Dimroth build

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Steve Broady
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Dimroth build

Post by Steve Broady »

I need a new condenser. I thought I just wanted one, but having tried to use my baby shotgun upside down for reflux, I realized that the 1/4” tubes are so small that they flood and then blow alcohol out everywhere. It works fine as a PC, but I would prefer something with larger passages. Plus, I’m itching to build things, and I have a pile of parts.

The plan is to modify a pair of cocktail shakers. Put a 1.5” ferrule at the top, then cut the bottom off and put a 3” ferrule there. Connect the two together end to end, and put a copper coil inside. Not the simplest or easiest way to get the job done, but I think it would look interesting, and I’m sure I’ll learn something along the way.

Putting the 1.5” ferrule in was a piece of cake. I used part of a tool from BrewHardware.com to press it in with a bench vise.
Image

The 3” ferrule was, frankly, a royal pain in the ass. Wanting a good strong connection as as little dead space as possible for liquid to pool, I didn’t want to just cut the can so that it fit over the OD of the ferrule. I figured I would cut it further down the taper, then use a tool to press the sides straight for the length of the ferrule. Cutting it was easy enough, using a hack saw.

My first plan was to use a can of tomatoes and a sink strainer which, together, have almost exactly the same OD as the ferrule. Just put them in the vise, drive them through from the large end, and then push them back with the ferrule itself. And it would have worked, I think, if not for the fact that stainless steel
Is tough stuff.
B9F3D39F-C048-41E8-A6C3-DEE5A1A0B788.jpeg
Time for plan B. The problem was, I didn’t really have a plan B. The short version of what I ended up doing was to clamp a piece of wood in the vise and use that as a soft anvil to slowly hammer a flare into the small end of the can. Once that was (finally) large enough to accept the ferrule, I filed a bevel all the way around the edge of the ferrule and then carefully pressed it in with the vise. It took a couple tries, and it’s not perfect, but I finally got it.

Once that was soldered, I fluxed and soldered the joint between the top and base of the shaker, since I don’t ever want this thing coming apart again.
5EB4009D-9FB5-4B83-B6A2-BD6B911F891A.jpeg
A little cleanup and it doesn’t look horrible. I’m surprised at how heavy and sturdy it feels, considering how flimsy the cocktail shaker felt.
B9AA96F4-BBB5-40F3-8D4C-30DC1008C4F6.jpeg
It’s not perfect. I can see a few hammer marks, and it’s not perfectly straight. It’ll definitely work for what I’m doing, but hopefully I can do better on the second one. Because I get to do this all again now.

My plan at the moment is to make a double wound copper coil and have both ends come out through holes on either side of the neck, Frankenstein style. I’m on the fence between 1/4” and 3/8” tubing for the coil, and would welcome any advice. The shotgun has 5’ of 1/4” tubing total, so I figure that 10’ of the same coiled up should be more than enough. But then I think about flow rates and the challenges of adapting from 1/4” tubing to 1/2” cam lock, and I think 3/8” might be easier to work with.

I will also make a drain spout for the bottom. That should be simple enough, I hope. But it’ll be a separate piece, clamped on with tri clamps.
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Re: Dimroth build

Post by zach »

I was toying with the same idea a few years back using the cocktail shaker. I wanted more than a reflux condenser as I use LM rigs only.

I built a similar dimroth condenser out of a tri clamp filter I purchased that has 1.5" ends and 4" on the housing.



I have about 15 feet of 1/2" CSST in the longer section for the condenser. ( That's all that would fit)

I soldered a 3/8" half coupling for a liquid takeoff on the bottom of the short section. There is a place for liquid to pool and I added an internal stainless cup with holes in the side to prevent liquid from dropping back down the inlet.

For a little over $100 I have a condenser that can likely knock down 15 or 20 KW.
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Re: Dimroth build

Post by OtisT »

What is your max power? If your max power is 4000W or more I would recommend 3/8” tubing. 1/4” will work if you don’t kink it too much so you get a good flow.

I like the 3/8 because it’s easier to get a descent flow with and they make 3/8 elbow fittings for the sharp turns in the neck of your Dephleg. The elbows make the build a bit easier.

You’ll want a flow potential of about 3.5 to 4 liters per minute to get 100% reflux at 5500w. The length of your tubing used and vapor dwell time could impact the actual max flow you need for 100% reflux.

