PuckJunkie's Build

[PuckJunkie76]

Hello Everyone!!
This is essentially my first post, but I've been lurking, reading, and envying your builds. I'm planning to build a keg still. I want to keep it pretty simple. I love the old style copper stills and want to eventually build one, but before I spend the money on sheets of copper, I figured I would get the process down and I can build a shotgun condenser to work on my copper skills. I made wine for several years so I have that experience to get me started. I plan on running propane off a deep fryer burner initially.

I just started the condenser a couple days ago. 2" copper (undecided at the moment on length...either 20" or 22" with 5 - 1/2" vapor tubes). I annealed and flattened 1 1/2" couplers to make the end plates and baffles. I've read space baffles according to the diameter of the casing along the length, but I'm probably only going to go with 5 or 6 baffles. I'm also undecided about the water fittings. I will likely be using a sump pump in a rubbermaid tub or trash can as this will be run at my property which does not have a well yet. I figured I would monitor the water temp and toss a bag of ice in every so often to maintain. I'm open to suggestions! I've attached a couple pictures showing what I have so far and playing with the fit after sizing. Thank you I'm advance for any advice and suggestions.... Looking forward to getting this built and making a first run!!

Puck

[Sporacle]

That looks very well fitted up, nice work.
If I could offer one piece of advice is to drill your inlet and outlet before you fit your tubes, I very nearly had a catastrophic failure because I drilled my holes after I had the tubes and end caps soldered on and then drilled my holes.
Just nicked one of my tubes with the drill bit.
Good luck with your build

[Twisted Brick]

Most shotty users incorporate a ferrule on the vapor end to attach to the lyne arm and another ferrule on the distillate end to accommodate a collector/reducer. Ferrules also make for easy access/cleaning the vapor tubes of tails oils that accumulate over a number of runs (despite rinsing).

Just a heads up, installing an even number of baffles will place your I/O coolant ports on opposite sides of the shell.

[PuckJunkie76]

Hi TB... I've been admiring your shotty... Yes, I will be adding SS ferrules...I was just checking the end caps for fit. I was advised to get ferrules that fit the OD of the 2" but I prefer the look of the inside fit. Plus I wanted my end caps butted up against the inner lip of the ferrules. Thank you alot for the advice on the baffles ..I hadn't even considered that!!

PJ

Most shotty users incorporate a ferrule on the vapor end to attach to the lyne arm and another ferrule on the distillate end to accommodate a collector/reducer. Ferrules also make for easy access/cleaning the vapor tubes of tails oils that accumulate over a number of runs (despite rinsing).

Just a heads up, installing an even number of baffles will place your I/O coolant ports on opposite sides of the shell.

[PuckJunkie76]

Appreciate the advice Sporacle...I had read that and was definitely planning on drilling them prior. Thanks!!

That looks very well fitted up, nice work.
If I could offer one piece of advice is to drill your inlet and outlet before you fit your tubes, I very nearly had a catastrophic failure because I drilled my holes after I had the tubes and end caps soldered on and then drilled my holes.
Just nicked one of my tubes with the drill bit.
Good luck with your build

[subbrew]

I will likely be using a sump pump in a rubbermaid tub or trash can as this will be run at my property which does not have a well yet. I figured I would monitor the water temp and toss a bag of ice in every so often to maintain. I'm open to suggestions!

I use a 55 gallon blue barrel with the top cut out as my water reservoir. Use a small pond pump to move it. Probably have 40 to 45 gallons in it. That is plenty to cool a 13 gallon charge in a keg boiler, either spirit or stripping run. I reuse the same water all season. Of course I am far enough north that I have had to break a little ice to put the pump in, so the water is starting cold. But I have done early fall runs with the same set up. The water got up to hot bath water temp but it still knocked down everything.

[PuckJunkie76]

Thank You Subbrew!!
That sounds perfect. So, if I put 5 or 6 bags of ice in it to start, I should be good for a run? I'm also trying to decide what fittings and valves I should go with. Am thinking 3/8 or 1/2 female hose fittings and put a needle valve on the intake hose.. do I need a valve of some sort on the out as well?

I will likely be using a sump pump in a rubbermaid tub or trash can as this will be run at my property which does not have a well yet. I figured I would monitor the water temp and toss a bag of ice in every so often to maintain. I'm open to suggestions!

I use a 55 gallon blue barrel with the top cut out as my water reservoir. Use a small pond pump to move it. Probably have 40 to 45 gallons in it. That is plenty to cool a 13 gallon charge in a keg boiler, either spirit or stripping run. I reuse the same water all season. Of course I am far enough north that I have had to break a little ice to put the pump in, so the water is starting cold. But I have done early fall runs with the same set up. The water got up to hot bath water temp but it still knocked down everything.

