Looking for more info on DADY

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Ben
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Looking for more info on DADY

Post by Ben »

Pretty much the only info I can find on DADY is the blurb on seller sites:

"DADY (Distillers Active Dry Yeast) is a specially selected strain of Saccharomyces Cerevisae designed for distillers use in grain mash fermentations for ethanol. DADY will produce maximum alcohol yields under controlled temperatures (less than 90°F/32°C). It has been the choice of many producers in North America for over 20 years. DADY has been used in the manufacture of light spirits and Whiskeys. It is also used on corn mash and syrup fermentations. DADY is recommended for ABV productions lower than 15%."

It really doesn't give much up on flavor profiles, does anyone have anything further on it? Is it STA1 positive? The only thing I can find on temps is the max, nothing on what minimum is, nothing on ideal range.

Says its used for "light spirits and whiskeys" do they mean "light whiskey"?

I know the forum loves it, but I think that's motivated more by price than by quality. Its hard to argue with, its 1/10th the cost of brewers yeast. If you are fermenting on the grain its tough to stomach tossing out a bunch of expensive yeast after every ferment.

This is driven by a recent experience with another distillers product in which I could reliably pick up his bread yeast/DADY combo... I found the flavor profile of the distillate to be a more narrow than what I am accustomed to in ale yeast ferments, even though his cuts are wider and his distillation protocol is a little grungier. His fermented, but undistilled wash had less flavor intensity than an ale yeast as well, even though he ferments on grain and I ferment off, and my ferments end up drier than what I sampled.
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Re: Looking for more info on DADY

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

I think what you’ll find are a lot of anecdotes about using it properly. I have a lot of experience with the stuff. It seems, from what I’ve read on HD, it performs best at 85 degrees to which I agree. It goes much slower when you dip into the 70’s. As a test, I fermented a batch of HBB with US-05 at 72 degrees and another with DADY at 85 degrees. Did cuts on both and compared flavor of the white dog side-by-side. I honestly had a hard time finding a difference between the two. I have noticed I get a subtle grape/cherry ester when using it though, which I quite enjoy. I could best describe its flavor profile as clean, allowing the grist to tell more of the story. If you’re after big esters, this is not great for that.

All that said, there could be pre-cursors to future esters “with oak aging” that are hard to detect in the white dog, which could make a more prominent change with more time. The flavors I seem to get from aging are more on the spice/honey side of things, not very fruity.
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Re: Looking for more info on DADY

Post by SDEngr1 »

All I have used so far is DADY yeast. Ferment at 80 degrees F and generally limit my PABV to 13% or less. It does much better with a pH of 4 or above and will stall around 3.7 in my experience. It performs better using inverted sugar and I have produced some very good bourbon using it. I have made neutral, UJSSM, and Corn/Rye mash. I decided to try some others in the future, out of curiosity, even bread yeasts to compare. I really have nothing negative to report.
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Re: Looking for more info on DADY

Post by Ben »

Thanks for the feedback so far.

I was able to find a TDS on it (https://socohomebrew.com/content/2370.pdf) it does specify it is designed for light whiskeys.

It also states the rehydration temp to be 104°(40c) which leads me to believe this is a warm fermenter (safspirit M1 for instance calls for rehydration temp of 77-95, and a min ferment temp of 68°)
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Re: Looking for more info on DADY

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

Ben wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 8:19 am Thanks for the feedback so far.

I was able to find a TDS on it (https://socohomebrew.com/content/2370.pdf) it does specify it is designed for light whiskeys.

It also states the rehydration temp to be 104°(40c) which leads me to believe this is a warm fermenter (safspirit M1 for instance calls for rehydration temp of 77-95, and a min ferment temp of 68°)
Looking at your link, it seems they say it’s designed for light spirits and whiskey, not specifically light whiskey. Not sure how much those semantics matter. When they specify light spirits, I assume they mean vodka.

My main takeaway is it’s been selectively isolated to perform well in grain ferments. That said, I’ve also made clean neutral with sugar “shady’s sugar shine” and had great results and yield.
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Re: Looking for more info on DADY

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

This has me thinking now… if DADY is designed specifically for ethanol yield and is geared towards fuel too, it’s probably not going to produce much other flavor congeners as that could be considered wasteful in this context. Again, it’s definitely a grain forward flavor from my experience. There is some subtle ester I pick up, but by the time the oak does it’s job, it takes a big back seat.

