Rum Oils?

Anything to do with rum

Moderator: Site Moderator

Post Reply
User avatar
BoisBlancBoy
Distiller
Posts: 1165
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:17 pm
Location: Tip of the Mitt

Rum Oils?

Post by BoisBlancBoy »

Alright after reading Pugi’s recipe and him talking about saving the rum oils I did some searching. It seems like there really isn’t much info on Rum oils. Are these really something worth saving, the tails between 40-20%?

Everything I come across no one talks about them but more so that the Dunder is where the flavor is.
User avatar
Saltbush Bill
Site Mod
Posts: 9675
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
Location: Northern NSW Australia

Re: Rum Oils?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

BoisBlancBoy wrote:Are these really something worth saving, the tails between 40-20%?
You'll probably get as many different opinions and ideas as answers with a question like that, this is mine.
When I make my rum and Ive finished collecting Hearts I always strip way down to 10-15 %.
These tails always go back into the next rum spirit run.
Ive been doing it that way for a long time now and I am sure the flavor of my rum has improved in that time. Ive been adding those deep tails back now for about 40 generations.
Contrary to what some people say the tails don't build up and you wont get more and more tails each run.
When you strip down that far you will find that you get one demijohn of cloudy spirit, then after that the distillate will go clear again.
My thinking is that the cloudy stuff is where the oils and some of the flavor lay. Once your into the clear stuff again your ABV is pretty low and there isn't a lot of flavour but I include some of the clear stuff anyway.
User avatar
BoisBlancBoy
Distiller
Posts: 1165
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:17 pm
Location: Tip of the Mitt

Re: Rum Oils?

Post by BoisBlancBoy »

Saltbush Bill wrote:
BoisBlancBoy wrote:Are these really something worth saving, the tails between 40-20%?
You'll probably get as many different opinions and ideas as answers with a question like that, this is mine.
When I make my rum and Ive finished collecting Hearts I always strip way down to 10-15 %.
So after collecting your hearts from your spirit run you crank up the heat and strip?
User avatar
Saltbush Bill
Site Mod
Posts: 9675
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
Location: Northern NSW Australia

Re: Rum Oils?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Yes that is right.
Just to be clear I also use dunder when making the wash.
vqstatesman
Swill Maker
Posts: 185
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:58 am
Location: South Australia

Re: Rum Oils?

Post by vqstatesman »

I'm with Saltbush on this one. I collect as much tails as I can and add them unto the next batch. For the record I'm yet to try dunder.

Another good debate is cleared wash or everything in the boiler? I'm all in and convinced this gives great mouthfeel and flavour depth. But I digressed sorry.
User avatar
thecroweater
retired
Posts: 6079
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:04 am
Location: Central Highlands Vic. Australia

Re: Rum Oils?

Post by thecroweater »

I do the same with my recipe and get the same result. I use to use dunder religiously but gave it up as a bad joke a few years ago and never looked back. I don't specifically chase rum oils but they are quite visibly there floating on my later tail jars. As SBB points out reusing tails will not exponentially build your tails fraction, you will see an ever reducing increase for the first few runs (2 or 3) but will very soon realise it's not linear. You will notice after just a very few generations that your cuts ratios will stabilise and will be more or less unchanged provided the recipe, volume and conditions remain constant. I have never really seen the sense in separating the oils off the tails just to add them back, haven't seen a compelling and logical argument for the effort. I did give it a go years ago after reading about it, even added some to finished rum, don't try that at home kids :thumbdown:
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Benjamin Franklin
User avatar
BoisBlancBoy
Distiller
Posts: 1165
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:17 pm
Location: Tip of the Mitt

Re: Rum Oils?

