Good wines to prep oak for aging whisky?

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ShineRunnah
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Good wines to prep oak for aging whisky?

Post by ShineRunnah »

I've been reading a bit on the wine casks used by Scotch whisky makers, and I'm wondering about the experiences of others here on the forum that have used oak soaked in wine, barrels that had been used to age wine or other means of using wine to impart flavor into your spirits. I've found some info here, but it's spread about and I've yet to find a thread that discusses the different wines that folks have used, how they affected the spirit, methods used, etc, etc.

What I'm hoping for, is for those of you who have used wine barrels, wine soaked oak, or some other method, to please share you experiences.

As I'm not very fond of wine, I'd prefer not to purchase a dozen bottles to find something I think will work, and even then flavor may not come through as I hope in the spirit anyway. Be nice to get a little guidance on this part of the journey in hopes of flattening the learning curve just a touch!

Thanks for any help you all can provide.
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corene1
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Re: Good wines to prep oak for aging whisky?

Post by corene1 »

There are many ways to use oak in your aging . It encompasses many different types of oak and the use and treatment of the barrels. Many Scotch whisky makers use the older more traditional Spanish sherry barrels , while others used once used bourbon barrels. Some start their whisky in used bourbon barrels and then transfer them into sherry barrels to finish them. It all depends on the flavor you are looking for. I myself have used new toasted and charred oak , once used toasted and charred oak . a big difference in flavor right there. I have also used once used oak soaked in sherry for 6 months then put into my whisky to age it. It is much less woody and more floral and fruity. Even the amount of oak a you use will have an effect on the flavor. My most recent experiment involves using staves from a cabernet sauvignon wine barrel cut and toasted then added to a malted barley and rye AG whisky at 16 sq inches per quart. It is very promising at 1 month. Just use the HD google search for oak aging and there should be huge amounts of information as it is quite an ongoing subject here. Mostly it will come down to experimentation and deciding what you like best.
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kaziel
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Re: Good wines to prep oak for aging whisky?

Post by kaziel »

For Kirschwasser I'm using semi toasted oak chips that I'm using for ferment 50g per 25L for sour cherry wash works for me. You can also use some toasted cherry wood if you got some. I'm using small bag from local brewing store normally used for dry hoping it's easier to find when fermenting on the fruit. For whiskey same chips give you deep but light cherry flavor and a fruity tone with a tannin bitter finish in my opinion good for pilsner malt whiskey I'm making.
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ShineRunnah
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Re: Good wines to prep oak for aging whisky?

Post by ShineRunnah »

Thanks, appreciate the info.

However, I'm more looking for information on wines than I am oak or other woods. I've read mountains of info on wood used in aging, and I've got a reasonable understanding of how woods work in the aging process.
What I am somewhat struggling with, is the wine aspect of it. I've spent several hours wading through posts about oaking and picking up bits and pieces of info, but I haven't found much that is focused directly on the wine aspect, and that is truly what I am looking for.

Basically, I'm hoping for info on the processes other members have used to impart the flavors of wine into their spirits, and also what wines they have used and how the certain wine has affected the final flavor.

I have some idea of the flavors I'm looking for, but as I don't know much at all about wine or how certain wines will affect the flavor of the spirit, it's difficult to determine what wine I want to use.

I guess I'm more looking for info on wine than wood. Maybe a better name for the thread is in order?
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kaziel
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Re: Good wines to prep oak for aging whisky?

Post by kaziel »

As I've said earlier I'm using wood from cherry ferment to oak pilsner whiskey. I'm making lot of wine so I was experimenting. I use 50/50 mix of white semi toasted oak/oak from cherry ferment to age pilsner malt whiskey. I think it would be really hard for you to get straight answer to your questions, you will get more of a guidance. Wine effects oak in many ways it's dependent on a type of yeast being used, quality and quantity of fruits picked for wine, time and temp of fermentation just to name a few. My whiskey if done on a VM still with half packing removed so it's pretty clean but with plenty of taste "cherry oak" is a great addictive to that.
I've also use oak that was fermented with apples to age apple brandy - it gave a bit of sweetens to final product + a tart tone that last on a tongue more than just white oak. Hope it helps.
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NZChris
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Re: Good wines to prep oak for aging whisky?