At this point, I’m getting a little bored using it. I’d love to try something else that creates a more fruity profile with the oak. I’m interested in M1, but have no idea how to get my hands on it on such a small scale. I’m also overdue to try an English ale strain like S04 or WLP007. I’m also considering a strain I use for hazy IPA that’s a total fruit bomb, Imperial A38 Juice.
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Re: Looking for more info on DADY

Post by Ben »

S04 is my normal strain. Side by side on the same recipe fermented with s04 with DADY I can pick up noticeable differences in both white and aged spirits from my own still. That said I bet I'm no where near optimal temps with my ferments for DADY (even in the summer my ferment area is around 72) and this time of year I'm in the high 60s. Its possible that's why it ferments very neutral for me.
Last edited by Ben on Mon Dec 12, 2022 11:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Looking for more info on DADY

Post by Ben »

BrewinBrian44 wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 11:20 am
Looking at your link, it seems they say it’s designed for light spirits and whiskey, not specifically light whiskey.
It does, then it doesn't:
"This strain has been used in the fermentation of light whiskeys and neutral spirits."

Rereading it again, I am beginning to believe it is intended for fuel production, and not much else. Possibly corn ethanol.
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Re: Looking for more info on DADY

Post by Saltbush Bill »

BrewinBrian44 wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 11:31 am Looking at your link, it seems they say it’s designed for light spirits and whiskey, not specifically light whiskey.
FWIW....Ive never used DADY.......never even heard of it being for sale in Au.
Ive got to wonder who "THEY" are ......are they the people trying to market this stuff ?.......the manufacturers maybe ?.......I'll lay a bottle of my best rum on the fact that it wont be an independent sources opinion.
Its hard to put trust in any sales blurb these days......."they" will say anything to sell something.
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Re: Looking for more info on DADY

Post by squigglefunk »

I have used DADY. It works, it seems to like it warm and goes painfully slow if the temp drops too low from my experience. I think I like reg bakers yeast better ... I will always just be a swill maker at heart and these fancy yeast strains both frighten and confuse me.
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Re: Looking for more info on DADY

Post by Ben »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 11:08 pm [
Ive got to wonder who "THEY" are ......are they the people trying to market this stuff ?.
The "they" in this case is the manufacturer, that is the product TDS from Fermentis/Redstar.
squigglefunk wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 6:08 am I have used DADY. It works, it seems to like it warm and goes painfully slow if the temp drops too low from my experience. I think I like reg bakers yeast better ... I will always just be a swill maker at heart and these fancy yeast strains both frighten and confuse me.
At a certain point yeast is yeast, if all you are after is alcohol, or making neutrals anything will do fine. Nothing to be afraid of in them, choosing the right yeast for the job/climate can make the ferment easier and smoother and hopefully make a better spirit... quest for a better spirit is the point of the thread (point of the forum maybe?). Yeast seems largely overlooked, up until recently I assumed it was because it doesn't matter that much. My perspective on that has changed though, I think it can make or break a whiskey.

It's a different topic, but yeast is easy to propagate and harvest; the on the grain guys could be splitting off a portion of their batches to propagate the yeast for the next batch on, and do that perpetually, it doesn't have to be a big expense, a packet of yeast can do many hundreds of gallons through a life cycle.
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Re: Looking for more info on DADY

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Saltbush Bill wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 11:08 pm
BrewinBrian44 wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 11:31 am Looking at your link, it seems they say it’s designed for light spirits and whiskey, not specifically light whiskey.
FWIW....Ive never used DADY.......never even heard of it being for sale in Au.
Ive got to wonder who "THEY" are ......are they the people trying to market this stuff ?.......the manufacturers maybe ?.......I'll lay a bottle of my best rum on the fact that it wont be an independent sources opinion.
Its hard to put trust in any sales blurb these days......."they" will say anything to sell something.
What I mean by “they” is the manufacturer. Of course they will claim how versatile their yeast is, it’s good for business. It kind of goes back to what I said early in the thread; anecdotal experiences from members on homedistiller is probably going to be a better source of information about results in different types of spirits. Sure, it’s not going to be highly technical info like Ben is looking for, but still good for our purposes.

