Pintoshine 12 gallon build. Questions!

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stillanoob
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Pintoshine 12 gallon build. Questions!

Post by stillanoob »

Hi All,

First post aside from my introduction. A friend and I are starting work on a pintoshine 12 gallon. The copper is on the way but won't be here until 9/9 so before it gets here we wanted to do a little practice before butching up a sheet of copper. I had a piece of .025 copper, unsure what alloy. The piece wasn't quite big enough for a full size bottom cap but bigger than the top cap. We decided to put about a 5/16" rim/edge on it. It came out OK for a first attempt.
fustcap.jpg
In pintoshine's videos he makes the sides 90 degrees. But of course a frustum is a cone and so is does not have a 90 degree angle. It seems that it would be best for the cap to have whatever angle the frustum does. Otherwise there will be a gap where cap and frustum meet. Here is a crude drawing of what I mean.
frustpaint.png
frustpaint.png (2.82 KiB) Viewed 7431 times
We made a little tool with about a 10 degree angle to it and we can change the angle. How does pintoshine deal with this? Does riveting it deal with the gap? His videos don't show that part.

Thanks in advance. Be warned we have a million questions!
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Bushman
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Re: Pintoshine 12 gallon build. Questions!

Post by Bushman »

If I am understanding your question I believe if all the measurements in the layout are correct then when rolling the copper to shape should create the angle needed. I have those plans for both a 6 and 12 gallon still. Haven’t built either but I use a software that allows me to draw in 3D and then from the 3D drawing do a rollout to 2D this gives me the exact shape I am looking for minus the tabs for soldering it together. I have done the layout on cardboard and it seems to match up nicely.
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Re: Pintoshine 12 gallon build. Questions!

Post by stillanoob »

Thanks for the reply!

Pint's video clearly shows and talks about making the lip or edge of the cap at 90 degrees:



In the next video you can see the pan still has a 90 degree seam edge as he fits the frustum.



And that just doesn't make sense to me. Why 90 degrees and not the angle of the frustum?
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Re: Pintoshine 12 gallon build. Questions!

Post by The Baker »

Exactly what I have been looking for.
I have an old copper fire extinguisher that I might use as a 'whisky dome'. (Is that what they call them?).

Anyway someone has taken a hatchet to the top so I cut all that off and now I need to fabricate a new end. Seven inches across. So that 'tray' should do the job. Only cost me five dollars Australian....

Geoff
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Re: Pintoshine 12 gallon build. Questions!

Post by HDNB »

i never built one of these, but that pan seems to me to be the bottom of the boiler, which will have a vertical cylinder attached to it at 90*, the frustum would be on top of that cylinder to reduce the boiler sides to the lyne arm...and yes, matching the angles at that point would make sense to me... but like i said, i never built one...just watched that video for 20 seconds or so.

maybe some paper and scissors and tape for a mock up while you wait for the copper would be a good place to start?
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now i drink for evil.
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Re: Pintoshine 12 gallon build. Questions!

Post by stillanoob »

Definitely doing a mock up. We got a full size print made. Can't complain with $7 to print out a 36" by 56" single sheet copy. We'll get a couple more to transfer onto the copper when it arrives. I might flatten out the cap we made then re-make it with a larger (wider) edge set to the correct angle. Just for practice.
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Re: Pintoshine 12 gallon build. Questions!

Post by Bushman »

Rather than pay for additional printouts, use this to trace a cut pattern on thin cardboard and then do your mock up.
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Re: Pintoshine 12 gallon build. Questions!

Post by stillanoob »

We may well do that, although I don't want any of my tracing errors to be passed down stream to the actual copper. I live about 40 minutes from the nearest town with a 36" printer so I will probably get an extra copy just in case we screw up. I wouldn't want to have to go into town for another copy.

Ordering a ton of stuff in order to be ready when the copper gets here. I sure hope it shows up undamaged. The nearest place I can walk into and get a decent deal on copper is 2.5 hours away.
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Re: Pintoshine 12 gallon build. Questions!

Post by stillanoob »

Getting together all the bits and pieces I need to get working. Won't have everything until next week, one of the few disadvantages of living out in the sticks.

A couple of questions though. When constructing a bottom frustum, is it better to have the bottom cap inside the frustum or outside of the frustum? I can see where it would be easier in a way to put the cap inside the frustum because then one could tap it down in place. As long as the frustum was a little smaller it seems like you could make sure you got a good fit that way.

On the other hand, from a structural point of view it seems like having the cap outside the frustum would be better. Any opinions?

Another question, does one usually rivet through the seam of the frustum where it meets the cap? Meaning going through all three layers, the seam of the frustum and the cap.

Thanks!
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Soft batch
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Re: Pintoshine 12 gallon build. Questions!