Post by BoisBlancBoy »

thecroweater wrote:I do the same with my recipe and get the same result. I use to use dunder religiously but gave it up as a bad joke a few years ago and never looked back. I don't specifically chase rum oils but they are quite visibly there floating on my later tail jars. As SBB points out reusing tails will not exponentially build your tails fraction, you will see an ever reducing increase for the first few runs (2 or 3) but will very soon realise it's not linear. You will notice after just a very few generations that your cuts ratios will stabilise and will be more or less unchanged provided the recipe, volume and conditions remain constant. I have never really seen the sense in separating the oils off the tails just to add them back, haven't seen a compelling and logical argument for the effort. I did give it a go years ago after reading about it, even added some to finished rum, don't try that at home kids :thumbdown:

Alright alright, what happened in your experience and dunder? How were you using it?
User avatar
Saltbush Bill
Site Mod
Posts: 9675
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
Location: Northern NSW Australia

Re: Rum Oils?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Just for the record Ive never seen what I would call oils floating on the surface of anything Ive distilled, some of the low wines go cloudy and feel oily, but then so do any low ABV wines, cloudy or not.
In my Rum I use both, low wines, low low wines/ rum oils what ever you like to call them, and dunder, as well as all Molasses, no sugar.
I'm after all the flavour I can get without playing around with chemicals that might burn my eyes out or skin off.
User avatar
thecroweater
retired
Posts: 6079
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:04 am
Location: Central Highlands Vic. Australia

Re: Rum Oils?

Post by thecroweater »

@ SBB next time you got late tails collect some in a small jar, if you hold it up you will see a clear denser layer on top maybe 1mm thick in a 400 or 500 ml jar.
@ BBB I used it for added flavour but found I had plenty there anyway plus a few years back I had some preservative issue that was compounded by collecting the dunder. I still have a dunder pit, why I don't know but I have less stuff to contend with without it and a ton of flavour. After trying all sorts of recipes I've found keeping it simple works best for me.
This is my method which is not much unlike the first method I used and found it does me and going from the messages I've had plenty of others just fine. There are a ton of recipes all a bit different all good, my point is just because rum oils are not separated out doesn't mean they ain't getting used, you add tails you are using them :thumbup:
viewtopic.php?f=101&t=68260
Last edited by thecroweater on Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Dufus me forgot the link
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Benjamin Franklin
Bob9863
Novice
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:49 pm

Re: Rum Oils?

Post by Bob9863 »

When I do a rum run I drain the boiler strait back into my fermenter (40lt) with 6kg of raw sugar and 500ml of mollasse and stir it all up then add fresh yeast and a little DAP and let it run.
The next batch is better then the 1st and I keep adding the sugar and doing that over and over for about 6 runs.

It might not be perfect but it takes less space, saves on clean-up and it tastes better and better each run.
User avatar
still_stirrin
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10337
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:01 am
Location: where the buffalo roam, and the deer & antelope play

Re: Rum Oils?

Post by still_stirrin »

Bob,

Do you add pH adjustment to the compounding ferments? I would think that the backset would be getting increasingly acidic resulting from the compounding such that the fermentation might become stunted with multiple generations (without pH management). I’m curious...
ss
My LM/VM & Potstill: My build thread
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K
User avatar
BoisBlancBoy
Distiller
Posts: 1165
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:17 pm
Location: Tip of the Mitt

Re: Rum Oils?

Post by BoisBlancBoy »

@croweater thanks for the explanation. Your logic on the rum oils makes sense. After you are doing collecting hearts and are into the tails do you do the same same as SBB and turn the heat up? Seems to me that would make sense and not worry about running slow just to collect deep into the tails.
User avatar
thecroweater
retired
Posts: 6079
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:04 am
Location: Central Highlands Vic. Australia

Re: Rum Oils?

Post by thecroweater »

I have a bit different still to him so I don't have to to keep collecting but yeah about have way through tails or when ever production and ABV drop off I do :thumbup:
Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Benjamin Franklin
User avatar
Stonecutter
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1911
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:40 pm
Location: Somewhere within the Milkyway

Re: Rum Oils?

