Worrying Smell From Fermentation

[Cookie]

Hey guys

Yesterday I noticed my 3rd generation of my first UJSM has finished fermenting.
As soon as I opened the lid to my fermenter I immediately noticed that it was smelling quite different to my first two generations.
Originally I thought it was a vomit like smell and did a bit of research on it and figured it was probably a butyric infection.

However, upon smelling it again this morning I believe it is definitely more of a rotten egg smell than a vomit smell.
After a bit of research on this I am a bit confused as to what I should do next.

Should I be ok to run the wash now? Or like with butyric, should I give it a bit more time?

I am also wondering what may have caused the rotten egg smell in the first place?
I understand that it can either come from the strain of yeast you use or a bacteria infection.

I don't believe it was my yeast as I am using standard bakers yeast for UJSM which seems to be pretty common.
Also, the yeast was fine for the first two generations so I believe it must have been infected on this one.

This brings me to my final question of what I should do better to prevent it from happening next time

So far I was not too stressed about sanitizing everything I was using as I figured the corn that I was adding was far from sanitary itself.
I have also heard mixed opinions on how sanitary you need to be throughout fermentation.
some people stress about opening the lid at all and some people don't sanitize a thing.
I figured that since the lid was gonna be open between generations, there wasn't much point in stressing about it too much.
One final way that I believe I may have contaminated it is by mixing the new generation using my hand.
Upon some more research I believe this was a likely cause for contamination.

So I guess my final questions are,

1) Should I give the wash some more time in the fermenter before I run it?
2) Is there any point in running this wash at all, or is it just not worth it?
3) Other than not using my hand to stir the fermenter, Is there a way to keep UJSM completely sanitary or is there no point?

Thanks in advance for any advice and sorry for the long post
Cheers

[Stonecutter]

I keep my ferments fairly sanitary. Basically just rinsing and spraying Starsan on everything that’s used. That rotten egg smell is SO2. A good racking and aeration aught to get rid of it. Paint stirrer on a drill.

[NZChris]

1) Yes.
2) Yes, as long as the still is well designed and has copper where it is necessary for removing sulfides it should be ok. That said, if you haven't stuck to the method and have been adding metabisulfite, removing the SO2 from that might be a problem.

[Cookie]

I keep my ferments fairly sanitary. Basically just rinsing and spraying Starsan on everything that’s used. That rotten egg smell is SO2. A good racking and aeration aught to get rid of it. Paint stirrer on a drill.

thanks for the help, ill be sure to give that a shot

[Cookie]

1) Yes.
2) Yes, as long as the still is well designed and has copper where it is necessary for removing sulfides it should be ok. That said, if you haven't stuck to the method and have been adding metabisulfite, removing the SO2 from that might be a problem.

Hey, thanks for the help. I haven't been adding any metabisulfite luckily. And my still is a pot still with 10ft of 1/2" copper tube as a worm condenser.
Do you think a pot still will work or would a reflux still be more ideal because it has more copper contact?

Cheers for the help again

[NZChris]

A pot still will be fine as long as the copper is where it is needed. I doubt a copper worm would get rid of enough sulfides to fix a problem wash.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 0450.x/pdf

[Cookie]

A pot still will be fine as long as the copper is where it is needed. I doubt a copper worm would get rid of enough sulfides to fix a problem wash.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 0450.x/pdf

Hmm, what other types of condenser would work better? The only other one I am aware of is a shotgun condenser. would that work better?
Also, do you reckon it could be beneficial to run the pot still much slower to increase the time the steam is in contact with the copper worm?
My pot still is only 4L so there really isn't too much output compared to the size of the worm.

or is there anything else that could be better?

Thanks again for the help
Cheers

[NZChris]

The answer is in the document I linked to.

[Saltbush Bill]

I keep my ferments fairly sanitary. Basically just rinsing and spraying Starsan on everything that’s used.

Im quite the opposite , from memory Ive washed my UJSSM fermenters twice in the last ten years and in that time done 80+ generations one
after the other. When I did wash them it was because they had a thick coating of dust , spilled wash and other assorted nasties suck to the outside of them and their screw on lids. Even then they only got a squirt with the garden hose and a quick rub over with a rag.
I may have given them a very quick rinse and rub on the inside with hot water from memory........no fancy sanitizers involved.
In all that time Ive grown a few interesting looking things on the surface of the washes.......but never had any bad smells.
All of that cleaning rigamarole is why I'm a distiller and not a beer brewer.

[Cookie]

The answer is in the document I linked to.

reading it now thanks

[Cookie]

I keep my ferments fairly sanitary. Basically just rinsing and spraying Starsan on everything that’s used.

Im quite the opposite , from memory Ive washed my UJSSM fermenters twice in the last ten years and in that time done 80+ generations one
after the other. When I did wash them it was because they had a thick coating of dust , spilled wash and other assorted nasties suck to the outside of them and their screw on lids. Even then they only got a squirt with the garden hose and a quick rub over with a rag.
I may have given them a very quick rinse and rub on the inside with hot water from memory........no fancy sanitizers involved.
In all that time Ive grown a few interesting looking things on the surface of the washes.......but never had any bad smells.
All of that cleaning rigamarole is why I'm a distiller and not a beer brewer.

ahah sounds like I don't need to stress too much then. Also, do you ever touch anything in the fermenter with your hands like when removing old corn in UJSM or is that a bit too far?

thanks for all the help
Cheers

[Cookie]

The answer is in the document I linked to.

Hey NZChis

from what I understood from that document you linked, the best way to remove sulphur aromas is to have copper in the condenser for the stripping run and to then use a copper boiler for the spirit run.

I don't think it is worth me going out of my way to buy a copper boiler just for this run however I could add some copper olives and other bits of copper to my boiler. do you reckon this could help?

also, I couldn't find anywhere in the article about how the speed of the run would affect things. Do you think a slower run could help?

Thanks for the help, that article was really handy
Cheers

[NZChris]

My research told me to have copper in the boiler and vapor path long ago and is why my SS pot and preheater have copper built into them. My only experience with stinky product coming from SS stills has been when visiting other distillers who hadn't added copper to the boiler and vapor path. I've walked into a distillery in the middle of a run and straight away asked, "have you got any copper in there?", and they had forgotten. I already knew because if the smell.

[Cookie]

My research told me to have copper in the boiler and vapor path long ago and is why my SS pot and preheater have copper built into them. My only experience with stinky product coming from SS stills has been when visiting other distillers who hadn't added copper to the boiler and vapor path. I've walked into a distillery in the middle of a run and straight away asked, "have you got any copper in there?", and they had forgotten. I already knew because if the smell.

Last question I swear, just wondering what you mean by copper "built into" the stainless pot?
Is it like a copper sheet coating the inside?

thanks again

[NZChris]

No. The base and still head is copper.

If I'm doing experiments in small all SS boilers, I add heavy copper wire that is wound into balls. The risers are copper.

[Cookie]

No. The base and still head is copper.

If I'm doing experiments in small all SS boilers, I add heavy copper wire that is wound into balls. The risers are copper.

wicked, thanks

[Ben]

Pure copper scrubbies in the vapor path should help if it's sulfur. Just make them loose and put them in above the boiler. Since you are having a hard time determining if its butyric or sulfur it could be neither or both. Raw grain ferments can have a really peculiar scent.

More time in the fermenter is rarely a bad thing, if it hasn't been exposed to a ton of oxygen let it go a while longer and see if it mellows out, if it is sulfur the yeast will clean a lot of it up. Raise the temp up if you can, put the fermenter near a radiator or heat register, move it to a warmer room etc.