This is a link to my 4” column dephleg using 3/8” tubing coils. The dual coil, dual flow design is overkill for 5500w, but it was a great learning experience. viewtopic.php?f=17&t=81513

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Re: Dimroth build

Post by Steve Broady »

More time in the shop today means I decided to tackle the second half of this thing. Things did not go as well as I had hoped. Pressing the ferrule into the cap, which went perfectly last time, resulted in a mangled mess this time around. Lesson learned. Use the pull through tool as intended, because the thin lid can’t stand up to the strain of pressing unless you’re really lucky. However, with a little bit of inertial persuasion and percussive repair, I managed to get things into a functional shape again. This is turning out to be harder than I anticipated.

I cut the bottom of the can off, and started trying to beat it into submission, flaring the end out. You can see just how much I’ve flares it here.
E0AAFC81-7CF1-47D9-ACEA-4529D2E02011.jpeg
I also had to file a taper onto the 3” ferrule, to help guide these two parts together.
2B50676D-9F21-4812-A424-9DBD6D05D08C.jpeg
With that done, I was just able to press the ferrule into the can. The open end distorted some, and I probably should have used the top to help hold it, but I didn’t want to assemble that joint just yet. A little light hammering solved the problem well enough.
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And here’s why I didn’t want to assemble that top joint yet. It gave me better access to get flux and solder in. At least this joint soldered nicely, after all the work it took to get to this point.
947F15E4-9BFF-405B-8CB7-CBB862A67638.jpeg
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Re: Dimroth build

Post by Steve Broady »

zach wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:26 am I was toying with the same idea a few years back using the cocktail shaker. I wanted more than a reflux condenser as I use LM rigs only.

I built a similar dimroth condenser out of a tri clamp filter I purchased that has 1.5" ends and 4" on the housing.
If I were going to do it again, I’d probably go the same route. Having something suitable off the shelf makes life a lot easier. I’m possibly saving a little bit of money this way, but not much. I’ve got roughly $40 in materials in this thing already, and I haven’t bought the tubing for the coil yet.

Speaking of which, where did you get your CCST?
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Re: Dimroth build

Post by Steve Broady »

OtisT wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:28 am What is your max power? If your max power is 4000W or more I would recommend 3/8” tubing. 1/4” will work if you don’t kink it too much so you get a good flow.

This is a link to my 4” column dephleg using 3/8” tubing coils. The dual coil, dual flow design is overkill for 5500w, but it was a great learning experience. viewtopic.php?f=17&t=81513

Otis
That’s a beautiful built, Otis! Work like that is part of what inspires me to do better, neater work. Since you found that either coil alone was sufficient for 5500W, do you think that a single coil of similar proportions would be sufficient in my case? It certainly seems that way.

I’m not sure about the max power input. Right now, I’m running on a kitchen stove, so I’m guessing maybe 4000W max. But I’d also like this to be something I can continue to use in the future as my skills and equipment grow, so I don’t know what I’ll be working with down the road. That said, from what I’ve read here 5500W seems likely to be on the high end of what I would attempt, certainly through a 1.5” fitting.

I’ve got a little over 10” of clear space inside this thing when it’s assembled. With that space, and looking at what you built, I’m thinking that a single coil of 15 to 20 turns of 3/8” tubing would work well, with a 3/4” or 1” ID, and have the return run back up to the top on the outside of the coil.
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Re: Dimroth build

Post by zach »

Steve Broady wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:35 am
zach wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:26 am
Speaking of which, where did you get your CCST?
https://www.homedepot.com/p/HOME-FLEX-1 ... lsrc=aw.ds

I also got these fittings for the water :
https://www.homedepot.com/p/HOME-FLEX-1 ... /203073896

I'm still have 10 feet left. I'm planning a wine pre heater for Charentais style still or a wood fired heater for the hot tub.
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Re: Dimroth build

Post by OtisT »

Steve Broady wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:52 am
OtisT wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:28 am What is your max power? If your max power is 4000W or more I would recommend 3/8” tubing. 1/4” will work if you don’t kink it too much so you get a good flow.

This is a link to my 4” column dephleg using 3/8” tubing coils. The dual coil, dual flow design is overkill for 5500w, but it was a great learning experience. viewtopic.php?f=17&t=81513

Otis
That’s a beautiful built, Otis! Work like that is part of what inspires me to do better, neater work. Since you found that either coil alone was sufficient for 5500W, do you think that a single coil of similar proportions would be sufficient in my case? It certainly seems that way.