I’ve got a lot of experience with it, but I’m curious what others think. I always ferment at 85 degrees, if it’s too cold in my basement, I tape little heated seed mats to the outside of the vessel on an inkbird temp controller with the probe taped to the side under some insulation. If temps can’t hold, drape a blanket over it. My basement is 68 degrees.

Here’s my rule of thumb for how I use it. I don’t rehydrate, pitch right on top and ferment at 85 degrees. It’ll rip through a ferment very fast! 4 days on an 8% ABV wash and it’s usually bone dry. It doesn’t like pH drop, so oyster shells or powdered CC is usually necessary. It’ll make a tasty product, but won’t be very fruity. It’s inexpensive and works. I buy it on Amazon.

Side-by-side to bakers yeast, I haven’t noticed much difference. Both produce a clean wash.
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Re: Looking for more info on DADY

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

Ben wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 7:51 am
Saltbush Bill wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 11:08 pm [
Ive got to wonder who "THEY" are ......are they the people trying to market this stuff ?.
The "they" in this case is the manufacturer, that is the product TDS from Fermentis/Redstar.
squigglefunk wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 6:08 am I have used DADY. It works, it seems to like it warm and goes painfully slow if the temp drops too low from my experience. I think I like reg bakers yeast better ... I will always just be a swill maker at heart and these fancy yeast strains both frighten and confuse me.
At a certain point yeast is yeast, if all you are after is alcohol, or making neutrals anything will do fine. Nothing to be afraid of in them, choosing the right yeast for the job/climate can make the ferment easier and smoother and hopefully make a better spirit... quest for a better spirit is the point of the thread (point of the forum maybe?). Yeast seems largely overlooked, up until recently I assumed it was because it doesn't matter that much. My perspective on that has changed though, I think it can make or break a whiskey.

It's a different topic, but yeast is easy to propagate and harvest; the on the grain guys could be splitting off a portion of their batches to propagate the yeast for the next batch on, and do that perpetually, it doesn't have to be a big expense, a packet of yeast can do many hundreds of gallons through a life cycle.
Good point Ben on propagation. Think of how much cream is sitting at the bottom of the bucket after squeezing the wash out of the grains at the end, it’s mostly yeast in there. It can be washed and stored in sanitary vessels in the fridge for future use. If you want it to be super active, you could make a little starter prior to the ferment.
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Re: Looking for more info on DADY

Post by squigglefunk »

Ben wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 7:51 am Nothing to be afraid of in them, choosing the right yeast for the job/climate can make the ferment easier and smoother and hopefully make a better spirit...
oh I know, I was being a bit facetious... I like playing with different yeasts, but my old lady keeps throwing them out when she cleans the fridge :evil:
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Re: Looking for more info on DADY

Post by Ben »

I was thinking easier than that would be to pull off a fraction (say a quart per 5 gallons) of the clear mash from the top of the fermenter when fermentation first starts going, let it finish fermenting and settle, what settles out of that ought to be enough yeast for the next batch. The clear beer from that yeast harvest can just go into the still charge.
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Re: Looking for more info on DADY

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Ben wrote: Tue Dec 13, 2022 8:08 am I was thinking easier than that would be to pull off a fraction (say a quart per 5 gallons) of the clear mash from the top of the fermenter when fermentation first starts going, let it finish fermenting and settle, what settles out of that ought to be enough yeast for the next batch. The clear beer from that yeast harvest can just go into the still charge.
I like it. If I end up using a pricier yeast this makes a lot of sense. DADY is so cheap I don’t really care, but some of the liquid strains I wanted to try are expensive.

Skimming from the top is likely better too as this is the most active yeast.
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Re: Looking for more info on DADY

Post by Ben »

Its fairly common practice in craft breweries, usually called top cropping, or krausening. Its especially effective if you are making a new mash every few days, since you are taking prime activity level yeast off the top of the active ferment and dropping them into the fresh wort.
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Re: Looking for more info on DADY

Post by Specman »

Good point Ben on propagation. Think of how much cream is sitting at the bottom of the bucket after squeezing the wash out of the grains at the end, it’s mostly yeast in there. It can be washed and stored in sanitary vessels in the fridge for future use. If you want it to be super active, you could make a little starter prior to the ferment.
[/quote]

Could someone explain how to do what Brian suggested here?