Post by Soft batch »

I've made a couple of these - one with a Welsh seam and one riveted. I put my bottom outside the frustum. I also did not rivet near the bottom cap.
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Re: Pintoshine 12 gallon build. Questions!

Post by stillanoob »

Thanks for the reply. I decided to put my test cap outside my test cylinder wall. I did a cylinder because I didn't have enough scrap copper laying around to do a frustum. Over all, I think it came out OK for a first attempt.
testcap2.jpg
testcap1.jpg
I sure have a lot to learn. My rivets were too close to the bottom to really be able to peen them correctly. In the real build the seams are wider so that should be easier. I have about four hours into that cap so a long way to go to get up to speed. It is holding water though!

Copper arrives next week. I sure hope it comes undamaged. I need to do some more practice pieces but I am pretty much out of copper.
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Re: Pintoshine 12 gallon build. Questions!

Post by stillanoob »

It's been a while since my last post. My friend and I can only get together once a week, so progress has been a little slow. However, we have gotten the bottom frustum done and it came out pretty well for a first attempt.
20191018_091440_resized.jpg
You can see some solder boogers and I can break out the solder gun and get rid of some of them.
20191018_091505_resized.jpg
Not the prettiest solder job.
20191018_091428_resized.jpg
Overall though, I am very happy with how it turned out. It holds water! Next week we should get the top frustum and collar done. The joint between the two frustums is what I am thinking about now. It "seams" (haha, see what I did there?) to be at least two choices for how to overlap the two frustums. I don't know if my lame ascii art will show what I mean. Ok, the ascii art didn't work, so here is a paint rendering.
Untitled.png
Untitled.png (7.43 KiB) Viewed 6997 times
From the video, it seems that pint does the first kind. However, to me that seems hard to do, I guess you place the top frustum on the bottom frustum and then start hammering your way around. You can't use pliers and pinch a seam like you do with the bottom because then it wouldn't fit on. So you would just have to start hammering it over. And you would want your flux on there as once you start you can't remove the top cap any more, which strikes me as messy.

So I think I lean towards the second method. The advantage there is that you can get it as you like it, being able to take it off and on. Once you are happy with it, apply flux and start riveting.

I'd really love to hear some opinions and advice. It would be nice to feel a little more confident about which method to choose.
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Soft batch
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Re: Pintoshine 12 gallon build. Questions!

Post by Soft batch »

I used your second option - the problems I had in doing so is there were a couple wrinkles in the copper, both on the top and bottom because you are making a smaller diameter circle. The first one I made I ended up cutting a slit every inch around, then overlapping slightly when soldering - in hindsight it might have been easier to make a small V instead of the slit.

The second one I made was smaller in diameter and I made a form out of plywood that I used to form the seam angles before assembling. Much easier than cutting slits and bending with pliers!
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Re: Pintoshine 12 gallon build. Questions!

Post by stillanoob »

Been a while since I posted on this project. Progress has been slow, mostly because it is tough for me and my friend to find days we can both work. We have got the pot complete! It holds water and doesn't look too bad.
20200103_154908_resized.jpg
20200103_154854_resized.jpg
Finally gaining some skills working the copper, the collar to pot joint came out really nice. We over (or maybe under) lapped the seams and it is the best three layer section we have done. We also have gotten the Lyne arm shaped but not yet riveted and soldered. I am coming to enjoy riveting and the pot feels really strong.

The top cap is going to be the greatest challenge yet. I am leaning towards cutting the hole in the cap frustum BEFORE shaping it into a cone. But then it will be weak and soft while rolling and I am worried about kinking it there. Any opinions?

Also still pondering the angle to put the Lyne arm at. We will be making mostly brandies and so a slight downward angle seems most appropriate. BUT a professional distiller I know who makes outstanding spirits, including an apple brandy which is the best I have ever had and exactly what I aspire to, recommends a slight upwards angle for a little reflux. I would REALLY like some thoughts on this!

Thanks!
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Re: Pintoshine 12 gallon build. Questions!

Post by stillanoob »

Hi All,

As is the way it goes, it has again been awhile since my last post on this project. However we did make some progress yesterday. The cap and Lyne arm are done and I think it came out somewhere between "it ain't pretty but it works" and "Awesome!". :lol: I am really happy with how the lyne arm to cap seam came out. The rivets make it really strong.
20200206_150430_resized.jpg

20200206_150448_resized.jpg
This weekend I will clean it. The solder isn't as sloppy as it looks, a lot of what you see is just flux. I think it will look nice once it is polished up. Next is coiling the worm. We started but soon realized we need some 5/8", 90 fittings to solder on the ends of the worm as there was no way we were getting the bend we need without kinking. However, the wrapping of the turns came out well. The flake stand is ready to install the worm in once it is done. So, with any luck we will be doing a vinegar run next week.
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Re: Pintoshine 12 gallon build. Questions!

