American oak for like $4 plus shipping. Look under project wood.

I have used their wood in the early days of my development and the overall flavors from their quarter sawn oak were very grassy, sappy, and overly vegital. Its the same flavor I found in a lot of craft whiskey. Their maple wood, when baked at 425°F for 60 min makes for a crazy good maple/roasted marshmallow flavor if used in short times (e.g. less than 6 months). The cherry wood can give interesting floral flavors that you can't really recreate otherwise.

Were you using this wood without seasoning it?

[TwoSheds]

Were you using this wood without seasoning it?

I use the lids without seasoning, toasting or charring because I only age upright so any liquid contact is just from splashing. I add stave chunks for wood contact and use oak lids for oxygen exchange.

[BrewinBrian44]

Were you using this wood without seasoning it?

I use the lids without seasoning, toasting or charring because I only age upright so any liquid contact is just from splashing. I add stave chunks for wood contact and use oak lids for oxygen exchange.

I'm sure they also look cool as hell too! haha

[BrewinBrian44]

Slightly off topic, but if the goal is to use the lid simply for the oxygen exchange and not to flavor the spirit, those widgetco corks work very well and have a size that works perfect for a standard mouth jar. I like these because I can use them for half pints, pints and quarts. I bought a bunch.

[jonnys_spirit]

Were you using this wood without seasoning it?

I use the lids without seasoning, toasting or charring because I only age upright so any liquid contact is just from splashing. I add stave chunks for wood contact and use oak lids for oxygen exchange.

3.5" hole saw? How thin are these?

Cheers,
j

[TwoSheds]

Were you using this wood without seasoning it?

I use the lids without seasoning, toasting or charring because I only age upright so any liquid contact is just from splashing. I add stave chunks for wood contact and use oak lids for oxygen exchange.

3.5" hole saw? How thin are these?

Cheers,
j

Just 1/4” thick. My feeling is the thinner oak will offer more oxygen exchange than thicker which will compensate somewhat for the smaller ratio of breathable surface to volume.

Since I’ve got the tools and scrap wood already it’s cheaper than buying corks and I like wide mouth because jars are readily available from pint to half gallon.

Not perfect, but working for me.