Hydrogen Peroxide for Aging

[FL Brewer]

I age my whiskey in glass gallon jugs with a charred oak stick, which mimics aging in wood barrels to a large degree .... but the oxygen diffusion into the spirit through the wood of the the barrel is missing in sealed glass containers. So, I was thinking, would adding a small amount of hydrogen peroxide into the aging whiskey mimic that effect, maybe in a much faster manner than the diffusion through wood? Has anyone tried it? Any thoughts on how much to use?

I'm considering using supermarket strength peroxide (3% H2O2), but have no idea how much to use, when in the process I should use it (when proofing down to aging strength, or proofing down to drinking strength after aging) or whether it's even a good idea at all. Any thoughts?

I've got a batch of bourbon that I aged with charred, but not toasted oak, and it is a little too tannic for my tastes. I know the tannic flavor of red wine drops dramatically an hour after the bottle is opened and the wine exposed to air, but my whiskey is not doing the same thing. It does soften noticeably after a couple weeks in the bottle after proofing, so I'm thinking my whiskey needs more oxygen than the red wine I enjoy does.

I will do an experiment tonight with some of that tannic whiskey, see if a small amount of H2O2 will oxidize the tannins .... I'll report back to the forum, but wanted to see if anybody else had evaluated this idea.

[Sporacle]

Personally I would just leave the lid on loosely and pour it out then back in every once in a while to aerate, no way would I be adding that to my spirit

[contrahead]

It's a novel idea. It should work and small amounts of H2O2 should quickly dissipate. But it makes me nervous just to think about putting a disinfectant, no mater how mild, into something I would drink.

Your 1 gallon glass jugs probably have metal screw tops; right? You could go to a hardware store and pick up a wood cork or two. No predicting how porous the cork wood is going to be though, if at all. Laying the jug on its side (as done with wine bottles to keep the cork moist and tight) does not seem practical either.

A good way to incorporate some new oxygen into your hooch would be to simply pour it into another jug. Not like a typical wine “rack” which is done gently to leave sediments behind, but roughly, with splashing and sloshing. Whipping and entraining oxygen into the liquid, while also letting entrapped gasses escape. Doing this once or twice in the first year of maturation should produce a desirable result.

[FL Brewer]

But it makes me nervous just to think about putting a disinfectant, no mater how mild, into something I would drink.

The reason I was thinking hydrogen peroxide is because it's such a clean chemical... it breaks down into simply oxygen and water... no other byproducts.

[Deplorable]

You'll dilute the abv.
Simply open the jug/jar and blow across the top to exchange the air, then put the lid/cork back on and shake to aerate the spirit as stated above. I do this whenever I think about it over the course of aging.
Always leave plenty of head space in the jug and leave the lid or cork stopper loose.

[Stonecutter]

Why in the hell would you consider putting something like hydrogen peroxide in your Hooch. Can you really not just crack a seal or leave a lid loose? Why risk it?

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/dr ... n-peroxide

[subbrew]

Give it a try on a small sample. It certainly will not hurt you. As for dosage I would start small, just a few ml and give it a couple of days, try it, add if needed, repeat.

I vaporize hydrogen peroxide and breath it in when I get a chest cold coming on. Very effective at knocking it down quick. Common home remedy, just search for nebulizing hydrogen peroxide

[Stonecutter]

Hell yeah, add some colloidal silver as well

[Sporacle]

But it makes me nervous just to think about putting a disinfectant, no mater how mild, into something I would drink.

The reason I was thinking hydrogen peroxide is because it's such a clean chemical... it breaks down into simply oxygen and water... no other byproducts.

I'm not a chemist by any means but carbon monoxide is simply just carbon and oxygen, just saying

[LordL]

Hell yeah, add some colloidal silver as well

A bit of a difference there.
H2O2 produces water and oxygen. The oxygen will get hold of some carbon from time to time.

I like this quick ageing trial! Very eager to hear the results!

[Stonecutter]

True. From the bit of scabby research I’ve done it looks like hydrogen peroxide “stays good” as a disinfectant for 1-6 months after opening. Of course this is for the 3% strength stuff. I assume how much one puts in and how tight the lid seals would be factors for how long it would take to break down into oxygen and water. Again, this seems like a solution to a made up problem.