I’m not sure about the max power input. Right now, I’m running on a kitchen stove, so I’m guessing maybe 4000W max. But I’d also like this to be something I can continue to use in the future as my skills and equipment grow, so I don’t know what I’ll be working with down the road. That said, from what I’ve read here 5500W seems likely to be on the high end of what I would attempt, certainly through a 1.5” fitting.

I’ve got a little over 10” of clear space inside this thing when it’s assembled. With that space, and looking at what you built, I’m thinking that a single coil of 15 to 20 turns of 3/8” tubing would work well, with a 3/4” or 1” ID, and have the return run back up to the top on the outside of the coil.

A stovetop will likely be only 1500W. Even doubling that power, a single 3/8” coil would be fine. 6 or 8 turns would be just fine too. No sense crowding things. And, less coils me and a longer dwell time because there is more volume for vapor. Take a look at Shady’s coil dephleg cap condenser. That is a single coil of what I believe is 3/8” tubing, maybe 7 wraps, and it handles 5500w. If you were using a simple spool rather than that fancy shaker, I would have recommended a build like that for simplicity. I’ll look for Shady’s post and if I find it will edit this post with. Link to it. Otis

Here is that link: viewtopic.php?t=74391
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Re: Dimroth build

Post by BlueSasquatch »

Next time, try using a torch and heating the outside piece. Metal expands when hot, and can be more pliable as well. I drove some SS ferrules like yours into a copper pipe that had practically the same ID/OD. Heating the copper and then using a wood block with a hand-sledge, to drive the ferrule in. Worked well, and was not possible, without heating the outside piece.

Food for thought, interested to see the rest of the build!
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Re: Dimroth build

Post by bcook608 »

BlueSasquatch wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:45 am Next time, try using a torch and heating the outside piece. Metal expands when hot, and can be more pliable as well. I drove some SS ferrules like yours into a copper pipe that had practically the same ID/OD. Heating the copper and then using a wood block with a hand-sledge, to drive the ferrule in. Worked well, and was not possible, without heating the outside piece.

Food for thought, interested to see the rest of the build!
you could even go a step further by putting the ferrule in the freezer and it will shrink slightly. Should make the fitment easier then the solder will flow really easily and make a super strong bond.
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Re: Dimroth build

Post by BlueSasquatch »

bcook608 wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:49 am you could even go a step further by putting the ferrule in the freezer and it will shrink slightly. Should make the fitment easier then the solder will flow really easily and make a super strong bond.
True, I've just rarely have the foresight to freeze something, where heating something up can be done much quicker.
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Re: Dimroth build

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BlueSasquatch wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:45 am Next time, try using a torch and heating the outside piece. Metal expands when hot, and can be more pliable as well.
I didn’t try that for two important reasons:

1. I’ve asked here and been told that stainless does not anneal with heat the way copper and steel do, and can even harden and split. Given that I was already having issues with the thin material buckling, I didn’t want to further complicate matters. And working while hot isn’t practical because, as you may note, my vise is made out of wood. Wood and screaming hot metal or open flames aren’t generally the best combination.

2. I didn’t think of it. At one point, I would have happily tried a giant flamethrower, sledgehammer, explosives, or any other suitably dangerous and destructive device I could find. That’s when I knew it was time to walk away for a bit. :P
BlueSasquatch wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:45 am interested to see the rest of the build!
You and me both! Hopefully I can find some time to tinker with it and get it finished up in the next week or so.

This is turning into another of my creative endeavors which seem to inevitably become far more complicated than they need to be, but from which I generally learn something useful. I can’t claim that this is a good way to do it, but at least it’s hopefully a functional and possibly educational way.
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Re: Dimroth build

Post by shadylane »

Steve Broady wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:40 am
This is turning into another of my creative endeavors which seem to inevitably become far more complicated than they need to be, but from which I generally learn something useful. I can’t claim that this is a good way to do it, but at least it’s hopefully a functional and possibly educational way.
Keep going, the more adversities you overcome, the more experienced you will be. :thumbup:

As to simplicity, all that's needed for a dimroth product condenser is a coiled copper tube, a hose clamp and some copper foil. :ewink:
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Re: Dimroth build

Post by Chauncey »

i just go ape with a grinder, sander, and hammer to make things fit.


;p

for real tho
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Re: Dimroth build

Post by Chauncey »

Also Steve awesome work, can't wait to see er done
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Re: Dimroth build

Post by Steve Broady »

Update time! I got some hobby time today, so while doing a stripping run I decided to play with some copper as well.