Post by Stonecutter »

Stripped my first rum wash today and the distillate had a brown tint from just after the fores cut all the way down to the cloudy tails where it wasn’t noticeable. I have a sight glass above boiler and tend the still so I know I didn’t have a puke. I thought for sure a scorch but after emptying the boiler the element was clean. Is it possibly rum oils? Is this why Buccaneer Bob suggests using a cloth to filter the collection when stripping? To be specific it wasn’t just floating on the top like an oil slick and there were no specs of anything. It’s simply a brown tinted distillate. I did see the oil slick in my tails.
Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing.
-Thomas Paine
User avatar
Saltbush Bill
Site Mod
Posts: 9675
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
Location: Northern NSW Australia

Re: Rum Oils?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Stonecutter wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 4:52 pm and the distillate had a brown tint from just after the fores cut all the way down to the cloudy tails where it wasn’t noticeable. I have a sight glass above boiler and tend the still so I know I didn’t have a puke.
Ive never seen anything like that ........I cant see it being anything other than a puke.
User avatar
Stonecutter
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1911
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:40 pm
Location: Somewhere within the Milkyway

Re: Rum Oils?

Post by Stonecutter »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 5:29 pm Ive never seen anything like that ........I cant see it being anything other than a puke.
Thanks for your input Salty I was hoping one of you Rum heads would give your input.
Damn. I know it didn’t puke. Maybe I didn’t rinse my condenser or riser well enough the last time I used it. The still has been sitting for a while. I’m going to keep it separate. And run it in my smaller pot to see what happens.
Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing.
-Thomas Paine
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Rum Oils?

Post by NZChris »

User avatar
Stonecutter
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1911
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:40 pm
Location: Somewhere within the Milkyway

Re: Rum Oils?

Post by Stonecutter »

Thanks NZC. I did follow that topic as it evolved. And I tried my damndest to search before asking. This first rum run has been different that’s for sure. Between the silver oils on the riser and the brown distillate. New things to learn all the time.
Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing.
-Thomas Paine
StillerBoy
Master of Distillation
Posts: 3387
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:27 pm
Location: Ontario

Re: Rum Oils?

Post by StillerBoy »

Stonecutter wrote: Sun Nov 27, 2022 4:52 pm and the distillate had a brown tint from just after the fores cut all the way down to the cloudy tails where it wasn’t noticeable.
The brown tint will come across if the strip run is done to hard and/or if the head space is not sufficient and /or how much moly is in the fermented batch, all contribute .. I've experimented with the tint, and if I don't push to hard, being about 3500w or less, I don't get the brownish tint, but if pushed it's there, and I just and just add a filter, and I do raise the power some as the ABV gets depleted, and yes, at a certain temp, the low wines do become cloudy..

My rum batches are 15 gal with 6L fancy molasses and 6K panela, so my low wine if push will be brownish..

Mars
" I know quite certainly that I myself have no special talent. Curiosity, Obsession and dogged endurance, combined with self-criticism, have brought me to my knowledge and understanding "

– Albert Einstein
User avatar
Stonecutter
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1911
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:40 pm
Location: Somewhere within the Milkyway

Re: Rum Oils?

Post by Stonecutter »

StillerBoy wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 11:49 am
The brown tint will come across if the strip run is done to hard and/or if the head space is not sufficient and /or how much moly is in the fermented batch, all contribute .. I've experimented with the tint, and if I don't push to hard, being about 3500w or less, I don't get the brownish tint, but if pushed it's there, and I just and just add a filter, and I do raise the power some as the ABV gets depleted, and yes, at a certain temp, the low wines do become cloudy..

My rum batches are 15 gal with 6L fancy molasses and 6K panela, so my low wine if push will be brownish..

Mars
Molasses was sold as black strap from the online restaurant supply retailer. This stuff had a real low viscosity. It seemed like quality mole ass. I hit the strip run at full speed. It never foamed up which was surprising because I had a full 75% charge and the way it was kind of fizzing when I put it in the boiler.
I really appreciate your input StillerBoy and what you’re saying makes sense to me
Like I said I had a full 2000w pointed at my 2” pot. It’s not a ton of power though as it was pissin’ I pondered how the hell something that looks like motor oil not scorch or pass some of that color on?
Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing.
-Thomas Paine
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Rum Oils?