[jonnys_spirit]

H2O2 breaks down to h2o and o2. I recently went down a rabbit hole of using it to oxegenate a wort for pitching yeast. At higher concentrations it can be dangerously reactive. 3% from CVS or even 12% food safe lab grade would be a worthwhile experiment.

Cheers,
-

[Deplorable]

True. From the bit of scabby research I’ve done it looks like hydrogen peroxide “stays good” as a disinfectant for 1-6 months after opening. Of course this is for the 3% strength stuff. I assume how much one puts in and how tight the lid seals would be factors for how long it would take to break down into oxygen and water. Again, this seems like a solution to a made up problem.

I agree. Me thinks the OP has too much idle time. He should spend more time mashing, fermenting, and distilling to build up aging stocks. He'll be too busy to think up wild ideas, and before you know it, he'll be drinking stuff that's been aging a year or more.
While idle during mashing and running the still, aerate them jugs, shake the shit out of them and put then back on the shelf.

[Chauncey]

I'm interested in the result of this ...for science!

[Steve Broady]

I am interested as well. I’ve had surprisingly good results with prolonged heat, and it would be interesting to see what other thing a could be done to improve the rapid aging process. I certainly see a place for such shortcuts. Maybe it doesn’t make the very best product, but if it gets you 90% of the way there in 1% of the time, then it’s a useful technique for some situations.

[Stonecutter]

Do you have any ideas as to how your going to start your experiment FL Brewer?

If you add hydrogen peroxide and it gives off oxygen wouldn’t you need to burp the jars every so often? Thus you’d be negating the need for the hydrogen peroxide?
You could use an airlock to do this for you.
There’s definitely experimentation to be had. I would never do this as I use barrels and corks but if I did…the biggest problem I would have is how to determine just when the hydrogen peroxide had been “neutralized”.

[Stonecutter]

I certainly see a place for such shortcuts. Maybe it doesn’t make the very best product, but if it gets you 90% of the way there in 1% of the time, then it’s a useful technique for some situations.

You and I are on very different wavelengths SB.

[Chauncey]

H202 ain't gone hurt you w just a few ml... Maybe leave the lid loose so it can vent?

[Steve Broady]

You and I are on very different wavelengths SB.

Don’t get me wrong. My best is going in BadMos and I have every intention of buying and filling a Gibbs Bros barrel as soon as I have enough product stored up to do so. But for the short term, and especially while I’m still learning, it’s nice to be able to taste and to share something that I’m actually happy with. And if I ever find myself needing to make something presentable with leas than a year’s notice, it would be nice to have the tools on hand to do so. Hence my interest in this experiment.

[Sporacle]

You and I are on very different wavelengths SB.

Don’t get me wrong. My best is going in BadMos and I have every intention of buying and filling a Gibbs Bros barrel as soon as I have enough product stored up to do so. But for the short term, and especially while I’m still learning, it’s nice to be able to taste and to share something that I’m actually happy with. And if I ever find myself needing to make something presentable with leas than a year’s notice, it would be nice to have the tools on hand to do so. Hence my interest in this experiment.

Steve while I understand the experimental thing to age quicker.
My personal experience is to take a narrow hearts cut especially in my UJ and drink that white.
I think your better off learning how to distill a good early drinking product than starting to add chemicals to try and get the same results.
I can only see problems with this technique becoming a thing and certainly would not try it myself

[NZChris]

And if I ever find myself needing to make something presentable with leas than a year’s notice, it would be nice to have the tools on hand to do so. Hence my interest in this experiment.

Don't promise the Seagulls products that are difficult to deliver.
Don't toss them products that need more aging and are nowhere near ready, because you will never build up a decent stock of aged product if you do. Make them some narrow cut Corn likker that is nice young and white, or vodka, gin, etc..

I don't overfill my glassware, leaving at least the top third for some O2 in them, and don't push the cork in so tight that they can't breath.

[lest1]

wouldn't an airstone be more suitable?

or just more time ?

just oxidising spirits may not be the answer to your problem

id love spirits ready to go , but i make alot more than i need and make whitedog and vodka and let surplus sit

new spirits and fresh oak always seem more tannic

[jonnys_spirit]

It’s probably not gonna be the be all end all answer to rapid aging but on the other hand its just water and oxygen lol.

