Copper Tube Siphon

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Pato
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Copper Tube Siphon

Post by Pato »

Dear greetings, I am writing this since I did not find a thread in the forum that discusses siphons with copper tubes. The idea came to me since there are only autosiphons with plastic hoses and I want to avoid plastic, and for that reason I thought of buying copper tubes that are easy to bend and make a siphon for my liquors and fill my bottles more easily.
Now, my question would be the following:
-Would you recommend cleaning the copper tube with vinegar and water before passing my liquor through it? Or would just cleaning it with water suffice?
-If I am recommended to clean the copper with vinegar and water, should I finally boil the tube with water to remove all traces of vinegar and other traces of copper?
Beforehand thank you very much
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Demy
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Re: Copper Tube Siphon

Post by Demy »

I would clean it with water and then a little alcohol just before using it.... this to avoid metallic taste after a pass with vinegar which exposes the bare copper.
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Re: Copper Tube Siphon

Post by Pato »

Demy wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 3:28 pm I would clean it with water and then a little alcohol just before using it.... this to avoid metallic taste after a pass with vinegar which exposes the bare copper.
Does the copper have a protective layer or something that is removed when cleaning with vinegar?

I understand that as time passes, rust may form, and in these cases I imagine that it will be inevitable to have to clean with vinegar.
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Yummyrum
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Re: Copper Tube Siphon

Post by Yummyrum »

Yes , always rinse copper immediately after Vinegar treatment …. otherwise , Copper Acetate crystals will form as it dries out if you don’t .
Then you will get green/blue booze as it washes them out .

It should not be necessary to Acid clean before every use . Yes a natural copper patina will form and protect the copper . A quick rinse before use is all thats needed if anything .I use a Copper funnel for most aspects of distilling and I have never cleaned it .
Pato
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Re: Copper Tube Siphon

Post by Pato »

In the forum I had also read that there are those who wash copper with water and baking soda after treatment with vinegar
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Demy
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Re: Copper Tube Siphon

Post by Demy »

Pato wrote: Sun Jan 22, 2023 11:38 am In the forum I had also read that there are those who wash copper with water and baking soda after treatment with vinegar
Yes, this serves to neutralize any acid residues but if washed well it is generally not essential but recommended. Copper does not produce rust but oxide. When copper is polished because it has been treated with acid it may have a metallic taste, so stepping it down with a little sacrificial alcohol keeps you safe.
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jonnys_spirit
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Re: Copper Tube Siphon

Post by jonnys_spirit »

I made a copper whiskey thief. I’ll rinse with water after each use and did an initial citric soak then rinsed well with fores then water. It’s only seen alcohol and water since then.

You could use a bent cooper racking cane with ptfe tube for a siphon. The tubing isn’t cheap but you don’t need much.

PTFE Teflon tubing 5ft- 2mm ID X 4mm OD for 1.75 Filament Bowden 3D Printer -Allen Tech PTFE Teflon Tube https://a.co/d/4bUo6yA

Cheers!
-j
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Pato
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Re: Copper Tube Siphon

Post by Pato »

jonnys_spirit wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 4:43 am You could use a bent cooper racking cane with ptfe tube for a siphon. The tubing isn’t cheap but you don’t need much.

PTFE Teflon tubing 5ft- 2mm ID X 4mm OD for 1.75 Filament Bowden 3D Printer -Allen Tech PTFE Teflon Tube https://a.co/d/4bUo6yA

Cheers!
-j
reviewing the PTFE tube link that you sent me, I even think that I could omit using a copper tube for a siphon, since according to what I have read in the forum, PTFE is a safe material when in contact with alcohol.
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SaltyStaves
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Re: Copper Tube Siphon

Post by SaltyStaves »

Pato wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:57 pm reviewing the PTFE tube link that you sent me, I even think that I could omit using a copper tube for a siphon, since according to what I have read in the forum, PTFE is a safe material when in contact with alcohol.
For cold/room temperature wash, you don't need PTFE. It also doesn't bend very well and a siphon that doesn't bend is a little difficult to fill...
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Re: Copper Tube Siphon

Post by Pato »

SaltyStaves wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:13 pm
Pato wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:57 pm reviewing the PTFE tube link that you sent me, I even think that I could omit using a copper tube for a siphon, since according to what I have read in the forum, PTFE is a safe material when in contact with alcohol.
For cold/room temperature wash, you don't need PTFE.
in what sense do I not need PTFE for a wash or liquor at room temperature?

I know that the use that I have read about PTFE is as a joint for the distillation process, but shouldn't being in contact with alcohol at room temperature also have a safe behavior?

I ask because I want to avoid using silicone tubes for the siphon.
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SaltyStaves
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Re: Copper Tube Siphon

Post by SaltyStaves »

Pato wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:28 pm in what sense do I not need PTFE for a wash or liquor at room temperature?

I know that the use that I have read about PTFE is as a joint for the distillation process, but shouldn't being in contact with alcohol at room temperature also have a safe behavior?

I ask because I want to avoid using silicone tubes for the siphon.
What do you ferment in? Stainlesss steel? You would be in the minority. Most of us are fermenting in HDPE plastic drums. That is days/weeks or months worth of contact. A siphon is a momentary contact for a fraction of the wash that passes through it...