Post by NZChris »

Color in rum Low Wines after the foreshot has got more to do with the vapor speed and surface tension than anything else. Just because some distillers who have sight glasses say they didn't have a puke but got color, doesn't mean that there was no wash being carried over as fine droplets because their still head was too short, or wasn't designed to minimize it.

At the end of a strip, your total collection should be cloudy unless you are wanting the instant gratification of having a young white rum, ready to drink with Coke. There is nothing wrong with a well made young white rum, especially if your drinks cabinet is empty and that is what you and your friends like to drink.
User avatar
Saltbush Bill
Site Mod
Posts: 9675
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
Location: Northern NSW Australia

Re: Rum Oils?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

NZChris wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:52 pm At the end of a strip, your total collection should be cloudy
Your molasses washes must be different to mine Chris......or the quality of the molasses. I strip till cloudy , but not till the total collection is cloudy.
I strip into a 5L demijohns.....those in turn gets emptied into a 50L beer keg for storage purposes. Once Ive collected 4 to 5 L of cloudy oily stuff in the last demijohn then I'm done.
If I collected into one container and waited for the whole thing to go cloudy I'd be there for a week.
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Rum Oils?

Post by NZChris »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 12:41 am
NZChris wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:52 pm At the end of a strip, your total collection should be cloudy
Your molasses washes must be different to mine Chris......or the quality of the molasses. I strip till cloudy , but not till the total collection is cloudy.
I strip into a 5L demijohns.....those in turn gets emptied into a 50L beer keg for storage purposes. Once Ive collected 4 to 5 L of cloudy oily stuff in the last demijohn then I'm done.
If I collected into one container and waited for the whole thing to go cloudy I'd be there for a week.
I thought you used a plater?

I don't wait for a rum strip to go cloudy. Cloudy is what it is when the Low Wines collection reaches my target abv.

Because I use a Charentais style preheater when doing consecutive stripping runs, I can strip for long after there is more alcohol coming out of the preheater than is coming from the main still, so there is no extra time or energy cost from running until I have my desired Low Wines ABV in the receiver, plus there is no heat up time and energy cost between strips. I have a lot of respect and gratitude for whoever invented the system.
User avatar
Saltbush Bill
Site Mod
Posts: 9675
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
Location: Northern NSW Australia

Re: Rum Oils?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

NZChris wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:09 am I thought you used a plater?
I do mostly, but does that mean I dont ever use or need Rum low wines?
For what its worth I usually charge my boiler with approximately 3/4 molasses wash and 1/4 low wines......it makes the run worth while doing and doesn't seem to affect flavour.
As you well know,to end up with a good stash of well aged booze you need to make a lot more than you can drink......using some low wines to bump the wash abv is the way that I choose to achieve that goal.
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Rum Oils?

Post by NZChris »

My rum spirit runs are often the other way around, 3/4 Low Wines, 1/4 wash, always done in a pot still.

To get a good yield, I use a big fermenter.
User avatar
Saltbush Bill
Site Mod
Posts: 9675
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
Location: Northern NSW Australia

Re: Rum Oils?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

NZChris wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:55 am To get a good yield, I use a big fermenter.
I use a 200L stainless steel fermenter ......thats big enough for me.....infact Ive got 2 of them if I feel the need to go really big.
To get a good yield I use a 110 L boiler and wash mixed with low wines......we all have ways of getting where we want .....those ways just differ some.
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Rum Oils?

Post by NZChris »

We probably spirit run with about the same amount of alcohol in the boiler, but my 33l is less than a third of the size.
User avatar
Stonecutter
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1911
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:40 pm
Location: Somewhere within the Milkyway

Re: Rum Oils?

Post by Stonecutter »

NZChris wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 9:52 pm
At the end of a strip, your total collection should be cloudy unless you are wanting the instant gratification of having a young white rum, ready to drink with Coke.
This strip is cloudy. Went to a total collected volume of +-35%.
Will be a few days more till the spirit run. Smells sweet and grainy like hooch.
Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing.
-Thomas Paine
Post Reply