Post by NZChris »

Don't restrict yourself to the forum. What are commercial producers using? What did they use in the past? If they changed, why, was it for quality, or to reduce costs?

If you don't particularly like wine, why use it? There is a lot of Scotch being aged in used bourbon barrels nowadays.

If I was in a hurry to get a result, I would nuke some dominoes in a good quality dry sherry, nuke some Scotch with a couple of the dominoes, taste that and see where I wanted to go from there.
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Re: Good wines to prep oak for aging whisky?

Post by ShineRunnah »

Thanks again for the replies, and I'm not limiting myself to only the info here. I'm simply unsure of how things scale from the large sherry buttes and such, to the rather small scale of my own aging vessels.

And while I'm not a huge fan of wine, I do like the flavor it imparts into whisky.

As for being in a hurry, I'm not really. Excellence come with patience, persistence and knowledge gained through both. And I'm definitely open to learning from the experience of others.

I've picked up a few bottles of Madeira, Oloroso, a locally made Maple wine a few others, for tasting and testing and such. The issue lies in the endless varieties of wine available, and as I've never been a wine drinker, I'm basically starting from scratch with this.

I've got an acquaintance/friend that runs a local winery and vineyard, and will be going over to pick his brain for some knowledge, as well as some tasting and possibly working with him to find some suitable wines that will work well with the type of whiskies I make.

Been reading info on wine forums and review sites, looking for flavor profiles that may work, etc. But again, as I'm totally new to wine and have done relatively little testing of how it affects whisky through the aging process, it's a bit overwhelming.

Some guidance and basic ideas of where to start is what I'm hoping for here, not a hard and fast "use X-wine for X-amount of time and you'll get what you want", as I know it goes far deeper.

And as I'm sure there must be others here interested in this topic, I figured putting some of the knowledge here about the use of wine in aging in a single spot may be appreciated by others as well.

Again, thank you all and I appreciate any and all advice, guidance and suggestions you can provide. The more info that can be applied to the subject, the better.

As a final note, I'm a bit more open minded than the Scotch Whisky Association likely is, and I'm very much willing to try unconventional methods or wines. As long as it adds to my whisky in a good way, I'm open to anything!

Thanks again.
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NZChris
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Re: Good wines to prep oak for aging whisky?

Post by NZChris »

I've changed my mind on the nuking test. I reckon dipping, then drying, the dominoes in the sherry a few times would get a better result, infusing the sherry into the oak without losing tannins etc. into the sherry.
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Re: Good wines to prep oak for aging whisky?

Post by buflowing »

My thinking is, why screw around with the wood soaking thing. I added 1.5 tsp of cream sherry directly into a gallon of smokey barley all grain. It was readily detectable when I did it. 3 months later, it's blended right in. Can't say I can pick it out.
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Re: Good wines to prep oak for aging whisky?

Post by Jimbo »

Ive used oak soaked in sherry, chianti and apple brandy. All add a nice flavor to a whiskey. Ive also taken the whiskey soaked wood and used it with apple brandy and rum. Any little thing you do like this adds a subtle new character. All nice best I can tell.
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Re: Good wines to prep oak for aging whisky?

Post by Nanacooks »

Love this! I’m just sorry I’m just now seeing this. Anyone done any amazing experiments over the last few years?
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Re: Good wines to prep oak for aging whisky?

Post by Deplorable »

Nanacooks wrote: Sun Jan 29, 2023 1:42 pm Love this! I’m just sorry I’m just now seeing this. Anyone done any amazing experiments over the last few years?
Ive got some port soaked staves that Ive used to finish whiskey. On our small scale. it doesnt take long to make a subtle change to the spirit. I did 1.5L on a single piece of .75X.75X 2 inch long peice of wood that had been soaked for a year in a Barbera Port then taken out and sun dried for a week before adding to the jar. After 3 days I pulled the oak, and made 3 fifths of port finished single malt. It got drank pretty fast.
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