First likker run
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First likker run
Just competed my first run.
Here is what I did.
About 5 gallons of spring water
8 lbs of flake corn
2 lbs of malted 6 row
2 tbs of fleischmann's active dry yeast
OG - 1.056
FG - 0.996
I used an amazon pot still for distillation.
Threw out 200ml of foreshots which were 120 proof.
Kept the next 1200ml that turned out to be about 100 proof with no dilution.
Here is some information on the collections. ( 1-6 were all 100ml collections)
Foreshots - 200ml - 120 proof
1 - 115 proof
2 - 112 proof
3 - 112 proof
4 - 110 proof
5 - 108 proof
6 - 105 proof
7 - 300 ml - 101 proof
8 - 300 ml - 95 proof
I have a couple questions/notes
1. Is 120 proof low for the foreshots?
2. Is the overall proof low?
3. The product has a smell that is like an amplified version of the mash. I don't know if I would call it a corn smell but somewhat sweet.
4. Shouldn't the product have a neutral smell to it? Even the hearts ( collection #7 ) still had a strong "corn?" smell.
5. I feel like there are a lot of other congeners but it is hard for me to identify what they are by scent.
6. I really like the product, but since is has a strong scent im just curious as to why it doesn't have a neutral ethanol smell.
Any comments, discussions, insights, etc would be greatly appreciated
Here is what I did.
About 5 gallons of spring water
8 lbs of flake corn
2 lbs of malted 6 row
2 tbs of fleischmann's active dry yeast
OG - 1.056
FG - 0.996
I used an amazon pot still for distillation.
Threw out 200ml of foreshots which were 120 proof.
Kept the next 1200ml that turned out to be about 100 proof with no dilution.
Here is some information on the collections. ( 1-6 were all 100ml collections)
Foreshots - 200ml - 120 proof
1 - 115 proof
2 - 112 proof
3 - 112 proof
4 - 110 proof
5 - 108 proof
6 - 105 proof
7 - 300 ml - 101 proof
8 - 300 ml - 95 proof
I have a couple questions/notes
1. Is 120 proof low for the foreshots?
2. Is the overall proof low?
3. The product has a smell that is like an amplified version of the mash. I don't know if I would call it a corn smell but somewhat sweet.
4. Shouldn't the product have a neutral smell to it? Even the hearts ( collection #7 ) still had a strong "corn?" smell.
5. I feel like there are a lot of other congeners but it is hard for me to identify what they are by scent.
6. I really like the product, but since is has a strong scent im just curious as to why it doesn't have a neutral ethanol smell.
Any comments, discussions, insights, etc would be greatly appreciated
Last edited by cornlikker on Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- still_stirrin
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Re: First likker run
Practice, practice, practice.cornlikker wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:39 amI have a couple questions/notes:
1. Is 120 proof low for the foreshots? <— No, considering the “potential” from your ferment.
2. Is the overall proof low? <— Pretty much typical from the 1st run through the potstill.
3. The product has a smell that is like an amplified version of the mash. I don't know if I would call it a corn smell but somewhat sweet. <— Esters (fruitiness), from the ferment.
4. Shouldn't the product have a neutral smell to it? Even the hearts ( collection #7 ) still had a strong "corn?" smell. <— For the 1st pass through a potstill, it’s gonna have quite a bit of flavor and aroma from the mash. It’s normal.
5. I feel like there are a lot of other congeners but it is hard for me to identify what they are by scent. <— Cuts? Did you make them? Best thing is to put all your collection back into the potstill and rerun it. Make cuts from that.
6. I really like the product, but since is has a strong scent im just curious as to why it doesn't have a neutral ethanol smell. <— Because you’re a ROOKIE. Your expectations are different from your experience. Neutral alcohol is much harder to make than you think.
Any comments, discussions, insights, etc would be greatly appreciated
And keep reading. Read as many threads as you can. Make time to do it and you’ll be making top shelf spirits soon.
ss
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Re: First likker run
when I was making my cuts on my first spirit run the other day I collected small samples as you did. I let them air for 24 hours with a flour sack towel over them. The next day I smelled them one at a time. I was amazed at how different they smelled. I was told to start in the middle (I didn't at first and it made a HUGE difference when I did start going from the middle to the tales etc).
