Scotch - cuts - oak

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ErnieV
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Scotch - cuts - oak

Post by ErnieV »

I would like a small keg full of scotch (probably a 1 gal keg) and was wondering, should I just add hearts to it?

If that is the case I will need to mash loads to get my gallon of hearts.

What do you do?
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Re: Scotch - cuts - oak

Post by Jimbo »

I just posted my opinion on cuts and flavor here http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 7#p7071201
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Re: Scotch - cuts - oak

Post by ErnieV »

Thanks, reading that was what prompted my questions
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Re: Scotch - cuts - oak

Post by Prairiepiss »

Some of the flavors you are looking for are in the heads and tails. All depending on how you run it. And those additions can mellow and change into something more complex over time in a barrel. But it takes time. And that is something you won't be able to get with a 1 gallon barrel. So you would need to add less heads and or tails. So the shorter time in the barrel can work its magic.

Larger barrels take longer. So these flavors can develop over a good amount of time. Where the smaller barrels will over power the spirits fast if not watched more carefully.

It's all going to come down to experimenting on your part to find what works best for you.
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Re: Scotch - cuts - oak

Post by ErnieV »

Thanks Prairiepiss

So, from what you are saying, if doing 1gallon Barrel then use mostly hearts.

If larger, add heads and tails and leave longer
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Re: Scotch - cuts - oak

Post by Prairiepiss »

Kinda. The proportions of heads and tails added. Should be considered for the size barrel you are using. Not suing none in a small one. And not saying all of them in a bigger one. There is going to be an optimum amount. But only with experimenting will you find out what that is. I would start with small amounts at first. Then add a little more each time.

Keep in mind that if your still doesn't separate them very good. Only adding hearts may be good enough?

Just my two nickles.
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Re: Scotch - cuts - oak

Post by Jimbo »

If you want a small barrel, what Piss says is true, its gonna oak up really fast in there, but after 2-3 runs will mellow way out. So you could keep your whiskey in there longer and longer each successive batch. By the 3rd or 4th you should be able to leave it in there a good long time, and by then you'll have your recipe dialed in. :) I bought a glass wine thief, its my best friend around my barrels (2 5gal). keep an eye on your hooch and when its gettin enough oak character pull it out and continue to age in glass jars.

For aging in glass jars Im partial to oak strips over chips or cubes, charred up and then soaked for 24 hours in water first to pull off much of the tannins and char grime. I dont like chips or cubes cause I think the end grain adds a harsh woody thing. For example, I have a barrel full of 2012 brandy and jars with what didnt fit. In the jars I have some cubes. The brandy in the barrel is starting to taste mighty fine, the jar brandy just dont have it going on, yet? I hope, its a little woody and rough yet.
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Re: Scotch - cuts - oak

Post by ErnieV »

Thanks guys.

It sounds like I am going to have some fun experimenting.

Thanks for the pointers. I wish I could afford multiple barrels.
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Re: Scotch - cuts - oak

Post by CuWhistle »

ErnieV wrote:I would like a small keg full of scotch
So would I.
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Re: Scotch - cuts - oak

Post by ErnieV »

It would just sit so nicely in my kitchen ;-)
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Re: Scotch - cuts - oak

Post by Jimbo »

Hey Ernie, Why not go for a 5 gal barrel, and embark on a mission to fill that baby, it can be done ;-) You know full well a 1 gallon size will run dry in short order, then what, as you tip it upside down with your tongue out, depressed, and a constant nagging yearn for that sweet drop that once was.

120 lbs of malt should do it, after cuts giving you 5 gallons of 63% cask strength ;-)
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Re: Scotch - cuts - oak

Post by ErnieV »

You have a point Jimdo64.

My brew shop sells 25Kg sacks of malt for £32.00 which is 55 Lbs.

If you recon that 120 lbs should do it "after cuts" then I'm going to go for it. That would be done with 3 sacks of malt easy. The only problem I can see is brewing it all. Would be fun doing it though.
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Re: Scotch - cuts - oak

Post by Jimbo »

2 sacks will get you darn close. My recipe here will get you there 40 lbs and 1.5 gallons casked 63% spirit at a time ;) Assuming you use those size vessels and still? Split 2 sacks into 3 batches, 6 stripper runs and a couple spirit run :) http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 2#p7069009 Youll need a 15.5g keggle (keg with the top cut off), a 15.5g still and 2 18+ gallon fermenters. Otherwise adapt to your setup and do your mashes 2 lbs/gallon, details in recipe. 110 lbs of malt should get you 36 fifths of fine whiskey at 80 proof. :thumbup: Or so. Cheers.
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Re: Scotch - cuts - oak

Post by ErnieV »

Here in the UK it's difficult getting a barrel but have found some on eBay that are 20 litres.

My mash tun is 25 litres so can only mash that much at once and my fermenters are that size too.

So it looks like it will be quite a few weekends work. Fun though, cheers.
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Re: Scotch - cuts - oak

Post by RockinRockies »

What's folks take on heavily peated cuts? I'm assuming from the few I've done, is that the smoke profile really comes in late in the tails. I'm thinking of trying to fill a 7 gallon used barrel with Simpsons and Baird's 50/50 to cut down on the price for Baird's heavily peated.