I have used DADY exclusively over my first 8 months or so of doing this hobby, have been sticking to AG washes, fermented both on and off the grain with recent runs On grain. DADY has worked great for me at various temps, but it seems to take 2 weeks to finish as it sits in our 68-75 degree house. Never had a stall and always gotten below 1.000. I finally got my 10L new barrel filled using the same process, and now I would like to experiment with another yeast.

Do you guys think I could pull some trub out of the bottom after racking off the wort, put it in the fridge, and reconstitute it at some point later? How would you wash the yeast as Brian suggested, and how long do you think it would last? Or is pulling off some actively fermenting material better, and if so, any suggestions on process there?
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Re: Looking for more info on DADY

Post by Ben »

Top cropping is best for direct pitching into another batch of wort that is ready to be fermented, the yeast are in eat mode and aren't prepared to be deprived of food at this point, your storage time on something like this is probably more like days or weeks. They can be preserved like this in a lab setting (active dry yeast is essentially made this way) but it takes some special equipment. If you want to separate out good yeast from bad using this method top crop to some fresh wort, let it ferment out fully so the yeast move into their dormant phase then move to one of the other preservation methods.

For yeast storage you can either use a washing method and store in glycerin (long term), slant to plates (long term, best way to build a bank) or just take a quart of trub out of the bottom for short term (up to 3 months is usually fine, watch the lid for signs of swelling). I have also used yeast from a ferment that had been sitting around for as much as a year to build a starter, if your ferments are healthy the yeast will be healthy and can sit dormant for a very long time. Oxygen is the enemy of yeast preservation though, if you aren't going to give them food don't give them any more exposure to air than is necessary.

Washing is basically a process of separating the viable yeast out of your trub, the trub consists of dead yeast, grain matter (even if you Vorlauf clear there is still stuff suspended), excess nutrients etc. A quick summary: you pour off the thin layer of live yeast from a shaken and settled beer/trub slurry, add distilled water, shake, settle then pouring off again until you have a very pure yeast leftover, that can be decanted and stored under glycerin in the freezer (the glycerin won't freeze at freezer temps, when water freezes the crystallization will shred the yeast walls, really hurts viability). Washing or slanting both really want a starter made to get the yeast roused and up the cell count.

There are tutorials available on various homebrew sites. It's worth a web search if you want to get some idea of what each process is.
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Re: Looking for more info on DADY

Post by elbono »

I'm a cheap yeast kinda guy so I just buy more for fermenting.

On my sourdough starter when I want to take a break from bread making I use a method from the King Arthur flour people. Spread some active starter on parchment, let it dry thoroughly, break it into easy to handle pieces, keep in a Ziploc in a cool dry dark place. For longer storage throw the Ziploc in the freezer. Here's the long version of the method.

Would something like this work for the yeasts we use?
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Re: Looking for more info on DADY

Post by Demy »

I'm not a fan of the yeast wash for a number of reasons. The way I collect the yeast (for homebrewing) is to collect only the superficial part of the fermenter usually lighter in color and store it in the refrigerator in a sanitized bottle. To have a cleaner yeast you can make a transfer when the fermentation is still active (and the co2 protects us), so you can separate the coarse debris first (before the yeast settles).
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Re: Looking for more info on DADY

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elbono wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 1:57 pm I'm a cheap yeast kinda guy so I just buy more for fermenting.

On my sourdough starter when I want to take a break from bread making I use a method from the King Arthur flour people. Spread some active starter on parchment, let it dry thoroughly, break it into easy to handle pieces, keep in a Ziploc in a cool dry dark place. For longer storage throw the Ziploc in the freezer. Here's the long version of the method.

