How long will milled grain last in a vacuum bag?
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- Steve Broady
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How long will milled grain last in a vacuum bag?
Since I’m thinking about a decent sized commitment to a single recipe, I’m going to be working with a lot of grain in the near future. However, because of the size of my fermenters and still, I’ve got to break it up into small batches. I’m wondering if I can mill all the grain, weigh it out into individual batch portions, and then store those in vacuum bags. I did a search and found a few references to the benefits of vacuum storage, but not to anyone storing milled grain. Milled grain will absorb moisture, but I imagine that the bag would prevent that being a problem.
The plan would be to mill everything for a batch of bourbon, roughly 80 lbs of grain total. Keep the corn separate, since it needs to be gelatinized at a higher temperature than everything else, but weigh out 10 portions and vacuum bag them. Then mill the rest of the grain bill, measure out the right quantities of everything, and then bag those together. That way I could just spend a few hours one day doing all of my milling and measuring, after which I can just grab a pre-measured bag and start mashing when the opportunity arises.
If it matters, the malts I am using were purchased already milled, but I’ll probably mill it finer. I haven’t bought my corn yet, but after an issue with weevils in whole corn, I’ll buy cracked corn in the future, and mill it finer before mashing.
I’m wondering if this is a viable idea. Realistically, I suspect that I might go at most a year between the first and last batch, hopefully a lot less. The bags would be stored in air tight containers indoors, so I’m not worried about mice. I could potentially store some of them in the freezer as well, though it’s rather full already at the moment. Would there be much (any?) quality lost over that time? Or would I be better off just milling as I go?
The plan would be to mill everything for a batch of bourbon, roughly 80 lbs of grain total. Keep the corn separate, since it needs to be gelatinized at a higher temperature than everything else, but weigh out 10 portions and vacuum bag them. Then mill the rest of the grain bill, measure out the right quantities of everything, and then bag those together. That way I could just spend a few hours one day doing all of my milling and measuring, after which I can just grab a pre-measured bag and start mashing when the opportunity arises.
If it matters, the malts I am using were purchased already milled, but I’ll probably mill it finer. I haven’t bought my corn yet, but after an issue with weevils in whole corn, I’ll buy cracked corn in the future, and mill it finer before mashing.
I’m wondering if this is a viable idea. Realistically, I suspect that I might go at most a year between the first and last batch, hopefully a lot less. The bags would be stored in air tight containers indoors, so I’m not worried about mice. I could potentially store some of them in the freezer as well, though it’s rather full already at the moment. Would there be much (any?) quality lost over that time? Or would I be better off just milling as I go?
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Re: How long will milled grain last in a vacuum bag?
It will store better if you dont mill it.
I can run about 18 pounds of grain through my Hullwrecker in about 10 minutes using a cordless drill. If you're going to take that long to use it. mill it as you use it.
I can run about 18 pounds of grain through my Hullwrecker in about 10 minutes using a cordless drill. If you're going to take that long to use it. mill it as you use it.
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Re: How long will milled grain last in a vacuum bag?
Most things I have read for brewing recommend using milled grain within about 3 months at most. if you put it in the freezer that would stretch it out longer. Vacuum sealed and in a freezer I would feel perfectly good keeping it for a year. But it would be better to mill it as you need it.
Sounds like time to get that 55 gal pickle barrel for a fermenter.
Sounds like time to get that 55 gal pickle barrel for a fermenter.
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Re: How long will milled grain last in a vacuum bag?
Grain is best stored in liquid form (which by the way also keeps oit the weevils)..
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Re: How long will milled grain last in a vacuum bag?
At room temp it will last till any insect eggs hatch. In the freezer long enough. Purged with nitrogen even longer.
I don't know how long newly hatched insects will last in a vacuum bag because that's not a perfect vacuum.
I don't know how long newly hatched insects will last in a vacuum bag because that's not a perfect vacuum.
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Re: How long will milled grain last in a vacuum bag?
+1.subbrew wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:20 pm Most things I have read for brewing recommend using milled grain within about 3 months at most. if you put it in the freezer that would stretch it out longer. Vacuum sealed and in a freezer I would feel perfectly good keeping it for a year. But it would be better to mill it as you need it.
I keep my grains in a spare chest freezer. Works great.
ss
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My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K
Re: How long will milled grain last in a vacuum bag?
+1jonnys_spirit wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 7:36 pm Grain is best stored in liquid form (which by the way also keeps oit the weevils)..