Since the peated stuff is still a smoke bomb at 5 years, think wee beastie, then 2-3 years in that 7 gallon up at 8000 feet above sea level should do ok, me thinks?

I'll keep it in the ground sitting the summer so it never gets really hot, and I'm hoping that will extend the life before over oaking, to get a more full bodied profile. From what I gather, almost all scotch has that waxy/crayon aftertaste which I assume is from very deep tails cuts as they age for so long
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Re: Scotch - cuts - oak

Post by Ben »

I think a 7 gallon barrel is going to have a hard time making it that long, 8000 ft (lower atmospheric pressure) and a dry climate is going to make evaporation extreme (although I bet the proof climbs a little), even in second use I think the oak is going to be intense. Maybe something like a badmo made from a 1/4 barrel keg or big stock pot would do it? I have the tools if you want to give it a go, could even get custom double ended thing going.
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Re: Scotch - cuts - oak

Post by RockinRockies »

Ben wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:24 am I think a 7 gallon barrel is going to have a hard time making it that long, 8000 ft (lower atmospheric pressure) and a dry climate is going to make evaporation extreme (although I bet the proof climbs a little), even in second use I think the oak is going to be intense. Maybe something like a badmo made from a 1/4 barrel keg or big stock pot would do it? I have the tools if you want to give it a go, could even get custom double ended thing going.
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Re: Scotch - cuts - oak

Post by Goose »

I'm first time ageing scotch whiskey in french oak barrels.... I got me 2 x 5L brand newbies and filled one last weekend after cutting and proofing to 62%. I should have the second filled within a couple of weeks. :P

I'd appreciate a steer on the length of time it should sit in the barrel before I either dilute and bottle or transfer to a big glass bottle and continue ageing for fear of over oaking.... from what I've read, most suggest 6 months, but it is a new barrel so am concerned it may be a lesser time, :esurprised: hence grateful for any guidance.

Also after this, ie second and third batches, should I add 3 months on to each subsequent batch ?

Finally, do these (smaller) barrels have a limited life insofar as ageing is concerned ? If so, could I simply use such "spent" barrels in the future to dispense 80 proof (drinking strength) scotch indefinitely ?
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Re: Scotch - cuts - oak

Post by Ben »

Goose wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 1:46 am
I'd appreciate a steer on the length of time it should sit in the barrel before I either dilute and bottle or transfer to a big glass bottle and continue ageing for fear of over oaking.... from what I've read, most suggest 6 months, but it is a new barrel so am concerned it may be a lesser time, :esurprised: hence grateful for any guidance.
Til' it tastes good. A 5l barrel will "age" (load up on oak flavor and evaporate) fast. First fill for me in mine was around 5 weeks. Second fill was around 7. But it is going to depend on your environment. After that I loaded one with Cognac and the other with Brandy, let those sit a while then used the baby casks for finishing other things.

Do yourself a favor, replace the janky cork wrapped bung plug with a tight fitting cork.
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Re: Scotch - cuts - oak

Post by Goose »

thanks fella. 5 weeks is quick... but I'll certainly give it a taste then. If these work out well I'll consider stepping up to 10L or just getting 4 more of the 5L and rotating through.

Noted on the cork, though these ones seem to be threaded with a silicone washer, seems to seal ok...
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Ben
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Re: Scotch - cuts - oak

Post by Ben »

You will want to step up to 10l or (probably) larger once you analyze what comes from the 5l, 10 brings out a product that is markedly better than a 5, and a 20+ starts to get into 6+ month aging territories and an elevates the spirit. Smaller casks seem to over oak and under age, evaporation is excessive... they are fun for experiments and finishing though.

The larger size barrels are also more worthy of home-reconditioning once they are spent.
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Re: Scotch - cuts - oak

Post by squigglefunk »

Goose wrote: Mon Feb 06, 2023 2:44 pm thanks fella. 5 weeks is quick... but I'll certainly give it a taste then.
I think a 5L barrel is kind of tough for "aging" unfortunately
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Re: Scotch - cuts - oak

Post by Goose »

Appreciate the tips. You are tempting me into going for a new 20l to do this properly. I really like the concept of an infinity barrel some day, but it seems even a 20l may be too small This makes a lot of sense topping up 5l a time though I would expect quality consistency to be a challenge...
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Re: Scotch - cuts - oak

Post by Ben »

20l seems to be the start of the sweet spot. It's time consuming to fill one at home distiller scale, but worth it. You can start working on a fill for the next one while the first is aging out. You should analyze how much you will really drink, I am not a big drinker so a 5 gallon fill will probably last me around 12-18 months, so If I have 2 and can get one filled every 12-18 months I have plenty of time to let one age. Build fill stock while aging is happening. I would love to fill something like a 30 gallon some day, let it age for 20 years, but I don't think I would consume it all before I died... that's where the Badmo's with their lower surface to volume come in.
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Re: Scotch - cuts - oak

Post by DAD300 »

Remember commercial scotch isn't aged in NEW barrels... and what was in the barrel before the scotch has a lot of affect on the taste.
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