Premeasured yeast: is this a good idea?

[Steve Broady]

Since I had a large bag of yeast and no convenient way to reseal it after use, and since I decided to make several batches of rum, I had the bright idea to measure out the correct amount of yeast (which I believe also contains nutrients) for my standard 5 gallon batch, and then make up vacuum sealed packs for convenience later.

I’m just curious, was this a good idea? Or have I set myself up for failure in the future. I’ve just pitched gen. 3 is SBB rum, using the second yeast pack. Gen. 1 was measured out of the new bag, gen. 2 was from a pack and seemed to go well enough.

As for the yeast itself, it seems fine, though I have no benchmark to compare it to anything else. I’m not using it in any kind of turbo capacity. Straight SBB rum recipe. I just used this because I had it in hand from early in the hobby when I got excited and thought I needed special yeast for everything. I’ve got some in a BadMo now, and it tasted incredible. The second batch is in the still for a stripping run right now.

[still_stirrin]

… I’m just curious, was this a good idea? Or have I set myself up for failure in the future. I’ve just pitched gen. 3 is SBB rum, using the second yeast pack. Gen. 1 was measured out of the new bag, gen. 2 was from a pack and seemed to go well enough...

It’s dry yeast. I buy dry (baker’s yeast) from the grocery store pre-packaged in 11g packets (in a 3-pack) all the time. They are typically dated with a “best if used by” date stamped on them. Usually, the dates are a year or more in the future. I’ve used the packets with success for years, often with the “use by” dates having been expired.

So, if you keep the vacuum sealed packages in a cool, dry place, the yeast will more than likely work fine when needed. I do, however, suggest properly rehydrating the dry yeast 20 to 30 minutes before you plan to pitch it into your fermenter. Rehydration will restore cell wall integrity so it can sustain the osmotic pressure imposed by the sugar solution.

Also, you can “smell” the yeast when rehydrating and it should smell healthy, with a bread-like smell. It it smells like dry cardboard, then it is not very healthy and you may experience some difficulty with it’s fermentation viability. Good dry yeast will absorb water (rehydrate) easily and quickly, while yeast that is less viable will often sink in the jar of warm water. But, the aroma of the yeast is a good indicator of its viability.
ss

[Laredo7mm]

I buy my yeast in 1 pound vacuum packed bags. I throw them in the freezer until I need to crack one open. When I open a new bag, I do exactly what you do. I portion out the large bag into about 30 smaller doses and each one is vacuum sealed and then put into the refrigerator. It probably takes me a year to go through 1 lb of yeast. I pitch one of the small bags into a 7.5 gallon ferment. I don’t reuse my yeast as it is cheap. About $8 a pound.

I agree with the above advice to rehydrate the yeast before using. My current mashes are cane sugar and DME. I heat my water to about 92F and use that to make my mash and to rehydrate the yeast. I use about 1 cup of water in a mason jar, add the little packet of yeast, let it sit for 10 to 15 minutes, then add a bit of cane sugar (about 1/4 to 1/2 teaspoon) to the jar, give it a stir, and let her sit for 5 more minutes. After that, I add 2 cups of my wort to the jar and let it sit for another 10 minutes before I dump it into the fermenter.

I use DADY at the moment and ferment at 86F. SG about 1.088 and FG at 0.096 in 3 days. I do let the ferment sit for at least a week (total) before running the beer. I haven’t had any issues with the yeast using this method. I usually buy 2 pounds of yeast at a time so when I get around to using the last of it, it has been frozen and refrigerated for around 2 years. In my process, if I don’t see the yeast making foam after adding the sugar and waiting 5 minutes, then I something may have gone wrong.

[Pure Old Possum Piss]

I agree with SS and the other guy too on dry yeast.
They've both got good advice.

Where I live I may be lucky temp wise. I haven't had to buy yeast in years. But I never completely drain a fermenter and if I do, I always keep a couple gallons of the dregs/lees/spent grain and rinse them saving my yeast. Since yeast bud/reproduce in the aerobic/oxygen part of their lives, they will double their colony within hours. And they just keep multipling if you keep them in an aerobic environment. You can put just a spoonful of yeast in a well oxygenated wort and stir hell out of it for the first couple days and those little yeastie beasties will build a colony just as big as if you had dumped a one gal yeast bomb in there. Main thing is once you find a yeast with speed characteristics and a flavor you enjoy, maintain its colony! Don't go experimenting with new yeast, keep your favorite yeast alive and happy. I've got a "Mother barrel" that I have never drained below 30%. I only draw 60% from it, and I just keep adding cooled mash/nutrients to it. Paint stir/whip the shit out of it and the oxygen into it and that wonderfully delicious yeast will work its magic for years and years and...