Cheers!
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Re: How long will milled grain last in a vacuum bag?
This is what I do for brewing beer. I don't like storing ground grains at all. The small amount of time it takes to grind, it is not worth it to use degraded grains.Deplorable wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 6:41 pm It will store better if you dont mill it.
I can run about 18 pounds of grain through my Hullwrecker in about 10 minutes using a cordless drill. If you're going to take that long to use it. mill it as you use it.
A day or two may not matter much, but a month, IMO, is too long.
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Re: How long will milled grain last in a vacuum bag?
Thanks for the advice, guys. Since I’m reasonably confident that my malt and flaked rye and oats won’t have bugs in them, I’ll portion out and vacuum bag that. When I buy my corn, I’ll probably go ahead and measure and bag it as well, then store it in the freezer. A bunch of smaller bags will be easier to fit than one large bag. Then on mashing day, I’ll grind just what I need for that batch.
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Re: How long will milled grain last in a vacuum bag?
Steve Broady wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 8:10 am
When I buy my corn, I’ll probably go ahead and measure and bag it as well, then store it in the freezer.
Depending on the amount of sun/shade you have on your house, don't rule out the attic during the winter months. I've kept several hundred pounds of grain in metal trash cans in my attic from Fall 'til Spring.
________________
I drank fifty pounds of feed-store corn
'till my clothes were ratty and torn
I drank fifty pounds of feed-store corn
'till my clothes were ratty and torn
Re: How long will milled grain last in a vacuum bag?
Kirby or Electrolux? (sorry I had to say that)Steve Broady wrote: ↑Sun Dec 04, 2022 6:17 pm Since I’m thinking about a decent sized commitment to a single recipe, I’m going to be working with a lot of grain in the near future. However, because of the size of my fermenters and still, I’ve got to break it up into small batches. I’m wondering if I can mill all the grain, weigh it out into individual batch portions, and then store those in vacuum bags. I did a search and found a few references to the benefits of vacuum storage, but not to anyone storing milled grain. Milled grain will absorb moisture, but I imagine that the bag would prevent that being a problem.
The plan would be to mill everything for a batch of bourbon, roughly 80 lbs of grain total. Keep the corn separate, since it needs to be gelatinized at a higher temperature than everything else, but weigh out 10 portions and vacuum bag them. Then mill the rest of the grain bill, measure out the right quantities of everything, and then bag those together. That way I could just spend a few hours one day doing all of my milling and measuring, after which I can just grab a pre-measured bag and start mashing when the opportunity arises.
If it matters, the malts I am using were purchased already milled, but I’ll probably mill it finer. I haven’t bought my corn yet, but after an issue with weevils in whole corn, I’ll buy cracked corn in the future, and mill it finer before mashing.
I’m wondering if this is a viable idea. Realistically, I suspect that I might go at most a year between the first and last batch, hopefully a lot less. The bags would be stored in air tight containers indoors, so I’m not worried about mice. I could potentially store some of them in the freezer as well, though it’s rather full already at the moment. Would there be much (any?) quality lost over that time? Or would I be better off just milling as I go?
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Re: How long will milled grain last in a vacuum bag?
Kirby, although my wife doesn’t like it. She says it’s too heavy.
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Re: How long will milled grain last in a vacuum bag?
Steve Broady wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 5:42 pmKirby, although my wife doesn’t like it. She says it’s too heavy. <— What she’s really saying is, “honey, will YOU do the vacuuming for me?”
My LM/VM & Potstill: My build thread
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K
Re: How long will milled grain last in a vacuum bag?
still_stirrin wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 10:23 pmSteve Broady wrote: ↑Mon Dec 05, 2022 5:42 pmKirby, although my wife doesn’t like it. She says it’s too heavy. <— What she’s really saying is, “honey, will YOU do the vacuuming for me?”
I don't drink alcohol, I drink distilled spirits.
Therefore I'm not a alcoholic, I'm spiritual.
Therefore I'm not a alcoholic, I'm spiritual.
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Re: How long will milled grain last in a vacuum bag?
On the subject of vacuum bagging grain, I just measured out a bunch of batches of bourbon.
I now have pre-measured bourbon kits ready for the next time I start a batch. And hopefully no risk if another weevil infestation.
To my original question, I’ve done this before on a smaller scale, and so far (almost a year later) have had no issues. This is the first time I’ve tried the resealable bags, but hopefully they’ll be as successful.