In some of them I could smell something but couldn't identify it. It was sweet (I did a sweet feed mash) maybe a little fruity? But I just couldn't tell either.
In some of them I could smell something but couldn't identify it. It was sweet (I did a sweet feed mash) maybe a little fruity? But I just couldn't tell either.
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Re: First likker run
Thank you for the feedback!
I will continue to practice.
I do really like the taste and smell of the final product. Is there any benefit to making a more neutral spirit other than taste and smell? There is no difference in "hangover potential" between mine and a more pure neutral spirit is there?
I will continue to practice.
I do really like the taste and smell of the final product. Is there any benefit to making a more neutral spirit other than taste and smell? There is no difference in "hangover potential" between mine and a more pure neutral spirit is there?
- Deplorable
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Re: First likker run
Without proper cuts, you will get a banging hangover. Them heads are called heads for a reason.cornlikker wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:32 am Thank you for the feedback!
I will continue to practice.
I do really like the taste and smell of the final product. Is there any benefit to making a more neutral spirit other than taste and smell? There is no difference in "hangover potential" between mine and a more pure neutral spirit is there?
Ironically so are the tails.
Be careful with how much of each you let into your final blend or you'll find out the morning after why too much of either (or both) needs to be avoided.
Not everything that comes out after "foreshots" should be consumed...
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
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Re: First likker run
Is there any evidence supporting the idea that liquor with more congeners increases the intensity of a hangover?Deplorable wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:41 amWithout proper cuts, you will get a banging hangover. Them heads are called heads for a reason.cornlikker wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:32 am Thank you for the feedback!
I will continue to practice.
I do really like the taste and smell of the final product. Is there any benefit to making a more neutral spirit other than taste and smell? There is no difference in "hangover potential" between mine and a more pure neutral spirit is there?
Ironically so are the tails.
Be careful with how much of each you let into your final blend or you'll find out the morning after why too much of either (or both) needs to be avoided.
Not everything that comes out after "foreshots" should be consumed...
Maybe ill have to self test it with mine and some top shelf spirits.
- jonnys_spirit
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Re: First likker run
Double distillation is the typically accepted pot still protocol for flavored spirits.
First distillation - Stripping run
Mash -> Ferment -> Strip -> Low wines - Do this three to four times which will then yield enough low wines to fill the boiler for your spirit run.
Second distillation - Spirit Run
Low wines -> spirit run -> collect in approximately 20x numbered jars aka: "fractions" -> choose your cuts and blend fractions for heads, hearts, and tails.
Age/Oak your hearts. Tighter hearts cut for drinking white, wider hearts cut for aging on oak.
Cheers!
-jonny
First distillation - Stripping run
Mash -> Ferment -> Strip -> Low wines - Do this three to four times which will then yield enough low wines to fill the boiler for your spirit run.
Second distillation - Spirit Run
Low wines -> spirit run -> collect in approximately 20x numbered jars aka: "fractions" -> choose your cuts and blend fractions for heads, hearts, and tails.
Age/Oak your hearts. Tighter hearts cut for drinking white, wider hearts cut for aging on oak.
Cheers!
-jonny
————
i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
————
i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
————
- Twisted Brick
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Re: First likker run
Congrats on completing your first run, cornlikker.
As you continue to read and digest, things will become more clear to you. Like ss has 'outlined', corn likker, or any whiskey, is commonly double-distilled which becomes more refined (pure) with a higher ABV on the second distillation. The product of your second (spirit) run has a much more pronounced aroma and flavor. Note that these two attributes are tradeoffs and as one increases the other decreases.
Also, dig into what a 1.5 distillation is, and what happens when you triple-distill a whiskey. Mostly, if you haven't already, read through this until you have it down. Then go practice!
As you continue to read and digest, things will become more clear to you. Like ss has 'outlined', corn likker, or any whiskey, is commonly double-distilled which becomes more refined (pure) with a higher ABV on the second distillation. The product of your second (spirit) run has a much more pronounced aroma and flavor. Note that these two attributes are tradeoffs and as one increases the other decreases.