[Sporacle]

Exactly the same way the shop I use downsize their yeasts Steve

[NZChris]

If I'm doing several generations of rum, I reuse the trub rather than adding new yeast.

A lot of yeast comes in packaging that can be easily heat sealed after opening. I don't bother trying to use vacuum when sealing them.

[subbrew]

Dry yeast if pretty hardy. For years I have bought the 1 lb packs of bakers yeast and put it in a mason jar in the fridge. It will take me from two to three years to use it as you only use a tsp or so for a loaf of bread. I have never had a failure since I started that.

Was doing the same thing with DADY until I tried US-05 on my all grain. Nothing aged long enough to compare taste but the smell of the ferments with US-05 is nice, more grain and "richer" than the more sour aroma I got with DADY. So the last couple of batches I make a small batch of beer a couple of weeks before I plan to to do an AG mash and I pitch the slurry from the bottom of my beer fermentor. I do make a lower hopped beer, such as an amber, so I am not pitching something with a strong hop flavor.

[Bradster68]

Just saying. I buy my bakers yeast at the bulk store. Recently I decided to vacuum seal some in Mason jars. After using one left in refrigerator then opening a vacuumed one the color difference was crazy. The age difference was about 3 months. Not sure when the change in color happened. Just an interesting find

[Steve Broady]

Did you notice any difference in viability, Bradster?

[Bradster68]

Did you notice any difference in viability, Bradster?

Actually no. My most recent AG was one of my fastest ferments yet.
I made a post about it. And... I always make a starter but this time I dialed back my amount. (And used the older stuff) Usually I'm around a gram per litre for my AG .but after reading some.post I figured I was on the high side so went with 15 grams for my 6 Gallon mash. So I don't think the yeast was expired or past its healthy state. And it obviously made no difference at the 3 month old stage.I'm not sure the shelf life of bakers just noticed the difference in color.
So I'm guessing the vacuum sealing does make a difference.
I just thought about your post when I noticed the change In color and thought I throw it out there.
Oxygen is a big factor for things going stale,so I will personally be vacuuming all mine when I purchase in bulk from now on.

[8Ball]

I keep my various one pound bags in the frig. I double bag them in zip locks and squeeze the air out. No issues with fermentations and some are a couple years old. I guess you could portion out a few ounces and freeze the rest under vacuum, but it all depends on your mindset and specific ferments.

[Hillbilly Popstar]

People measure their yeast?

[Laredo7mm]

People measure their yeast?

I do. Why not? I can get thirty 7.5 gallon ferments (1.088 OG) from one pound of yeast. I think it is crazy watching people dump a half pound of yeast into a fifty gallon 1.065 wash. Seems like a waste to me. For that half pound of yeast in a 50g wash you get two ferments. At the rate that I pitch, I could get 4.5 50 gallon ferments from the same pound of yeast.

But to each their own. Do what works for you.

[Hillbilly Popstar]

People measure their yeast?

I do. Why not? I can get thirty 7.5 gallon ferments (1.088 OG) from one pound of yeast. I think it is crazy watching people dump a half pound of yeast into a fifty gallon 1.065 wash. Seems like a waste to me. For that half pound of yeast in a 50g wash you get two ferments. At the rate that I pitch, I could get 4.5 50 gallon ferments from the same pound of yeast.

But to each their own. Do what works for you.

I was just being funny.

I usually just Sprinkle yeast until the whiskey God's whisper stop in my heart. It's kinda like seasoning a good gumbo.
But by all means, there is not a damn thing wrong with conserving your raw materials and resources.

[Pure Old Possum Piss]

People measure their yeast?

