Smoky whiskey input

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RockinRockies
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Smoky whiskey input

Post by RockinRockies »

Recently had my local brewery / barbecue smoke 50 lb of oats for me with Post oak from Texas. I'm not sure how the flavor profile is going to turn out.
I want to do a 50 gallon batch to end up with 40 gallons for two charges.

I'm thinking of going with wheat or steamrolled barley and then using enzymes.

I've also considered possibly doing 30% corn 20% rye unmalted in half of the oats. Mainly because corn is cheaper. But the butter popcorn flavor concerns me.

Can anyone weigh in that knows enough about smoke profiles in whiskey recipe development so I can make the best choice.
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Re: Smoky whiskey input

Post by Stonecutter »

That’s pretty effin’ cool of them.
Why’d you choose oat?
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RockinRockies
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Re: Smoky whiskey input

Post by RockinRockies »

Stonecutter wrote: Wed Dec 29, 2021 4:35 pm That’s pretty effin’ cool of them.
Why’d you choose oat?
I wanted steamrolled barley but Murdoch's doesn't carry it I have to order it.
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Re: Smoky whiskey input

Post by still_stirrin »

I would use malted barley, preferably a lager malt, or a pale ale malt. You’ll want the smokiness in the oats to remain subtle so I would NOT use rye, as that would add a lot of spiciness which could interfere with the smokiness. And corn will add sweetness which might be complementary as long as it’s not more than 25% or 30% of the grainbill.

Remember, oats is a “smoother” cereal grain, that is, it will smooth the other flavors together in the product. It is neither sweet or astringent in the finish, so the other grains will fit together in the palette. I think the lager malt or pale ale malt will complement the other cereal grains and lend a dry finish which will augment the phenolic, smokiness from the oats.

This is what I’d start with:
—> 50% oak smoked oats
—> 25% lager (or pale ale) malt
—> 25% corn (malted, if you can find it or malt it yourself)

If you want to add a touch of spice, then swap 10% of the corn for 10% rye malt. But I would not exceed 10% as it will become dominant in your finished spirit.

Finally, keep in mind that oats has some glucans in it (not near as much as rye malt), so it will add mouthfeel (body) to your product. Also, its flavor is softer than barley, but not sweet like corn, so the lager malt will give you a nice whiskey (perhaps even Scotch-like) taste which will be complemented by the smokiness.
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Re: Smoky whiskey input

Post by RockinRockies »

Still stirrin

Thank you! Very much. That's exactly the type of response I was hoping to receive. I'm going to do just that. Thank you
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Ben
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Re: Smoky whiskey input

Post by Ben »

What about doing a smaller pilot batch? I am distilling a corn base with 5% oak smoked wheat and 10% raw barley today, I will give you impressions when I get the blending done. I will end up with about 2L of product, you are welcome to give it a taste. I will "quick age" in a 2l barrel over about 3 weeks.
:)
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Re: Smoky whiskey input

Post by RockinRockies »

Ben wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 8:36 am What about doing a smaller pilot batch? I am distilling a corn base with 5% oak smoked wheat and 10% raw barley today, I will give you impressions when I get the blending done. I will end up with about 2L of product, you are welcome to give it a taste. I will "quick age" in a 2l barrel over about 3 weeks.
The reason because my setup needs a certain volume in my boiler. Plus, I almost never hate anything I make.
I will run this and then if you want to direct message me when you're finished we can definitely send each other sample that be cool
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Re: Smoky whiskey input

Post by still_stirrin »

Ben and RiR,

Just keep in mind that “time” is fundamental to the development of flavors in a whiskey. So, there isn’t a “quick answer”, or more appropriately, a “quick taste comparison”, unless you plan to compare only the white whiskeys. And that is NOT a fair comparison, especially for a recipe which calls for a high percentage of a smoked grain vs a small percentage. It’s “apples & oranges”.

But, it is fruitful to compare different recipes, whether mature or white, just to gain an understanding of the different cereal grains contributions to the flavor palette.

After years of brewing beers (and more than a few awards to show for it), I have learned what fits with what and how to “paint the picture” of a recipe to meet just about any style. So, it indeed requires practice and feedback to create what you’re trying to do. But it is the “creative art” of this hobby that we all enjoy….(and the “rewards” too, of course).
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Re: Smoky whiskey input

Post by Ben »

There was a time I was brewing a lot when I could get close to duplicating a beer off of nothing but taste. Then I hung it up for a few years, then when I got back into it I got straight into distilling... so I consider that skill largely lost (I prefer whiskey over beer these days so i don't brew all that much except a few dialed in recipes to keep a couple taps flowing).