Lean into the turn and give her a spin. Don’t be scared to use your middle finger and a wink while you’re at it

Cheers,
Jonny

[FL Brewer]

Wow, kinda surprised by the emotional reactions......

To address a couple of the objections.

"Carbon monoxide is just carbon and oxygen" Yes, but it doesn't break down into carbon and oxygen when you inhale it. I also wouldn't recommend inhaling H2O2 (but won't argue the empirical data that it helps a cold without other data to counter the claim). Hydrogen peroxide slowly gives up the oxygen when stored and rapidly gives it up in solution when oxidizable molecules (like tannins) are present. That's exactly the reaction that we're chasing with aerating or oxygenating the aging whiskey, or letting that happen by using gas permeable barrels. The unused byproduct of the reaction is water. Of course I would take the dilution of proof into account and use H2O2 as part of the total water to hit target proof.

"Just make enough to age". Doing that too. Trying in particular to cure that tannic tasting batch. My oldest stuff is five years old, and I've got a bunch 1-3 years old. Hell, I've probably go a lifetime supply is I never make another batch.

"open the bottles ....." I do that now too.

Not trying to offend the purists, but I think this might be a useful tool, just one of many in the toolbox. Just because the commercial distillers don't do it doesn't mean it wrong.

The bottle of H2O2 I have is old, gonna pick up a new bottle tonight, will do the experiment and share the results.

[Sporacle]

Carbon monoxide is just carbon and oxygen" Yes, but it doesn't break down into carbon and oxygen when you inhale

I wasn't emotional at all when I posted the above, all I was doing was simply pointing out that what the substance is made up from is not always an indicator of its safety.
I understand the principles of how things break down, that's why I'm confident of throwing a combination of hydrogen and oxygen on a fire to extinguish it.
Good luck with your experiment, when you post that you are going to put hydrogen peroxide in your booze you should expect a few raised eyebrows from some members when the primary concern is safety

[squigglefunk]

much of the aging process has to do with interaction with oxygen molecules... interesting concept

[Big_dog]

Don’t try it after adding it before it deteriorates or dissipates. All I know is a teaspoon of that makes my dog puke up whatever it is she wasn’t supposed to eat.

[FL Brewer]

OK, been away for a while, but wanted to give an update on the experiment. I added 5 drops of 3% H2O2 from a new, just opened bottle of hydrogen peroxide to 10 ml of my tannic whiskey (barrel strength, 120 proof). I did this with two different 10 ml samples, and also made 10 ml control samples; handled the control samples exactly as the test samples except I didn't add the H2O2 to them. Covered all samples loosely with a cork.

After one hour I tasted one of the samples with the added H2O2 against one of the control samples - side by side sips to compare them. I couldn't notice a difference. Added two more drops of the other sample to which I had already added five drops. Left this and the remaining control sample for five days, tasted them against each other yesterday. The sample with seven drops of H2O2 may have tasted very slightly less tannic, but I don't know if that is real, or if I'm tasting what I'm expecting/hoping to be tasting. If there is a real difference, it is very slight. I also noticed another, also faint taste of something else that's hard to describe, it's not something I have tasted before. This flavor too is kind of on the edge of perception, so don't think any real conclusions can be drawn. All the samples were diluted to 80 proof with RO water before tasting.

I work at a university, I'm gonna figure out a way to broach the subject with a chemistry prof before I try drinking larger concentrations of H2O2. I was comfortable with a few drops (probably swallow that much when you use peroxide as a gargle for a cold), but want an informed opinion before I try more.

So, results inconclusive so far.....

[Steve Broady]

Thank you for the update. I am very curious to hear more about that flavor you mentioned.

You might try some triangle tests to see if you can really pick out the subtle differences between spirits.

[subbrew]

FL - Thank you for the report back. 7 drops should be pushing a ml, or 10%. So with no detectable difference you would theoretically need a higher % to have the desired results. I would suggest this might not be the way to go considering the amount you would be adding to a gallon or more of base spirits. Love the experimentation on this forum.