Treating Heads with Baking soda?

Treatment and handling of your distillate.

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BoomTown
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Treating Heads with Baking soda?

Post by BoomTown »

What’s that all about? Just read someone’s posting that hinted at a treatment of his retained heads with baking soda to glean more usable spirits. I’m completely in the dark about that.

Anyone willing to help educate an old timer?
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Yummyrum
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Re: Treating Heads with Baking soda?

Post by Yummyrum »

It’s been a thing for a long time Boomtown .
To stripped wash ( low wines) you add Sodium Carbonate (washing soda) and its reacted in about 5 minutes, or Sodium Bicarbonate ( Baking Soda) and it takes several days to react.

It reduces the amount of perceived heads so you get a larger hearts cut .

Personally I’m not sold . Tried it a few years ago and gave it up . Tried it again recently hoping for new insight …… and after a few attempts .. again decided it was not worth the bother .

Thats just my opinion
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Re: Treating Heads with Baking soda?

Post by bilgriss »

I don't think it adds much value to a healthy ferment. Maybe if you have something from stressed yeast. Some people report success.
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Re: Treating Heads with Baking soda?

Post by JAMAWG »

I had good results with it when doing a sugar nutral. I stripped 3 batches of sugar was. Added the washing soda. I did let it sit over night. The low wines turned a bright cloudy blue. The next day there was just a little blue sediment at the bottom. Left that behind and ran it. Came out much cleaner and nutral than anything I had done before. I do put a good bit of that on getting better at making washes. But still I noticed a difference. Considering the cost, why not? Wouldn't use it for anything other than nutral.
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Treating Heads with Baking soda?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

That's the first time I've heard of the bright cloudy blue thing.........doesn't sound at all normal to me.
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Re: Treating Heads with Baking soda?

Post by JAMAWG »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 6:37 pm That's the first time I've heard of the bright cloudy blue thing.........doesn't sound at all normal to me.
Well thats a bit worrying.. especially from you! I had mostly seen posts about using washing soda with heads. I guessed at the time that maybe it had to do with the tails. Since I added it to a batch of stripping runs. The color reminded me of the blue tint you get when you leave copper in water and vinegar solution for a few hours. They were the first batches I ran with a new still. After doing a cleaning and sacrifice run.
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Treating Heads with Baking soda?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

I've only tried it once.......I think it worked a litte, but not so much that I bothered again.
Others may have ideas on what caused the blue.
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Re: Treating Heads with Baking soda?

Post by Yummyrum »

Strangely I got the blue thing happen to me too , then the next day I tried it and no blue . I’m sure there is a reason , but I have no idea

I noticed the blue when emptying the boiler . So I’m nit sure if it happened straight away or not .
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Re: Treating Heads with Baking soda?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Yummyrum wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:43 pm I noticed the blue when emptying the boiler
In your case would that not be from a reaction with the copper dripping back into the boiler as reflux Yummy ?
As I read it, in the other case the low wines turned blue once the baking soda was added to them and before they even saw the boiler.
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Re: Treating Heads with Baking soda?

Post by Yummyrum »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 10:18 pm
Yummyrum wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:43 pm I noticed the blue when emptying the boiler
In your case would that not be from a reaction with the copper dripping back into the boiler as reflux Yummy ?
As I read it, in the other case the low wines turned blue once the baking soda was added to them and before they even saw the boiler.
Very likely Salty . I also have a copper element in that boiler as well .

I just thought it strange that one run it went blue , second run it didn’t and the low wines was from the same strip .

Also me and JAMAWG are using washing soda ( sodium Carbonate ) not Bicarb soda ( Sodium Hydrogen Carbonate )

Apparently the washing soda reacts almost instantaneously whereas the bicarb takes a few days to do it’s job .
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Re: Treating Heads with Baking soda?

Post by NZChris »

Do any of you check the pH?

How do you know/judge/calculate what is the optimal amount to use?
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Re: Treating Heads with Baking soda?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Yummyrum wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 10:34 pm Also me and JAMAWG are using washing soda ( sodium Carbonate ) not Bicarb soda ( Sodium Hydrogen Carbonate )
Sorry was just going off of the topic heading.
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Re: Treating Heads with Baking soda?

Post by Yummyrum »

NZChris wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 10:50 pm Do any of you check the pH?

How do you know/judge/calculate what is the optimal amount to use?
No I didn’t . I just used what I read was recommended for the amount of low wines I had . I wasn’t aware that taking a pH reading would help or mean anything .
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Re: Treating Heads with Baking soda?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

I don't think it would Yummy as far as I am aware it has nothing to do with PH....a lot of the more in depth stuff of how it worked was over at Artisan written by Harry.
A fella over on the SD forum has been doing some interesting experiments trying to work out quantities and for how long ,and what works best recently.
There seems to have been a shit load of theory's on amounts to add and for how long over the years.
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Re: Treating Heads with Baking soda?

Post by googe »

Isnt the blue oxidization? Baking soda removes oxides, heads would have oxzides being first out of the still so I'd imagine mixing baking soda with heads woukd produce blue. Or am I missing something lol
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Re: Treating Heads with Baking soda?

Post by Renhoekk »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:15 am I don't think it would Yummy as far as I am aware it has nothing to do with PH....a lot of the more in depth stuff of how it worked was over at Artisan written by Harry.
Excuse the pun but pH is a base of the reactions, and the higher the pH the faster the reactions. Baking soda and sodium carbonate make low wines more alkaline. This causes esters normally present in heads to break apart, freeing the ethanol molecule and turning the unwanted acid molecules into salts that won’t distill (eg ethyl acetate becomes ethanol and sodium acetate). It can also increase the chances of getting a blue tint in the low wines - this can be a reaction with copper sulphate present in the low wines and/or from copper in and around the still boiler.
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Re: Treating Heads with Baking soda?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Renhoekk, it's a long time since I read up on that stuff, but yes this bit rings a bell.
Renhoekk wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 12:58 pm This causes esters normally present in heads to break apart, freeing the ethanol molecule and turning the unwanted acid molecules into salts that won’t distill (eg ethyl acetate becomes ethanol and sodium acetate).
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