[Sporacle]

Don't mean to jump in on Subbrew, I use 1/2 inch on mine.
Personally a simple ball valve will work for water flow, a needle is preferred for a dephlegmator but I don't think it's required on a shotgun PC.
Valve on the inlet or outlet will get you many different opinions, I run inlet.
Two valves will work against each other and theoretically do a worse job than a single valve, unless you have a massive inlet pressure and are using the initial valve as a pressure reducing valve and the second to fine tune flow.
Just gate the valve until you get a temperature gradient and the return water is hot.
Make sure it returns gently to your barrel at the top and your pick up is at the bottom (I think thats the right way round)

[subbrew]

Sporacle said all I would on valves. My pump has a ball valve on it and I slide the hose on the copper and use a hose clamp for a connection. But real connections and valves would be nicer.
As for the ice I am sure that would work. In the fall my water would have started in the mid 50s for temp. So if you are starting there I doubt you will need ice. I don't have experience if you are starting at 80. But even 60-65 degree water, and you fill the barrel so you have max volume should work without ice. The product will come off warm by the end of the run but that won't hurt anything.

the math: specific heat of vaporization of water 970 BTU/lb, specific heat of vaporization of ethanol 394 BTU/lb, specific heat capacity of water 1 BTU/lb, specific heat capacity of ethanol .6 BTU/lb and assumption both water and ethanol are 8 lb/gal (close enough for this)
So if you are collecting from a spirit run and you get 3 gallons at 33% ABV, so you have condensed 2 gallons of water and 1 gallon of ethanol - to condense = ((2 gal X 8 lb per gallon)X970 BTU/lb)+((1 gal X 8 lb/gal) x 394 Btu/LB) = 18672 BTU So with 45 gallons of water you will raise the temp 18672 BTU/(45 x8x1btu/lb/F)= 51 F rise in temp. You also want to cool that condensate from about 175 F condensed temp to say 80 f average that is (95 Delta F X 2 gal X 8 lb per gal X 1 BTU per lb) + ( 95 delta F X 1 gal x 8 lb per gal X .6 Btu / lb ) = 1976 BTU so for 45 gallon again = 5.5 F temp rise. So total is say 57 @ increase in temp Starting at 60 will give almost 120 degree water at the end and you will not get to the 80 condensate temp.

Latent heat of melting water ice is 144 btu/lb. So 10 lb bag of ice melted will cool 45 gal of water 1440 / 45 / 8 = 4 degrees. You can determine how many bags of ice you want to add.

[PuckJunkie76]

Thank you both for the excellent advice and insight!! Waiting on some ferrules to come in so I made the spout that will clamp to the end of my shotgun in order to practice my soldering... it's been many years since I did any soldering and it didn't have to be pretty. I'm also making a couple more baffles in order to have an odd number internally. Also decided to go with 3/8" to 1/2" female hose fittings instead of straight half. I read someone say they could actually go down to 1/4"

[PuckJunkie76]

Practice fit

I radiused the fitting to the shell

[PuckJunkie76]

Need some advice on the best way to solder the ferrules to the DWV pipe taking the gap produced by the thinner wall into consideration.

[StillerBoy]

the DWV pipe taking the gap produced by the thinner wall into consideration

I fill the gap using some thin wire..

Mars

[PuckJunkie76]

That's all the wire you use? No issues with the solder filling the rest without running out?

I fill the gap using some thin wire..

Mars

[StillerBoy]

Yeah that all I use.. the only time I have issues is if I rush the heating up phase.. where is it going the run out.. it's held tightly in place by the wires and against the ferrule..

Mars

[PuckJunkie76]

You're soldering from the outside correct? Against the flange?

Yeah that all I use.. the only time I have issues is if I rush the heating up phase.. where is it going the run out.. it's held tightly in place by the wires and against the ferrule..

Mars

[StillerBoy]

No.. from the inside..

Mars

[PuckJunkie76]

Then how do you solder in the endplates with vapor tubes?

No.. from the inside..

Mars

[Twisted Brick]

I only use Type L pipe for members' shotties/pots, but a while back was toying with some DWV to make a lightweight pot riser for a friend. I wasn't happy with the wire method (runs) so went with plan B. After cutting a ring (5/8" I think it was) off the end of the DWV pipe, I inserted it into the pipe and trimmed off the overlap. As you can see I cut off too much but it later filled with solder nicely. I used vice-grips to clamp the trimmed ring inside the end of the DWV and soldered it up. Lastly, I used my grinding burr to ream out the ID to accept the ferrule and Bob's yer uncle. It took about 30min for each ferrule, but that included a beer break. Very strong, no gaps, minimal solder and no runs.