Also, dig into what a 1.5 distillation is, and what happens when you triple-distill a whiskey. Mostly, if you haven't already, read through this until you have it down. Then go practice!
“Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore, always carry a small snake.”
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Re: First likker run
Thank you!Twisted Brick wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 11:02 am Congrats on completing your first run, cornlikker.
As you continue to read and digest, things will become more clear to you. Like ss has 'outlined', corn likker, or any whiskey, is commonly double-distilled which becomes more refined (pure) with a higher ABV on the second distillation. The product of your second (spirit) run has a much more pronounced aroma and flavor. Note that these two attributes are tradeoffs and as one increases the other decreases.
Also, dig into what a 1.5 distillation is, and what happens when you triple-distill a whiskey. Mostly, if you haven't already, read through this until you have it down. Then go practice!
All this amazing information in this thread has got me pumped for round 2
Re: First likker run
Welcome Cornlikker. I think it's great you could drink your first run, especially being corn since it gets so thick.
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Re: First likker run
All the answers are here within these hallowed pages. I can promise you this, if all you tossed out was 200ml of foreshots and plan to drink the remainder at 50% after 1-and-done distillation, you're not going to feel all that great the next morning. Especially if you overindulge.cornlikker wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:55 amIs there any evidence supporting the idea that liquor with more congeners increases the intensity of a hangover?Deplorable wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:41 amWithout proper cuts, you will get a banging hangover. Them heads are called heads for a reason.cornlikker wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:32 am Thank you for the feedback!
I will continue to practice.
I do really like the taste and smell of the final product. Is there any benefit to making a more neutral spirit other than taste and smell? There is no difference in "hangover potential" between mine and a more pure neutral spirit is there?
Ironically so are the tails.
Be careful with how much of each you let into your final blend or you'll find out the morning after why too much of either (or both) needs to be avoided.
Not everything that comes out after "foreshots" should be consumed...
Maybe ill have to self test it with mine and some top shelf spirits.
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
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Re: First likker run
That would explain why I had a screaming headache the next morning after a night of overindulgence.Deplorable wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 12:26 pmAll the answers are here within these hallowed pages. I can promise you this, if all you tossed out was 200ml of foreshots and plan to drink the remainder at 50% after 1-and-done distillation, you're not going to feel all that great the next morning. Especially if you overindulge.cornlikker wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:55 amIs there any evidence supporting the idea that liquor with more congeners increases the intensity of a hangover?Deplorable wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:41 amWithout proper cuts, you will get a banging hangover. Them heads are called heads for a reason.cornlikker wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:32 am Thank you for the feedback!
I will continue to practice.
I do really like the taste and smell of the final product. Is there any benefit to making a more neutral spirit other than taste and smell? There is no difference in "hangover potential" between mine and a more pure neutral spirit is there?
Ironically so are the tails.
Be careful with how much of each you let into your final blend or you'll find out the morning after why too much of either (or both) needs to be avoided.
Not everything that comes out after "foreshots" should be consumed...
Maybe ill have to self test it with mine and some top shelf spirits.
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Re: First likker run
I looked up "low wines" and wiki said its a liquor that is 20% ABV.jonnys_spirit wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:59 am Double distillation is the typically accepted pot still protocol for flavored spirits.
First distillation - Stripping run
Mash -> Ferment -> Strip -> Low wines - Do this three to four times which will then yield enough low wines to fill the boiler for your spirit run.
Second distillation - Spirit Run
Low wines -> spirit run -> collect in approximately 20x numbered jars aka: "fractions" -> choose your cuts and blend fractions for heads, hearts, and tails.
Age/Oak your hearts. Tighter hearts cut for drinking white, wider hearts cut for aging on oak.
Cheers!
-jonny
The distillate coming out of my first run was about 50% ABV.
Is this still considered a "low wine"?