After reading some reviews on Amazon, I opted for the Space Saver brand bags. I used regular culinary bags for the malts, and then the large bags to hold the corn and malt. I already had an attachment for the vacuum sealer which made it easy to pull a vacuum on the bags.I now have pre-measured bourbon kits ready for the next time I start a batch. And hopefully no risk if another weevil infestation.
To my original question, I’ve done this before on a smaller scale, and so far (almost a year later) have had no issues. This is the first time I’ve tried the resealable bags, but hopefully they’ll be as successful.
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Re: How long will milled grain last in a vacuum bag?
As an old HVAC guy, pull the deepest vacuum you can. Break the vacuum with dry nitrogen and pull the vacuum again. Seal. Bugs should not do well with no oxygen.
Kevin
Re: How long will milled grain last in a vacuum bag?
Dang, that reminds me, I have a 5 gallon bucket of ground corn sealed up in the basement. I will have to check it tomorrow and see if it is still good. I bet it has been there 6 mo. I need to label it if there is a next time.
I don't drink alcohol, I drink distilled spirits.
Therefore I'm not a alcoholic, I'm spiritual.
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Re: How long will milled grain last in a vacuum bag?
so what happens if the grains are older? Is it just a concern for bugs?
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Re: How long will milled grain last in a vacuum bag?
Nope. Weevils will eat “old grains” just as voraciously as “fresh grains”. But, the larvae are usually existent in fresh grains, while old grains will be crawling with live weevils. And remember, they too lay eggs which will hatch in time, conditions withstanding.
I like to keep my grains bagged and stored in the chest freezer. It kills the bugs, live and larvae, as well as keeps the grains fresher. I take them out when I measure a batch to brew. If you can’t store them in a cool, dry place, the freezer works well. Grains can get stale over time especially if they’re in a semi-humid environment.
Also, enzyme power will degrade with time and temperature. Something to consider.
ss
My LM/VM & Potstill: My build thread
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
My stock pot gin still: stock pot potstill
My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K
Re: How long will milled grain last in a vacuum bag?
so if the enzyme powder degrades then full conversion will be harder, right?still_stirrin wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 8:46 pmNope. Weevils will eat “old grains” just as voraciously as “fresh grains”. But, the larvae are usually existent in fresh grains, while old grains will be crawling with live weevils. And remember, they too lay eggs which will hatch in time, conditions withstanding.
I like to keep my grains bagged and stored in the chest freezer. It kills the bugs, live and larvae, as well as keeps the grains fresher. I take them out when I measure a batch to brew. If you can’t store them in a cool, dry place, the freezer works well. Grains can get stale over time especially if they’re in a semi-humid environment.
Also, enzyme power will degrade with time and temperature. Something to consider.
ss
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Re: How long will milled grain last in a vacuum bag?
As enzymes age, they'll lose their strength. Meaning either less conversion for the same time, or longer for full conversion. You can generally compensate by using more.
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Re: How long will milled grain last in a vacuum bag?
That's what I was thinking, starch lasts almost forever but the protein enzymes degrade with time.NormandieStill wrote: ↑Wed Nov 15, 2023 5:26 am As enzymes age, they'll lose their strength. Meaning either less conversion for the same time, or longer for full conversion. You can generally compensate by using more.
For a beer brewer, freshness is absolutely needed for beer.
Distillers have slightly different needs.
Re: How long will milled grain last in a vacuum bag?
I would agree with that, Shady.
I also will say this, as a long term homebrewer. If properly stored and sealed, brewing grains will last significantly longer than what popular opinion will lead you to believe, and still taste nice. Consider that much of the shelf life statistics we hear come from the source of the food item, usually a company who would profit from you refreshing your supply.
Having said that, I also believe it makes sense to use the freshest ingredients you have available for making food items, whether they be for dinner or distillation. I just don't think your grain will magically stop being good at some arbitrary expiration date.
I also will say this, as a long term homebrewer. If properly stored and sealed, brewing grains will last significantly longer than what popular opinion will lead you to believe, and still taste nice. Consider that much of the shelf life statistics we hear come from the source of the food item, usually a company who would profit from you refreshing your supply.
Having said that, I also believe it makes sense to use the freshest ingredients you have available for making food items, whether they be for dinner or distillation. I just don't think your grain will magically stop being good at some arbitrary expiration date.