I have to say, 3/8” copper tubing is a LOT harder to bend cleanly than I expected. I filled it with salt, tried annealing it (even though I think tubing is sold already annealed), tried a tubing bender, you name it. I damn near gave up on the whole thing because I couldn’t stop kinking the pipe. Finally got it started, and got enough of a clean coil to satisfy myself, but DAMN was that hard work! 6 hours later, my hands are still sore. And I’m not a weak guy by any means. I ended up with 15 turns around a 3/4” copper pipe mandrel, so roughly 7/8” inside diameter. I figure I’ve got roughly 4’ of tubing in the coil. Hopefully that’ll be enough. We shall see.

I had a lot of issues getting everything soldered together and leak free, but I think I’ve got it now. It’s a challenge, working with copper tubing, thin stainless, and very thick stainless all at the same time. It’s pickling in some hot backset at the moment, but I did put it together just to see how it would look and fit, and of course I took pictures! I still need to make the spout, which will happen as soon as the parts arrive.
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Re: Dimroth build

Post by Steve Broady »

More pictures, after cleaning it up. It’s ugly, and I know it. The coil is not centered, but I’m telling myself that will help the vapor interact and condense better. There’s a minor kink at the bottom, but it doesn’t seem to impede the flow too badly. There are plenty of apprentice marks and bits of solder. It looks like an amateur made it, which is fair. An amateur made it.

I’m including the close up internal shot not because I’m proud of it, but just in case anyone wants to know how I plumbed this thing inside. Not that I’d actually suggest that anyone copy this, but I know I’m the sort who wants such details.

It ended up very slightly shorter than my mini shotgun. I wasn’t really thinking about that, but it’s an interesting comparison. Condensing surface area is roughly 65-70 square inches, compared to about 48 square inches for the shotgun.

Once I have spout made, I’ll give it a proper cleaning treatment and see how it works.
Attachments
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Re: Dimroth build

Post by Pure Old Possum Piss »

Steve Broady wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:51 pm More pictures, after cleaning it up. It’s ugly, and I know it. The coil is not centered, but I’m telling myself that will help the vapor interact and condense better. There’s a minor kink at the bottom, but it doesn’t seem to impede the flow too badly. There are plenty of apprentice marks and bits of solder. It looks like an amateur made it, which is fair. An amateur made it.

I’m including the close up internal shot not because I’m proud of it, but just in case anyone wants to know how I plumbed this thing inside. Not that I’d actually suggest that anyone copy this, but I know I’m the sort who wants such details.

It ended up very slightly shorter than my mini shotgun. I wasn’t really thinking about that, but it’s an interesting comparison. Condensing surface area is roughly 65-70 square inches, compared to about 48 square inches for the shotgun.

Once I have spout made, I’ll give it a proper cleaning treatment and see how it works.
It's actually some beautiful work compared to some of my early efforts that I constantly had to seal with biscuit dough or Elmer's Horse Hoof Glue! Lol. :crazy:
I have confidence you can make it make a good drop. Keep us updated.
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Re: Dimroth build

Post by shadylane »

Steve Broady wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:51 pm More pictures, after cleaning it up. It’s ugly, and I know it....

Once I have spout made, I’ll give it a proper cleaning treatment and see how it works.
Looks good to me.

We really appreciate you taking the time, effort and pics :clap:
Here's what you need for your next dimroth build.
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Last edited by shadylane on Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dimroth build

Post by Pure Old Possum Piss »

shadylane wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:00 pm
Steve Broady wrote: Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:51 pm More pictures, after cleaning it up. It’s ugly, and I know it....

Once I have spout made, I’ll give it a proper cleaning treatment and see how it works.
Looks good to me.

We really appreciate you taking the time and effort to document this build. :clap:
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Re: Dimroth build

Post by Steve Broady »

I finally got the spout made. While not technically part of the condenser specifically, I’m really happy with the way it turned out.
1366D39A-4002-400C-9FA7-608DC997A3D6.jpeg
I’m doing the sacrificial run right now, and I’m quite happy with how this thing works. And how it looks!
688AE335-5ED6-42C6-816E-91051EFCD817.jpeg
It can definitely handle far more than I’m capable of throwing at it right now. While I could have done a few things better, or at least differently, I’m pleased with the results.

Now I’ve got plans to build a cooling water control rig, so that I can try using it as a reflux condenser as well. Because, why not?
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Re: Dimroth build

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Doing it different and making it work.
I like it. :thumbup:
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