+1000%

[Pure Old Possum Piss]

I just don't get it.
If you liked the way your last ferment tasted when you ran it, why add any yeast at all?
When you get ready to run your beer/ wash/ mash DON'T DRAIN EVERYTHING OUT OF YOUR FERMENTER!
That spent grain in the bottom is your yeast colony! You don't have to keep it all, but keep some of it. And if you like the taste of your spirit, don't pitch new yeast, pitch that spent grain/yeast into your new ferment. It usually only gets better with time.
I did a little 20 gal experiment 2 weeks ago. Cleaned and sterilized a cooler and actually bought and pitched some new Bakers. It's what I started with several years ago after losing my old yeast colony so I figured it should taste the same.
Wrong Answer!
It was OK, but tasted like everyone else's so-so shine. Actually, it tasted like shit compared to the yeast I've been nurturing for years. Sorta like that Yellow Angel stuff. But that's a whole 'nother story...
There is more to making a damn good ferment than just store bought yeast and any peticular grain recipe if your looking for a truly tasty quality drop. Temps, store bought and wild yeasts, purposeful infections plus several other variables.
Yeast may be cheap at the store, but the best yeast can only be obtained by taking time and dedication to creating it. Unless some one gifts you a jar to start with.

[Pure Old Possum Piss]

"YOUR Yeast" also gets acclimated to your specific climate so it will usually be more vigorous. The weak yeast in your colony will go like dinosaurs, but the surviving ones will thrive and continue to get stronger over time. Plus they get used to your personalized abuse. If you run high gravity washes/ mashes, the weakling will die off, but the stronger ones that tolerate your abuse will thrive. So next ferment when you pitch these abused survivors into that unfriendly environment, they will kick some ass and make a more vigorous ferment (and make more healthy adapted babies). The ones that survive adapt to your climate and your style of mashing.
I'm tired. I gotta go in for pre-op tomorrow. Having a heart 5xbypass in a couple of days. Still ain't quite right from the heart attack around new year.
If I don't make it off the table, yall keep up the good work. It has certainly been good meeting all the good folks here. And this old dog has even learned a few new tricks from this depository of a wealth of knowledge.
You guys are the Library of Alexanderia when it comes to likker!
POPP

[Saltbush Bill]

Had a single stent put in a few years back Popp.....heart attacks can be funny things........one minute feeling fine then an hour later your on an operating table. Knocked the arse out of me for at least 6 months.....not sure I'm the same to this day.
Hope all goes well for you.
Sorry about the off topic folks.

[Bradster68]

I keep my various one pound bags in the frig. I double bag them in zip locks and squeeze the air out. No issues with fermentations and some are a couple years old. I guess you could portion out a few ounces and freeze the rest under vacuum, but it all depends on your mindset and specific ferments.

Wow. A couple years. I guess my 3 months old stuff has nothing to worry about

[Laredo7mm]

Aha, yeah, 3 months is nothing in my book. I buy 2 pounds at a time. Through one pound in the freezer and then portion out the other pound into +/-15 gram packs and vacuum seal them. I put those sachets of yeast in the refrigerator door and have never had a problem with them proofing and going to town when pitched. By the time I get done with the pound, it has been at least a year. Then another year to use the bag that was in the freezer.

I’ve thought about keeping my old yeast that is left after draining my fermenters but I never have. I like to conserve as much as possible but each sachet of yeast is about $0.30 so I just start with new yeast each time. Seems easier than having to make space in the fridge or some trub. I may try it though if I ever do some back to back fermentations.

When I was doing all grain beer brewing with “fancy” yeast I would collect the yeast, propagate it, and wash it. Then mix it with some glycerine (30% glycerine and 70% water, iirc), proportion it out into little 4 oz jelly jars and freeze it. When needed, I would pull one from the freezer, thaw in Luke warm water, and then make a proper starter with it until I had enough yeast cells for a good ferment. That was much cheaper than paying the $4 per package of liquid yeast at the time.

Speaking of saving money, I just bought 80 pounds of barley to give malting a try. I found a local feed store that carries it and it is all organic. Now I need to build a malt kiln. I also found a source for whole corn that is really close to me so I am going to malt corn also. If it all goes well, I’ll divorce myself from using DME and go back to all grain. DIY malt will cost me about $0.50 a pound as opposed to over $2 a pound for commercial stuff at the brew stores. Malted corn will cost be about $0.25 a pound. Should be a fun experiment anyway.

[Laredo7mm]

I was just being funny.

Right on, I didn’t take offense. I tend to come across as mad or irritated, but I wasn’t.

[JJB11B]

anyone besides "he whom shall not be named" (rhymes with Forge) have good video instructables on saving and nurturing a yeast colony? I would much rather use the same yeast over and over and use the money saved for more grain! also the idea of the yeast adapting to my fermentation style is a huge draw. Not trying to derail here, PM's Welcome