Would something like this work for the yeasts we use?
Should, the only issue will be the opportunity for infection. You don't care with sourdough because it's already infected. If you are trying to keep your yeast more pure (without wild/lacto/brett/etc) leaving it out, uncovered to dry is not to be recommended. It would be a good way to store a many generations old UJSSM yeast sample though.
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Re: Looking for more info on DADY

Post by SDEngr1 »

DADY is so inexpensive I can't imagine trying to harvest it. That said between UJSSM or Grain mashes I will transfer the beer and dump another load of sugar wash without any new yeast. I try to replace the beer as soon as I take it out.
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Re: Looking for more info on DADY

Post by Evil_Dark »

I used DADY for most of my ferments. I played also with Bakers yeast for rums and neutrals, both gives good yield and flavors for rum and neutral are respectable.
But now that i'm full throtle in all grain whisky, I noticed some bad acidic off flavors in my white dog, and these flavors don't dissapear when aged on oak. I tried to have different cuts, different grains combinations, etc... and still have this annoying flavor. Now I suspect the DADY yeast to be the source of it. I'll try this week and all grain ferment with a KVEIK yeast, we'll see the result!
I made some whisky with beer kits that didn't gaved me these flavors. I have to check my notes as some of these kits had their own yeast packet included. That may also point out my thoughts on DADY...
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Re: Looking for more info on DADY

Post by BrewinBrian44 »

Evil_Dark wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 8:49 am I used DADY for most of my ferments. I played also with Bakers yeast for rums and neutrals, both gives good yield and flavors for rum and neutral are respectable.
But now that i'm full throtle in all grain whisky, I noticed some bad acidic off flavors in my white dog, and these flavors don't dissapear when aged on oak. I tried to have different cuts, different grains combinations, etc... and still have this annoying flavor. Now I suspect the DADY yeast to be the source of it. I'll try this week and all grain ferment with a KVEIK yeast, we'll see the result!
I made some whisky with beer kits that didn't gaved me these flavors. I have to check my notes as some of these kits had their own yeast packet included. That may also point out my thoughts on DADY...
When you say acidic off flavors, are you referring to stinky acids, "the funky tails stuff?" Or are you talking like a sour taste and smell?
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Re: Looking for more info on DADY

Post by Evil_Dark »

BrewinBrian44 wrote: Thu Jan 26, 2023 12:38 pm When you say acidic off flavors, are you referring to stinky acids, "the funky tails stuff?" Or are you talking like a sour taste and smell?
It's kinda hard to describe. It's definetly an acidic flavor, kinda sour like a wood bitterness (but the flavour is present before oaking / aging), and yes it is similar to cardboard like, similar to some tails flavors. I tried to be very more narrow in the hearts, but this is already present in the early hearts, so that's why i'm suspecting a flavor coming from the yeast.
My Kveik yeast starter is almos ready so i'll be able to remake a identical mash with this new yeast to compare.
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Re: Looking for more info on DADY

Post by Celticway »

I would like to add a few more questions to this topic.

1. DADY is just yeast correct? so if you are doing a sugar type wash you would need to add nutrients right? What do you recommend to add?

2. For using DADY with an all grain mash, lets use example of 20 gallon mash, 75% corn, 15%Wheat, 11% Malted Barley with an OG of 1.071, how much DADDY would you recommend you add? Also would I'm assuming you can just go straight DADY in this mash with no added nutrients?
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Re: Looking for more info on DADY

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Celticway wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2024 11:13 am I would like to add a few more questions to this topic.

1. DADY is just yeast correct? so if you are doing a sugar type wash you would need to add nutrients right? What do you recommend to add?

2. For using DADY with an all grain mash, lets use example of 20 gallon mash, 75% corn, 15%Wheat, 11% Malted Barley with an OG of 1.071, how much DADDY would you recommend you add? Also would I'm assuming you can just go straight DADY in this mash with no added nutrients?
I personally don't add nutrients to my bourbons or whiskeys. But I use bakers.
If you're doing a sugar wash there are numerous nutrients. Everything from boiled yeast to wheat and kelp,tomatoe paste, bla,bla,bla.
The tried and true section will show you what you need for each of those questions. Follow a couple, get the hang ,then play around.
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Re: Looking for more info on DADY

Post by Saltbush Bill »

As above , no need for nutrients in grain mashes / ferments......yeast gets all it needs from the grain.
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Re: Looking for more info on DADY

Post by Bee »

I thought DADY was a relatively generic term applied to yeast strains meant for distilling sold by a number of vendors.
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