Fast fermentations

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Knife_man
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Fast fermentations

Post by Knife_man »

I see quite a lots of people saying things along the lines of

"Ready to run in 5 days " or "only takes 7 days to ferment out".

My questions is twofold
1) how come you guys are getting such lightning fast fermentations ?
2) why the rush ?

I'll be the first to admit that over here in the UK the temperatures can be on the low side which will slow things down but even in the heat of summer when we are getting 25+Deg C ive never in all my time brewing winemaking and distilling had a fermentation I would consider done in 5 days.

As an example my current rum wash which is wrapped in a blanket with a heater band and sits at approx 25°C has been going for 9 days and I'm still getting a regular burp from the airlock so not in a rush to check on it yet.

Am I being too picky and do people normally run it when it's 95% done as waiting for the last 5% isn't worth your time ?

And secondly why are you in such a hurry to get it fermented? Is hard and fast better for distilling ........ for brewing and winemaking generally low and slow is considered better. I've always been a firm believer that time is your friend in pretty much all stages of making booze .... So why the rush to get the fermentation done ?
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Ben
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Re: Fast fermentations

Post by Ben »

No problem with taking your time. 3 weeks, months, whatever... It's all good. I usually let my stuff sit for weeks to months after primary ferment (all apparent sugar has been consumed) is complete. Yeast continue to work, even after they consume all of the sugar and release all the CO2.


A bubbling airlock is not a good indicator of whether a ferment is finished, period.


You can get a ferment to finish in 3 days: you need to have optimal temps, the right yeast strain, healthy yeast colony, proper pitch rate (not excessive, not too little), correct starting gravity, good minerality and nutrition.... the exact same things that make a ferment clean.



Trying to ferment to someone else's schedule is just going to cause anxiety and frustration. It's a good goal to be able to consistently get primary fermentation to complete in a few days, but it takes time and practice to get there. Work towards it, try to understand why your ferments are a bit slow, try to improve, but don't let it stress you.
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Stonecutter
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Re: Fast fermentations

Post by Stonecutter »

I do believe some people rush things and try to force the natural progression of a ferment and it may work out fine for them.
I think it’s all about personal preferences, yeast strains, fermentation temperature, OG and the type of rig you’re running.
I do my runs on the weekends so it just depends on how busy I am. For example, if I feel like a fermentation is ready to run on say a Tuesday but I’m too busy to run for another week or so that’s just how it goes down.
I like to let the colony finish up their meal and go into hibernation nice and peaceful like.
Maybe play them a lullaby on the Les Paul to ease their little souls into a good vibration.
Plus I run internal elements and the less stirring and concerning I put myself through the better.
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still_stirrin
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Re: Fast fermentations

Post by still_stirrin »

Knife_man wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:13 am I see quite a lots of people saying things along the lines of: “Ready to run in 5 days " or "only takes 7 days to ferment out".

My questions is twofold:
1) how come you guys are getting such lightning fast fermentations ? <— When conditions are “right” and your yeast is healthy, it does not take very long to ferment.
2) why the rush ? <— Some hobbiests are in a frenzy to fill their liquor jars. But, not everybody is.

… Am I being too picky and do people normally run it when it's 95% done as waiting for the last 5% isn't worth your time ? <— I ferment in glass carboys, so I’ll wait until it’s fully attenuated. And then, I’ll wait even longer until it clears. No hurry for me because I have plenty of inventory on hand already.

And secondly why are you in such a hurry to get it fermented? <— Again, many hobbiests, especially new hobbiests, want to “jump in” quickly for instant gratification. Once you’ve done a few (or hundreds) ferments, then you’ll be more patient to wait on it to finish (and even flocculate).

… Is hard and fast better for distilling ? <— “How long is a piece of string?” Hard & fast depends on what you’re trying to accomplish. Also, it depends on what tools you’re using. Finally, “hard & fast” is subjective. I may measure it different than you do.

… So why the rush to get the fermentation done ? <— I don’t “get in a rush”. I have gallons of mature stock that I can drink, so there is no hurry for me to get ‘er done.
Experience brings wisdom. So, your questions will be OBE (overcome by events) once you’ve been here a while and you have a number of runs “under your belt”.
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Knife_man
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Re: Fast fermentations

Post by Knife_man »

Thanks for the responses guys. Good to know that not everyone is chasing super fast ferments and while it may be a good goal to have it's not worth worrying about too much.

To be clear I generally use the airlock as an indicator of when to START checking on a wash ie lift the lid check for activity , check SG etc ..... generally though I just leave it for a bit after it appears to be finished until conditions are right for a run ie I have the time, jars are empty , Ive finished the last run and kids are out of the way I'm very rarely in a rush to get a run done despite pressure from the wife to "get that crap out of my kitchen".