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Re: First likker run
Low wines is the term to describe what is produced by the first stripping distillation. Typically run fairly hard and fast. eg; distillers beer of approx 10%abv is stripped hard and fast until the total abv of the output is about 30%abv (25-40% depending on what you want to do). It is often noted that when the low wines receiving vessel is about 30%abv it also starts to get cloudy and the output at the spout is closer to 0-5%abv range... You;re basically stripping all the ETOH out of the beer (wine, wash, whatever) plus water and flavor until the average ABV is about 30%abv... This invariably is about 1/3 the volume of the boiler charge when charged with a 10%'ish "distillers beer"...cornlikker wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 2:14 pmI looked up "low wines" and wiki said its a liquor that is 20% ABV.jonnys_spirit wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:59 am Double distillation is the typically accepted pot still protocol for flavored spirits.
First distillation - Stripping run
Mash -> Ferment -> Strip -> Low wines - Do this three to four times which will then yield enough low wines to fill the boiler for your spirit run.
Second distillation - Spirit Run
Low wines -> spirit run -> collect in approximately 20x numbered jars aka: "fractions" -> choose your cuts and blend fractions for heads, hearts, and tails.
Age/Oak your hearts. Tighter hearts cut for drinking white, wider hearts cut for aging on oak.
Cheers!
-jonny
The distillate coming out of my first run was about 50% ABV.
Is this still considered a "low wine"?
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/Low_wines
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/Stripping_run
Three-four low wines strips approximately produces enough to fill the boiler for a spirit run:
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/Spirit_run
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.ph ... stillation
Some folks like to do one or two strips and then top up with fresh fermented beer in what we might refer to as a 1.5 run - slightly less than a full double distillation...
Main idea is that the spirit get's cleaned up a ton when using double distillation whether it's a 1.5, double, recycling feints in a "triple distillation", or some combination...
Cuts are way easier when dealing with the higher volume of ETOH and the product comes out much better quality as a result. Within those double distillation guidelines there exist numerous ways to skin that cat but the essence of it is basically similar..
Hope that helps and there's tons more reading in numerous threads on this topic which can be quite deep yet also very simple at the same time...
Cheers,
jonny
————
i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
————
i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
————
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Re: First likker run
Thanks you so much jonny. That was very clear. I will dive into those reads shortly.jonnys_spirit wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 2:56 pmLow wines is the term to describe what is produced by the first stripping distillation. Typically run fairly hard and fast. eg; distillers beer of approx 10%abv is stripped hard and fast until the total abv of the output is about 30%abv (25-40% depending on what you want to do). It is often noted that when the low wines receiving vessel is about 30%abv it also starts to get cloudy and the output at the spout is closer to 0-5%abv range... You;re basically stripping all the ETOH out of the beer (wine, wash, whatever) plus water and flavor until the average ABV is about 30%abv... This invariably is about 1/3 the volume of the boiler charge when charged with a 10%'ish "distillers beer"...cornlikker wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 2:14 pmI looked up "low wines" and wiki said its a liquor that is 20% ABV.jonnys_spirit wrote: ↑Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:59 am Double distillation is the typically accepted pot still protocol for flavored spirits.
First distillation - Stripping run
Mash -> Ferment -> Strip -> Low wines - Do this three to four times which will then yield enough low wines to fill the boiler for your spirit run.
Second distillation - Spirit Run
Low wines -> spirit run -> collect in approximately 20x numbered jars aka: "fractions" -> choose your cuts and blend fractions for heads, hearts, and tails.
Age/Oak your hearts. Tighter hearts cut for drinking white, wider hearts cut for aging on oak.
Cheers!
-jonny
The distillate coming out of my first run was about 50% ABV.
Is this still considered a "low wine"?
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/Low_wines
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/Stripping_run
Three-four low wines strips approximately produces enough to fill the boiler for a spirit run:
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/Spirit_run
https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.ph ... stillation
Some folks like to do one or two strips and then top up with fresh fermented beer in what we might refer to as a 1.5 run - slightly less than a full double distillation...
Main idea is that the spirit get's cleaned up a ton when using double distillation whether it's a 1.5, double, recycling feints in a "triple distillation", or some combination...
Cuts are way easier when dealing with the higher volume of ETOH and the product comes out much better quality as a result. Within those double distillation guidelines there exist numerous ways to skin that cat but the essence of it is basically similar..
Hope that helps and there's tons more reading in numerous threads on this topic which can be quite deep yet also very simple at the same time...
Cheers,
jonny