The ferrules soldered in just like Type L pipe, but you might have some challenges with your endplates since they have no flanges. Maybe you can report back with your results.

[StillerBoy]

Then how do you solder in the endplates with vapor tubes?

I first solder the baffles and end plate as a unit, then slide the assembly into the tube, and butt end the ferrule to the end plate..

I now use brass ferrules (SD) and do the same.. much easier with brass ferrules as the ferrule slide on top of the tube, as all tubes have the same outside dimensions..

Mars

[PuckJunkie76]

Excellent Gentlemen!! I really like both solutions. Not sure which I'll go with yet. I'll be shortening the 24" shell so I'll have a couple rings I can use for TB's method. I picked up my ferrules today so I'm anxious to get it all put together. I initially wanted ferrules at both ends of the shotgun, but when I made my spout I wasn't thinking and used a 2" reducer fitting which slides over the top of the DWV, so I'd have to do some serious modifying on that as well. I think I'll leave that as slip fit and save my other ferrule for the elbow.

[StillerBoy]

but when I made my spout I wasn't thinking and used a 2" reducer fitting which slides over the top of the DWV, so I'd have to do some serious modifying on that as well.

Here's a solution to your issue on the spout end of the shotty.. just solder the end plate to the inside of the tube, and leave the reducer as a slider, that will also allow one to clean the inside if the need araises..

I done many as such..

Mars

[PuckJunkie76]

Yes, that is what I'll do Stiller. Thank you for the help! I think I'll make it so I could still add a ferrule later, if I feel the need to, but otherwise I'll just use my slip fit spout as I pictured above. Appreciate you guys!!!

[aquote=StillerBoy post_id=7739437 time=1674178834 user_id=61884]

but when I made my spout I wasn't thinking and used a 2" reducer fitting which slides over the top of the DWV, so I'd have to do some serious modifying on that as well.

Here's a solution to your issue on the spout end of the shotty.. just solder the end plate to the inside of the tube, and leave the reducer as a slider, that will also allow one to clean the inside if the need araises..

I done many as such..

Mars
[/quote]

[30xs]

Looking at your plates, five looks pretty tight. I tried a couple sets and never did like my tube spacing. There’s a reason most shotguns are four 1/2” I.d. or an occasional seven 1/2” o.d. I’m not saying it can’t be done, but four is much easier and will knockdown anything you need.

[PuckJunkie76]

Yeah, I thought about that. If I hadn't already spent the time and effort on the plates and baffles, I'd switch...if it doesn't solder well, I'll go to four.

Looking at your plates, five looks pretty tight. I tried a couple sets and never did like my tube spacing. There’s a reason most shotguns are four 1/2” I.d. or an occasional seven 1/2” o.d. I’m not saying it can’t be done, but four is much easier and will knockdown anything you need.

[Bushman]

I really enjoyed reading all the good suggestions and advice given on this thread. Also nice work on your build. For others planning on a shotgun dephlagmater you might consider my design bringing the cooling through the top. Just a reminder here are a few pictures of what I did.

My first still was a 2” VM that I cooled with a garbage can filled with cold water. Couple things to think about.
1. I picked a pond pump that was rated for a 12’ vertical lift,
2. I froze gallon milk jugs filled with water and rotated them in the garbage can to keep the water cool for a longer time. With a 2” column it took hours to run thus I still had to siphon some of the water out during the run and add additional cold water. That is why my current still is a 4” CM.

[PuckJunkie76]

Very nice Bushman..Thanks for joining the conversation!!

I really enjoyed reading all the good suggestions and advice given on this thread. Also nice work on your build. For others planning on a shotgun dephlagmater you might consider my design bringing the cooling through the top. Just a reminder here are a few pictures of what I did.
4300396E-32EC-4634-BF54-67E85D85B166.jpeg81640620-5DEE-4465-92AB-EDEB760B44AE.jpeg

My first still was a 2” VM that I cooled with a garbage can filled with cold water. Couple things to think about.
1. I picked a pond pump that was rated for a 12’ vertical lift,
2. I froze gallon milk jugs filled with water and rotated them in the garbage can to keep the water cool for a longer time. With a 2” column it took hours to run thus I still had to siphon some of the water out during the run and add additional cold water. That is why my current still is a 4” CM.

[PuckJunkie76]

Hey TB, I came up with a good solution based off of your method!! I had a small sheet of thin copper I had bought previously at a craft store to make a model still out of. It worked perfect!!! No grinding!!

[StillerBoy]

I would solder the band in first before soldering the ferrule and end plate assembly, to over come any possible leaks later..

Mars

[PuckJunkie76]

I appreciate it!! Yeah, I agree.

I would solder the band in first before soldering the ferrule and end plate assembly, to over come any possible leaks later..

Mars