I know well enough that if I'm trying to rush something I'll cock it up. And that's not something I'm prepared to play around with when distilling so I just bide my time until I know I can do a run without any pressure.
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Re: Fast fermentations

Post by EricTheRed »

Knife_man wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:13 am I see quite a lots of people saying things along the lines of

"Ready to run in 5 days " or "only takes 7 days to ferment out".

My questions is twofold
1) how come you guys are getting such lightning fast fermentations ?
2) why the rush ?

I'll be the first to admit that over here in the UK the temperatures can be on the low side which will slow things down but even in the heat of summer when we are getting 25+Deg C ive never in all my time brewing winemaking and distilling had a fermentation I would consider done in 5 days.

As an example my current rum wash which is wrapped in a blanket with a heater band and sits at approx 25°C has been going for 9 days and I'm still getting a regular burp from the airlock so not in a rush to check on it yet.

Am I being too picky and do people normally run it when it's 95% done as waiting for the last 5% isn't worth your time ?

And secondly why are you in such a hurry to get it fermented? Is hard and fast better for distilling ........ for brewing and winemaking generally low and slow is considered better. I've always been a firm believer that time is your friend in pretty much all stages of making booze .... So why the rush to get the fermentation done ?
Not rushing at all. Ambient temps here in summer are well north of 30⁰C.
No choice really.
In winter takes a bit longer
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NZChris
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Re: Fast fermentations

Post by NZChris »

1) how come you guys are getting such lightning fast fermentations ?

By not being alcohol greedy. I aim for 8% ABV for my rums, use baker's yeast and ferment at tropical temperatures. They are usually finished in three days, about the same amount of time that commercial rum distillers get.

2) why the rush ?

To encourage flavor development, I let my rums rest for six days after the ferment goes dead.
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Re: Fast fermentations

Post by StillerBoy »

Knife_man wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:13 am 1) how come you guys are getting such lightning fast fermentations ?
Because it's done right by planning a properly formulated wash..

Pitching temp, proper amounts of ingredients, Ph levels and stable fermenting temp, are some of the important requirements..

High SG, unstable fermentation temp, and unadjusted PH are some of the detrimental ones..

Knife_man wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:13 am 2) why the rush ?
If the above are monitored, a 10% ABV wash will easily be done in 3 - 4 days and cleared in another 3 - 4 days.. Less than 10% will even be quicker like under 3 days.. it is also easy to do a 10% under 3 days or less without stressing the yeast..

It's not rocket science, it's paying attention to details and having a process in place..

Mars
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squigglefunk
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Re: Fast fermentations

Post by squigglefunk »

Knife_man wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:13 am I see quite a lots of people saying things along the lines of

"Ready to run in 5 days " or "only takes 7 days to ferment out".

My questions is twofold
1) how come you guys are getting such lightning fast fermentations ?
5-7 days is not "lightning fast" IMO...
2) why the rush ?
no rush, it's done when it's done, but it's just that the more you do it the less you have ferments sitting around for weeks without finishing
I'll be the first to admit that over here in the UK the temperatures can be on the low side which will slow things down but even in the heat of summer when we are getting 25+Deg C ive never in all my time brewing winemaking and distilling had a fermentation I would consider done in 5 days.

As an example my current rum wash which is wrapped in a blanket with a heater band and sits at approx 25°C has been going for 9 days and I'm still getting a regular burp from the airlock so not in a rush to check on it yet.
a regular burp from the airlock is not how you tell it's "done", if you took a starting gravity you will know when it's done? In all your time of making whatever that's a pretty standard test right? Also what's "done" for beer and wine is a bit different than what's "done" for distilling isn't it?
Am I being too picky and do people normally run it when it's 95% done as waiting for the last 5% isn't worth your time ?
how do you know you're waiting for 5%? From the smell of the burp?
And secondly why are you in such a hurry to get it fermented? Is hard and fast better for distilling ........ for brewing and winemaking generally low and slow is considered better. I've always been a firm believer that time is your friend in pretty much all stages of making booze .... So why the rush to get the fermentation done ?
again, 5-7 is not a hurry, not even 3-4 days. Excellent ferments are made in these time frames when you get all the ducks in a row.

Now the "48 HR TURBO YEAST" might be a different story, I am not going to take on that battle tho :ebiggrin:
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Re: Fast fermentations

Post by StillerBoy »

squigglefunk wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:41 am Now the "48 HR TURBO YEAST" might be a different story,
Not really.. and I'm not talking about flavor, just the fermenting time..

Doing a regular sugar wash of 10% or a turbo at the same level, both are done within the same time frame.. I know a few people who use turbo for convenient, cut the packet ingredient by a half, and don't go beyond 10%.. the end product is as good as improperly done sugar wash or poor recipe..

Where the turbo stands out, is in the yeast and ingredients used to do 20% plus..