The biggest issue with off the shelf brewshop siphons, is their small tubing. They are made for brewers doing small batches of wine and beer. When you start fermenting tens of gallons, those small tube siphons get old real fast.
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Re: Copper Tube Siphon

Post by Pato »

SaltyStaves wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:39 pm
Pato wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:28 pm in what sense do I not need PTFE for a wash or liquor at room temperature?

I know that the use that I have read about PTFE is as a joint for the distillation process, but shouldn't being in contact with alcohol at room temperature also have a safe behavior?

I ask because I want to avoid using silicone tubes for the siphon.
What do you ferment in? Stainlesss steel? You would be in the minority. Most of us are fermenting in HDPE plastic drums. That is days/weeks or months worth of contact. A siphon is a momentary contact for a fraction of the wash that passes through it...

The biggest issue with off the shelf brewshop siphons, is their small tubing. They are made for brewers doing small batches of wine and beer. When you start fermenting tens of gallons, those small tube siphons get old real fast.
I think there is a misunderstanding, at no time do I mention that I ferment, I make macerated liqueurs, in that direction my question goes.
I macerate in glass, that's why I want to use a siphon to go from a large glass to a small bottle
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SaltyStaves
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Re: Copper Tube Siphon

Post by SaltyStaves »

Pato wrote: Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:44 pm I think there is a misunderstanding, at no time do I mention that I ferment or wash, I make macerated liqueurs, in that direction my question goes.
Got you. In that case, I'm more of a fan of stainless steel instead of copper. I don't tend to let my finished products touch copper. Usually once it leaves the condenser (copper) and enters glass, it doesn't touch copper again. Stainless is easier to rinse and stays slippy and doesn't tend to care how acidic or basic your product is.
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NZChris
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Re: Copper Tube Siphon

Post by NZChris »

If the contact time is short and the copper has some patina, you should be ok.

If your product is very acidic and the transfer will take a long time, stainless steel might be advisable.
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Re: Copper Tube Siphon

Post by Pato »

I understand, however finding a stainless steel tube to make a siphon is somewhat difficult to find or bend.
StillerBoy
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Re: Copper Tube Siphon

Post by StillerBoy »

Pato wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:47 am finding a stainless steel tube to make a siphon is somewhat difficult to find or bend.
Patricio.. you're making life way to difficult for yourself by over thinking the issue.. quality plastic or ptfe hose will do the task of transferring alcohol.. what is misunderstood is using plastic with high temp alcohol, it's the high temp that is the concern..

Many solution have been provided.. here's another one..

So here what I use to transfer.. a piece of quality plastic (used by beer/wine guys) of the size and length required to form a racking cane, and by using a piece of copper wire with the end S shaped to hold in place and long enough to form a curve at the length required, I then have created a racking cane..

Mars
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Pato
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Re: Copper Tube Siphon

Post by Pato »

StillerBoy wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:01 pm
Pato wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:47 am finding a stainless steel tube to make a siphon is somewhat difficult to find or bend.
Patricio.. you're making life way to difficult for yourself by over thinking the issue.. quality plastic or ptfe hose will do the task of transferring alcohol.. what is misunderstood is using plastic with high temp alcohol, it's the high temp that is the concern..

Many solution have been provided.. here's another one..

So here what I use to transfer.. a piece of quality plastic (used by beer/wine guys) of the size and length required to form a racking cane, and by using a piece of copper wire with the end S shaped to hold in place and long enough to form a curve at the length required, I then have created a racking cane..

Mars
I get the point, it's something normal for me since I'm a bit of a perfectionist regarding my hobbies, which can be a problem.

I have seen many liquor artisans who use plastic hoses in their filling machines, which contradicts some topics in the forum that recommend avoiding plastic in any part of the process, such as avoiding plastic funnels.

I think the PTFE hose meets my requirements, to which I might not need a copper siphon and just use the PTFE hose as a siphon.

This as long as someone has no objection not to use PTFE for alcohols at room temperature.
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NZChris
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Re: Copper Tube Siphon

Post by NZChris »

I use PTFE tube, but not for alcohol. It kinks easily and would need a large radius and a wire wrap to support it if you wanted to use it for a siphon hose.

You don't say much about the product you want to put through it, time, ABV, pH, etc.. The more info. you supply the better informed the replies will be.

I use a long copper funnel to put my Sunset Gins together, adding each layer to the bottom of the bottle, but that only takes a few minutes and I've never noticed a problem.
viewtopic.php?p=7585500#p7585500
StillerBoy
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Re: Copper Tube Siphon

Post by StillerBoy »

Pato wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 8:45 pm This as long as someone has no objection not to use PTFE for alcohols at room temperature.
The forum is only here to provide ideas, support and guidance, not to control nor provide permission of your choices.. you have the freedom and freewill of the choice..

Mars
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Pato
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Re: Copper Tube Siphon

Post by Pato »

NZChris wrote: Wed Feb 01, 2023 9:33 pm

You don't say much about the product you want to put through it, time, ABV, pH, etc.. The more info. you supply the better informed the replies will be.

viewtopic.php?p=7585500#p7585500
I want to transfer my firepiss that I make in a 3 liter jar to flasks that I have in storage.
has an ABV of 33%
I don't know the ph but it should be acidic, right?
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NZChris
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Re: Copper Tube Siphon

Post by NZChris »

Copper should be fine for that. Maybe put a 180 degree bend at the top, then push a PTFE tube onto that to give you some flexibility.
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