Post by Soft batch »

Looking good!
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Re: Pintoshine 12 gallon build. Questions!

Post by The Baker »

stillanoob wrote: Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:37 pm Thanks for the reply. I decided to put my test cap outside my test cylinder wall. I did a cylinder because I didn't have enough scrap copper laying around to do a frustum. Over all, I think it came out OK for a first attempt.

testcap2.jpg

testcap1.jpg

I sure have a lot to learn. My rivets were too close to the bottom to really be able to peen them correctly. In the real build the seams are wider so that should be easier. I have about four hours into that cap so a long way to go to get up to speed. It is holding water though!

Copper arrives next week. I sure hope it comes undamaged. I need to do some more practice pieces but I am pretty much out of copper.
probably gone by now but that would make a nice, rustic sweet dish.

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Re: Pintoshine 12 gallon build. Questions!

Post by Yummyrum »

OMG ... that is a sweet still you built there stillanoob..... ( insert solute imojy)

You and your mate have nailed it :thumbup:
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Re: Pintoshine 12 gallon build. Questions!

Post by stillanoob »

Thanks guys! I am pretty happy with it. I'll be happier when some spirits start dripping out the end of it! I thought this was supposed to be the easy, cheap way to get free alcohol? Doesn't seem like it so far...

Here is an extra picture of the Lyne arm to cap seam. I still can't believe how easy is copper is to work. If a couple of ham fisted rednecks like me and my pal can do it, anybody can!
UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_243ec.jpeg
I started cleaning the cap and it is going to take some elbow grease. Vinegar and salt help but there is quite a bit of annealing tarnish to remove. And of course, the vinegar instantly turns the silver solder black. So then I'll have to break out the baking soda to clean that up.

Thanks again for the encouragement!
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Re: Pintoshine 12 gallon build. Questions!

Post by Bushman »

Looks solid, I bet that is going to shine up nicely!
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Re: Pintoshine 12 gallon build. Questions!

Post by HDNB »

Nice build. you were asking for advise a couple times. I think you should be giving advice.

You are going to to really enjoy making some hootch with her, low and slow all grain and you're in for a treat!
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Re: Pintoshine 12 gallon build. Questions!

Post by stillanoob »

Thanks folks, I sure am glad to have a place where I can ask for advice and share my work. Geoff, I did keep that first cap test and you are right, I should find a use for it in the house!
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Re: Pintoshine 12 gallon build. Questions!

Post by Fredistiller »

Nice job! I'm eager to see this when it's polished :clap:
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Re: Pintoshine 12 gallon build. Questions!

Post by stillanoob »

Thanks Fred! Sadly, I never did give it a really good polish. It has been pressed into service instead. But it seems to work just fine that way. Someday I hope to be able to work copper as you do.
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Re: Pintoshine 12 gallon build. Questions!

Post by Truckinbutch »

I am very much impressed .
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Don't drink water , fish fornicate in it .
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Re: Pintoshine 12 gallon build. Questions!

Post by stillanoob »

Thanks TB! We had a blast making it and are having even more fun running it.
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Re: Pintoshine 12 gallon build. Questions!

Post by Saltbush Bill »

That's a really nice job....something to be proud of.
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Re: Pintoshine 12 gallon build. Questions!

Post by Truckinbutch »

stillanoob wrote: Mon May 04, 2020 8:38 pm Thanks TB! We had a blast making it and are having even more fun running it.
Yep , that running part is where the efforts are rewarded .
You run like you build (and I'm sure you will) and you are going to have a great drop .
If you ain't the lead dog in the team , the scenery never changes . Ga Flatwoods made my avatar and I want to thank him for that .
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Re: Pintoshine 12 gallon build. Questions!

Post by stillanoob »

Thanks SB. And Truckin, none of it would have been possible without this site. Firstly, Pint's plans are perfect, everything fit right. Just print it out and cut it out. If anyone knows the guy, tell him I am grateful. Anybody out there with a hankering to build their own copper still, go for it! With basic tools and help from the folks here you can do it.

And then all the helpful folks and knowledge here are giving us a huge jump start on making a decent drop. Last Sunday we ran the second stripping run of some sweetfeed from the TNT recipes and are going to do four generations of it and then do a spirit run. After that we have 10 gallons of apple cider that we made last fall to run. Apple brandy is the main reason I wanted to make a still in the first place.

After that, I want to try to do enough Honey Bear Bourbon to fill a 5 gallon barrel. And makes some wineo's sugar wash for limoncello and pantydroppers. It's gonna be a busy summer.

Thanks again to all on this forum.
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Re: Pintoshine 12 gallon build. Questions!

Post by Bigvalveturbo »

anyone know how to scale this up to 25 gallons?
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