Mars
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Re: Fast fermentations

Post by Knife_man »

squigglefunk wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:41 am a regular burp from the airlock is not how you tell it's "done", if you took a starting gravity you will know when it's done? In all your time of making whatever that's a pretty standard test right? Also what's "done" for beer and wine is a bit different than what's "done" for distilling isn't it?

how do you know you're waiting for 5%? From the smell of the burp?

Now the "48 HR TURBO YEAST" might be a different story, I am not going to take on that battle tho :ebiggrin:
I never said I used the airlock to tell if it's done ...... I use the airlock as a indicator of when I need to start checking (or if something is going wrong ) again though just an INDICATOR final say for if a wash is done is with a hydrometer.

The 95 and 5% were just stab in the dark figures to ask if people are generally running a wash when it's mostly but not quite 100% done.

I'm well aware that I'm novice distiller but pretty experienced with fermentation with going on 15 years experience fermenting almost everything I could get my hands on cheap enough and sometimes I was even brave enough to drink it 😲. Kinda thought I'd got the fermentation side of things in the bag.

Yeah don't worry I'm well aware of turbo yeast ...... wouldn't use it for anything I'm going to drink. I do have a pack brought ages ago just in case I ever need to replenish my cleaning alchohol although its probably no good anymore ( not that it was ever" any good")
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Re: Fast fermentations

Post by squigglefunk »

Knife_man wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:00 amfinal say for if a wash is done is with a hydrometer.
yup, really the only say unless you didn't take a reading then go by taste, which I am fine doing myself but you'd be surprised the difference a day makes sometimes.
The 95 and 5% were just stab in the dark figures to ask if people are generally running a wash when it's mostly but not quite 100% done.
I generally now try to take a specific gravity reading and for an all grain wash it aint done till it's at 0.999 at least

I never try and run it before it's done personally. I'd rather let it sit a day more if I need.
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Re: Fast fermentations

Post by squigglefunk »

StillerBoy wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 7:36 amuse turbo for convenient, cut the packet ingredient by a half, and don't go beyond 10%.. the end product is as good as improperly done sugar wash or poor recipe..
makes sense to me, I have no real hatred for the "turbo" and I think the half dosage sounds about right.

I just mean I am never really trying to get a ferment done in 48 hours for whatever reason. That part just is not an issue or selling point to me lol.
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Re: Fast fermentations

Post by amh71 »

I blame UK bread yeasts, there is something different about the standard supermarket yeasts here I think.

Always used whatever was in the fridge for breadmaking, usually a tin of Allinsons, and had similar experience to you, most ferments took 10 to 14 days regardless of temps, pitch rate, PH etc. Could not figure how anyone got it down to 3 days and decided it must just be water chemistry.

Recently my wife started buying Doves Farm packs instead and the Shady's Sugar Shine I made with it went from 1.064 to 1.000 in 72 hrs and was at 0.993 when I racked it off the sediment 24hrs later.
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Re: Fast fermentations

Post by StillerBoy »

Knife_man wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:00 am I use the airlock as a indicator of when I need to start checking (or if something is going wrong ) again though just an INDICATOR final say for if a wash is done is with a hydrometer.
The airlock is a carry over from beer and wine making, but is a poor "indicator".. don't know much about beer making other than what I read, but wine yes.. and the airlock is not used in the primary stage, but in the secondary stage for a different reason which does not apply in distilling beer..

The final SG is only a starting point, the best indicator for checking a finish wash/mash is a pen light shined across the top.. when there no visible activity, she done.. or if the activity is not visible before the due date of being done, then there are other issues..

Mars
Last edited by StillerBoy on Fri Jan 27, 2023 9:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fast fermentations

Post by StillerBoy »

amh71 wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:22 am Recently my wife started buying Doves Farm packs instead and the Shady's Sugar Shine I made with it went from 1.064 to 1.000 in 72 hrs and was at 0.993 when I racked it off the sediment 24hrs later.
There you go, paying attention to details.. an important part of any task done..

Mars
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Re: Fast fermentations

Post by Knife_man »

amh71 wrote: Fri Jan 27, 2023 8:22 am I blame UK bread yeasts, there is something different about the standard supermarket yeasts here I think.

Always used whatever was in the fridge for breadmaking, usually a tin of Allinsons, and had similar experience to you, most ferments took 10 to 14 days regardless of temps, pitch rate, PH etc. Could not figure how anyone got it down to 3 days and decided it must just be water chemistry.

Recently my wife started buying Doves Farm packs instead and the Shady's Sugar Shine I made with it went from 1.064 to 1.000 in 72 hrs and was at 0.993 when I racked it off the sediment 24hrs later.
I may have to look into that then
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Re: Fast fermentations

Post by NZChris »

A better question might be...

If your rum ferments are taking longer than 72 hours to go dead, what are you doing wrong?
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