On this recipe, I got it distilled but not blended. It definitely had some different qualities coming off the still. Unfortunately I woke up the morning following the run feeling like death warmed over and am still not up to drinking/blending. I did not however taste the smoke anywhere in the run so I think the percentage is going to have to come up. I was anticipating it in the heads hearts transition but didnt get it there. The entire run was much more savory than the base recipe normally turns out though. More to follow on this when blending happens.
:)
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Re: Smoky whiskey input

Post by Ben »

RockinRockies wrote: Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:39 am
Ben wrote: Thu Dec 30, 2021 8:36 am What about doing a smaller pilot batch? I am distilling a corn base with 5% oak smoked wheat and 10% raw barley today, I will give you impressions when I get the blending done. I will end up with about 2L of product, you are welcome to give it a taste. I will "quick age" in a 2l barrel over about 3 weeks.
The reason because my setup needs a certain volume in my boiler. Plus, I almost never hate anything I make.
I will run this and then if you want to direct message me when you're finished we can definitely send each other sample that be cool
This sounds like the perfect excuse to build a second mini rig!
:)
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Re: Smoky whiskey input

Post by RockinRockies »

Almost ready. Had to add angels. The funk from the angels is almost gone but still slightly present and the oats are still capping, which makes me think something is still going.

No pellicule yet, smoke is intense on the palate of the mash, but subtle in the nose, I'm assuming because of angels
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Re: Smoky whiskey input

Post by Ben »

In my beers at least I find the smoke flavor backs down pretty quickly then kind of levels off, I am interested to see how you find it in the whiskey. I want to do something like this to have ready for hunting season 2023, please keep the updates coming, cool experiment!
:)
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Re: Smoky whiskey input

Post by RockinRockies »

Ben wrote: Tue Mar 01, 2022 6:45 am In my beers at least I find the smoke flavor backs down pretty quickly then kind of levels off, I am interested to see how you find it in the whiskey. I want to do something like this to have ready for hunting season 2023, please keep the updates coming, cool experiment!
Absolutely sir, I will run this on Monday. I also have a batch of corn whiskey that's 85/15 corn and unmalted rye. Total 100 gallons between the two. Will need two days to run all of it, and hopefully end up with about 7.5 gallons at 120 to add to my 15 gallon barrel. Finally getting around to filling these bad boys. Unless I like each by themselves too much to blend.

I'll report back by Wednesday or Thursday at the latest next week.
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Re: Smoky whiskey input

Post by LordL »

Ben wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:34 am There was a time I was brewing a lot when I could get close to duplicating a beer off of nothing but taste. Then I hung it up for a few years, then when I got back into it I got straight into distilling... so I consider that skill largely lost (I prefer whiskey over beer these days so i don't brew all that much except a few dialed in recipes to keep a couple taps flowing).

On this recipe, I got it distilled but not blended. It definitely had some different qualities coming off the still. Unfortunately I woke up the morning following the run feeling like death warmed over and am still not up to drinking/blending. I did not however taste the smoke anywhere in the run so I think the percentage is going to have to come up. I was anticipating it in the heads hearts transition but didnt get it there. The entire run was much more savory than the base recipe normally turns out though. More to follow on this when blending happens.
The smoke should be found along the tails, and as with rum, saving a select portion of tails to rerun with the next spirit run, will let the smokey phenols transition over to the hearts.

I have not yet succeeded. I believe that I need a potstill of an efficiency not more than maybe 1,5 HETP to get a bleed of smoke over to the hearts.
My old slouch of a labmaster was driven way low and slow and ended up completely non smokey in the hearts, with tails so compressed they all tasted and smelled like concentrated evil. My dishwasher smelled faintly of peatsmoke after having washed the tails jars..
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Re: Smoky whiskey input

Post by subbrew »

Smoke is hard to work with. Not talking distilling as my experience is beer with smoked malt. But the amount to use is an art. Different batches of smoked grain vary in the level of smoke. And then the smoke drops out with age as well so a beer made with two month old smoked grain is different from one with 4 month old smoked grain. At least in beer it is easy to over do the smoke. But, of course distilling will temper it so you may need more. I would not worry going a high as 40% corn though. Smokey BBQ sauce usually has a sweet underside, so the sweet and smoke can play well together

Just looked and realized this thread started over a year ago. So Rocky, how is it tasting now?
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